Have The Hawks become flat track bullies that wilt under pressure?

[Sir Why You Little 34,705]

And how do you propose we do that? More aptitude or psyche tests? More beep tests?

What you need to accept is that a bad system is prone to spitting out poor results. We've all seen bad systems in our working lives on a constant basis and the draft is no different.

In the meantime, you will just continue to slag players off who don't come up to your totally unrealistic expectations. All based on a draft pick number that that player never bestowed on himself anyway.

With you, your venom is directed at the club first, then the recruiter, then the player ... then you start carrying on about the player we should have picked instead.

.

DRAFT PLAYERS WITH THE RIGHT ATTITUDE

FFS MACCA

All the failed recruits we drafted were and still are CHOIRBOYS

ALL OF THEM

That is not the fault of the sytem

We the MFC farked up yearly

Edited May 12, 2015 by Sir Why You Little

[Macca 16,173]

DRAFT PLAYERS WITH THE RIGHT ATTITUDE

FFS MACCA

I'm just as disappointed as you or anyone else when a top end draft pick doesn't cut it - you think it doesn't annoy me? Of course it does.

We're we are diametrically opposed is who should cop the blame.

I didn't just start blaming the drafting system we have recently - I've had these beliefs for well over 20 years. Drafting has improved a lot but it will never be what people want it to be.

The Americans have the very same issues with their drafts yet on many occasions, they are drafting players who are a lot older. Busts everywhere yet the same principles apply.

I'm just astonished that more people here haven't come to terms with drafting decisions that go pear shaped later on - maybe they just want to preserve their right to moan down the track

[Sir Why You Little 34,705]

Attitude Macca. You negate ATTITUDE

[Macca 16,173]

Attitude Macca. You negate ATTITUDE

All the top draftees convey the right attitude - otherwise they wouldn't be top end picks.

I still maintain that the recruiters can only go on what they see. What they can't foresee is how good a draftee is going to be 3-5 years down the track. Even the best talent spotters get it horribly wrong on a number of occasions over time - the draft results back that up.

It's an intelligent guess at best (based on games seen, aptitude and psyche tests, draft camp results, beep tests etc etc etc) They've got a lot of information at their finger tips these days and that's why drafting has improved from being godawful to how it is now.

All that and the clubs are still drafting busts.

Perhaps it's best we agree to disagree anyway on this one Wyl - often, we're on the same page on a number of other issues.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Morton at pick 4 is just diabolical. I remember watching his junior highlights at the time, and remembering he looks lie a nice kick of the footy but not much else... I think we all hoped he would be a Robbie FLower type wingman/utility. But he wasnt a competitor and hated contact.

And to make the same mistake 12 months later and take a similar player in Watts at pick 1.. it defies belief.

Thank christ those days are over, but it set us back so far. We will get there and are in a much better position now, but bloody hell we came from a long way back.

I wasn't happy we took morton, but didn't know anything much about him, other than some postors on 'BF'saying he was outside but a strong runner & tall. I sat back trusting in the thought our recruiters knew better.

My preference was to take a key posi player that year as they take some time to develop, & Henderson was my preference with our 1st pick, & Ebert with our mid 1st rnd pick. I knew little of Grimesy.

[Scipio 5,868]

Just saw that article entitled 'We Expect to Beat Hawks: Dawes'.

I think we are a chance but I'm not sure this was a good move. Something like that could easily motivate the Hawks to put us back in our place, so to speak, and make Saturday very painful. Fingers crossed Dawes follows up on his article and clunks a few marks for once.

[Webber 10,178]

We got the Swans on the rebound after a loss, and they put us down. We're getting the Hawks in the same situation. This will be their first 'season defining game' this year. They will be ruthless, and I don't really expect us to compete with that, sadly.

[Harry Plopper 105]

Just saw that article entitled 'We Expect to Beat Hawks: Dawes'.

I think we are a chance but I'm not sure this was a good move. Something like that could easily motivate the Hawks to put us back in our place, so to speak, and make Saturday very painful. Fingers crossed Dawes follows up on his article and clunks a few marks for once.

