POST MATCH DISCUSSION - ROUND 2, 2015

[Bitter but optimistic 22,240]

Hogan was fantastic in the debacle. Hard to believe it was only his second game. Not only assured and strong but seems to be able to run all day. This kid could kick 150 ( not this year - I have some grip on reality) if we delivered the ball frequently and well into the 50!!

[Demonsone 2,037]

Just to pose a question... How can Essendon with all the crap that's been placed on them etc able to beat the reigning premiers & almost the runners up from last yr???

Our club must have imbedded poor culture in its DNA....

[binman 42,970]

Being a Canberran I went to the game yesterday. Without wanting to sound like a bitter old curmudgeon... (yesterday was also my 47th birthday so I realise the description probably fits), but... I mistakenly took a call from the club the day before and again tipped in for the raffle thing that I never get any joy from either so that just increased my sense of frustration.

Anyway some rather limited observations FWIW.

Pregame warm ups. Jeff Garlett and Dean Kent need to practice kicking sodas 30 meters out in the V. We do not do the basic things well. I'm prepared to cut Hogan some slack in his second game, but these two are experienced players and to miss what should be absolute gimmes in footy terms was simply not good enough. We go in 27 points up rather 42 points up - scoreboard pressure counts and I've no doubt at half time that the Giants think they're only playing the demons and about how they towelled us up both times last year and believe they're still in the contest and they're right.

Secondly it wasn't so much a lack of genuine pace (which has been addressed somewhat) it was more simply our lack of intent. Not once did a Melbourne player line up a GWS player and sit them on their arse (i'm not talking dirty tactics, just hard contested footy) they brushed through tackles and we simply failed to stand up to their pressure. They ran with impunity through the middle of the ground and were able to dob goals from the fifty because there was no point trying to hit up Cameron who was well and truly beaten by Tommy Mac.

Mumford is along with Sandi is competing for the best ruckman in the comp (probably better in terms of physical presence and importance to his side). I was really hoping when he left Geelong we'd get him. He is easily GWS's most important player. There is no way they would have won yesterday if he didn't play. Jamar was Jamar and he battled manfully, but he wasn't helped because our mids just couldn't get near the ball, he doesn't get a lot of possessions but outside of Dawes who really struggled to impose himself he's really our only physical presence on the ground. I also think it is why Spencil will be persisted with for a while as he is aggressive and physical.

We are a better football side than this time last year and substantially better than two years ago, but we are still no where near having the consistency required. We drop off the pace far too easily and we have too many players who are simply not hungry enough and drop their heads way too quickly. I think we will improve as the year goes on, but I'm envisaging as part of Roos/Goodwin's realistic appraisal of our list that there are probably 5-6 of our regular starting 22 last year that are playing their last season in Melbourne/Casey colours. As Roos said we need more talent and I'd expect a few to be offered up to get what we need. We need someone like a Josh Kennedy almost as much as we need a Dylan Shiel.

Tommy Mac would be one of the best backs going around ATM. He dominated yesterday and apart from Cameron's freakish goal and a couple of low worm burners onto his chest when we were being overrun beat him convincingly. If he continues in this vein he will be a genuine bona fide A grader, along with Salem who is well on track to be as well. I think Hogan is something special, his game for a second game player will probably be largely overlooked, but he is going to be our first genuinely elite player in quite a while and hopefully one of Brayshaw or Petracca (or both) can join him.

And for some perspective an arguably stronger Suns outfit than the one we played was beaten by the wooden spoon favourites at home, maybe we buttered them up for them, maybe...

Great post. Best I've read in a while

[Generation dee 1,336]

It must be between the ears.

Dockers midfield is not quick but they smash you.

It is effort and we had little after half time.

Mentally weak.

How hard is it to pressure and tackle aggressively.

Your last sentence is a question I've asked for years. I've coached underage teams and I've coached senior players, and one thing that I can never understand is how they expect to make up space on a player if they start 1 Metre behind him, be it a stoppage or around the ground. Our players are always half a body behind at stoppages. You watch every Centre bounce where we were mauled, our players aren't in front holding their ground. They are either half a step behind with minimal body pressure, or they are plain missing. Macca is the best example. He has a hand on his opponent all game, giving him the shitz. Viney is another. I just want to see them hunt the ball a lot harder, make sure you're close enough so that your tackles stick and they can't get the ball away. Watching the replay, you see why we get goals flooded 8 or 9 in a row. We do the same thing every time. Do they play tighter when they have conceded goals? No. Do they niggle or try to block their opposite number? No. Do they even bother to start in front at a contest? No. It's the most basic things that this team still can't do and that is why we are opened up more than a call girls legs on a Saturday night.