I don't mind it at all, good to see he is not saying we are going to 'try our best' or have an 'honourable loss'.

I want to see the players demand a 'winning' culture, not a 'good effort, try again next week' culture!!

[ManDee 7,091]

Finish school and wait 2 or 3 years to be drafted playing for peanuts in the VFL or leave school and take a basketball scholarship in the USA?

Why would they play for peanuts?

Don't you think 2nd level clubs would be clamoring to get a Patton, Boyd, Petracca, Brayshaw, Kelly, Bontempelli, Aish, Salem.......? Surely the AFL clubs would be very interested in players playing for their feeder clubs.

Perhaps a pre draft to VFL SANFL WAFL etc clubs, those pre drafted could be put on a contract from the AFL similar to Cricket Australia contract.

[Frosty Demon 153]

We got the Swans on the rebound after a loss, and they put us down. We're getting the Hawks in the same situation. This will be their first 'season defining game' this year. They will be ruthless, and I don't really expect us to compete with that, sadly.

Well we need too!

What one man can do another man can do. Say it!

What one man can do another man can do! Say it louder!

WHAT ONE MAN CAN DO ANOTHER MAN CAN DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SAY IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frosty Demon 153]

And how do you propose we do that? More aptitude or psyche tests? More beep tests?

What you need to accept is that a bad system is prone to spitting out poor results. We've all seen bad systems in our working lives on a constant basis and the draft is no different.

.

I would like to be included on the selection committee for new recruits.

After I have established that the prospect can play I would establish that the player can fight. Likes to fight, wants to fight and has a fanatical desire to play football over anything else in his life. Must have an innate hatred of loosing anything too the point that he is a bad sport. Must never be satisfied with loosing a contest, so that when he does, he doesn't loose the next one.

This is something that is definitely missing from our current testing/assessing of prospects. It is time someone took responsibility for this. I'm going to look into this Ive been looking for something to inspire me.

[CityDee 738]

Everyone attack like Jack viney and we are a goer!

[Macca 16,173]

I would like to be included on the selection committee for new recruits.

After I have established that the prospect can play I would establish that the player can fight. Likes to fight, wants to fight and has a fanatical desire to play football over anything else in his life. Must have an innate hatred of loosing anything too the point that he is a bad sport. Must never be satisfied with loosing a contest, so that when he does, he doesn't loose the next one.

This is something that is definitely missing from our current testing/assessing of prospects. It is time someone took responsibility for this. I'm going to look into this Ive been looking for something to inspire me.

'Nice' draftees often turn out to be ruthless smiling assassins and many 'tough' kids get a rude awakening at senior level. That's my experience anyway - those who make it, often have a quality not easily detected when they're immature teenagers.

If these teenagers were the finished product I'd have a completely different stance.

But all the best with your venture FD

[jazza 1,323]

Well we need too!

What one man can do another man can do. Say it!

What one man can do another man can do! Say it louder!

WHAT ONE MAN CAN DO ANOTHER MAN CAN DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SAY IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you coach in the Colac league in the late 70s?

Ive heard that speech pregame and many like it,still didnt enthuse me,but hey each to their own.

[Frosty Demon 153]

'Nice' draftees often turn out to be ruthless smiling assassins and many 'tough' kids get a rude awakening at senior level. That's my experience anyway - those who make it, often have a quality not easily detected when they're immature teenagers.

If these teenagers were the finished product I'd have a completely different stance.

But all the best with your venture FD

You make a good point Macca. I will include looking for smiling assassins in my criteria. Thanks for your support.

[Frosty Demon 153]

Did you coach in the Colac league in the late 70s?

Ive heard that speech pregame and many like it,still didnt enthuse me,but hey each to their own.

Jazza!

repeat after me.

WHAT ONE MAN CAN DO ANOTHER MAN CAN DO!!!!

SAY IT AGAIN

[Macca 16,173]

You make a good point Macca. I will include looking for smiling assassins in my criteria. Thanks for your support.

All jokes aside, a see smiling assassins or a 'non smiling' assassins all the time in footy - ruthless footy players where nothing is going to stand in their way (these types do of course need good base talent levels)

Unfortunately, we don't have too many of those types at our club but previously we have done. Salem & T-Mac look to have those qualities (hope I haven't spoken too soon with Salem!) but those qualities weren't all that obvious when they were drafted.

Jones is another who maximises his base talent levels. We've a few more on our list who may fall into that category too - but to be a good team, you need lots of these types.

Of course, 'Shifter' Sheehan (the National talent manager amongst other things) will tell you otherwise - all the top prospects are going to be guns according to Kevin - the sad bit is that people actually believe him (or want to believe him)

.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Macca

[jackaub 1,402]

Nice article on Kane Cornes this morning. The coach said he played every game like he thought he may be dropped next week; absolute fanatic

I do not see anything like that desire amongst the Dees. They play like its just a job,very dissappointing IMO

the guys dont look like thay want to play footy enough other than a few exceptions

[Macca 16,173]

Nice article on Kane Cornes this morning. The coach said he played every game like he thought he may be dropped next week; absolute fanatic

I do not see anything like that desire amongst the Dees. They play like its just a job,very dissappointing IMO

the guys dont look like thay want to play footy enough other than a few exceptions

Yep, Roos must be incredibly frustrated ... he's currently wielding the axe when many here thought he may not go down that track. I always saw that type of strategy as a possibility.

But here's the issue - we can't just completely dump our more experienced or established players like we've done in the past - Roos needs to find a way to get them to perform to their maximum. No easy task.

He's got quite a job on his hands - I'd expect him to try and bring more and more experienced players into the club but again, that is easier said than done. Drafting is fraught with danger and then there's all the time and patience involved with drafting - you rarely get instant results.

The solution is to wave the magic wand and bring in 6* 'A' graders - but again, it's just not possible to do things that way. Once again, we need to buckle up for the long haul.

*I believe it is possible to snag 2 'A' grade players in the off-season (either through free agency or trades) What's not impossible is possible and as a club, we need to find a way.

.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Macca

[Sir Why You Little 34,705]

Well we need too!

What one man can do another man can do. Say it!

What one man can do another man can do! Say it louder!

WHAT ONE MAN CAN DO ANOTHER MAN CAN DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SAY IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am with you Frosty

I AM SO SICK OF MFC PEOPLE PLANNING LOSSES

FCUK THAT....it must stop or else none of us will ever see a 13th Flag.

WE CAN WIN. with the right attitude

This and Next Week...& Beyond

with the right attitude.

Put a few Whorethorn bodies on the line

Chip and his Cheap Flag

Give him heaps...Traitor.

[Macca 16,173]

WE CAN WIN. with the right attitude

This and Next Week...& Beyond

with the right attitude.

Ability is attitude though Wyl ... attitude mainly comes from within and it's not easily taught - some players have it, many don't. The best players are generally the hardest workers (obviously with good base skill levels)

Hopefully today we might see an improved performance - long term though (and short term), we're going to need new players to replace those that are established right now (much like many of those who were established in 2012/13 have now been replaced)

Many of our experienced or established players are what they are. Most have maxed out unfortunately.

At least our youth looks to have some promise - I still wouldn't have unrealistic expectations with our youth or throw them all to the wolves though - quite the contrary, our established and/or experienced players need to have the onus put on them. They need to carry the can whether they can succeed or not.

.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Macca

[Sir Why You Little 34,705]

Attitude is not taught Macca

It is encoded in DNA

That is why our recruiting failed so badly for nearly 20 years

Recruited nice respectable Choir Boys to represent the club

Old Dee picked it years ago

He was 100% correct.

[What 18,810]

Cant help but think of Chris Dawes stupid comments during the week that Hawthorn were 'gettable'

And the guy rates himself as intelligent