[Generation dee 1,336]

Just to pose a question... How can Essendon with all the crap that's been placed on them etc able to beat the reigning premiers & almost the runners up from last yr???

Our club must have imbedded poor culture in its DNA....

Say what you want about them and what went on behind closed doors or off field- but that playing group has heart. They play for each other and that jumper and it shows just about every week.

[SaberFang 7,151]

There's no pride in our jumper for most of our players.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

If you can't see that GWS' list is imposing right now, I can't help you.

Calling them a bottom 10 team is not a summary made from footy recognition, but rather a summary based on emotion and anger.

So they're gonna make finals this year? Who out of Hawthorn, Fremantle, Sydney, Port, Crows, Essendon, North or Geelong are they going to supplant?

[beelzebub 23,376]

Well just looked at ladder and realised where we'll finish unless some serious pulling of finger out of arsses is done by both fd and players.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

There's no pride in our jumper for most of our players.

That is the piece i do not understand

I thought Jim Stynes bought that back to the club

Look how hard he fought the ultimate battle....

[Nasher 33,616]

So they're gonna make finals this year? Who out of Hawthorn, Fremantle, Sydney, Port, Crows, Essendon, North or Geelong are they going to supplant?

Geelong would be a good start. They look absolutely pus so far. I acknowledge they've played strong sides early, though.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

That is the piece i do not understand

I thought Jim Stynes bought that back to the club

Look how hard he fought the ultimate battle....

I don't buy the idea that there is no pride in the jumper for a second. It's a cheap shot at the players.

We lacked leadership and the ability to stop GWS at critical times in the game, but a lack of commitment to the jumper? Just not true.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Hogan was fantastic in the debacle. Hard to believe it was only his second game. Not only assured and strong but seems to be able to run all day. This kid could kick 150 ( not this year - I have some grip on reality) if we delivered the ball frequently and well into the 50!!

Hope he wants to stay with us, after his team-mates (most) served up that rot in the second half.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

I don't buy the idea that there is no pride in the jumper for a second. It's a cheap shot at the players.

We lacked leadership and the ability to stop GWS at critical times in the game, but a lack of commitment to the jumper? Just not true.

Happens too often Wise...

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

Just to pose a question... How can Essendon with all the crap that's been placed on them etc able to beat the reigning premiers & almost the runners up from last yr???

Our club must have imbedded poor culture in its DNA....

Or maybe they just got their hands on some really good undetectable peptides.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Melbourne will be ok. Lots of reality checking to be had.

Two steps fwd..i GIANT step back.

Everyone involved needs to be back at the drawing board.

Players failed and coaching failed the players on Sat. The club failed its believers.

Not all is lost by any means. I had many suppositions dispensed with by this game.

Dogs are better

Giants are better

Saints try harder.

The more we've tried to change the more we've stayed the same...inconsistent teasing pretenders.

Lets see how good this FD is.

[chook fowler 19,459]

There's no pride in our jumper for most of our players.

Don't believe that for a minute. The on-field rallying when someone gets a goal or is the victim of an unfair bump is the best it's been for years. There is no reason not to feel the club isn't on the right track.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Don't believe that for a minute. The on-field rallying when someone gets a goal or is the victim of an unfair bump is the best it's been for years. There is no reason not to feel the club isn't on the right track.

I agree the club is on the right track, but when you look at a team like Essendon and their never-say-die attitude, you realise how far we have to go. Our players go to water and drop their heads at the first sign of pressure. We would've lost last week were it not for Ablett's cockup and H's inspiring goal.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

There's no pride in our jumper for most of our players.

That is the piece i do not understand

I thought Jim Stynes bought that back to the club

Look how hard he fought the ultimate battle....

There hasn't been a combative element in this club since the Northey era.

[grazman 7,436]

There hasn't been a combative element in this club since the Northey era.

Maybe... I was at the 88 GF... like 2000 very little combat put up by the majority of players that day.

[Qwerty30 196]

Great post. Best I've read in a while

Totally agree binman.

I cant believe it has not generated more comment.

Very perceptive post that has been lost in all the petty nitpicking.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Maybe... I was at the 88 GF... like 2000 very little combat put up by the majority of players that day.

The 1988 Hawthorn team was immense....unbelievable.

In 2000, they got punched up early by Wallis and no-one stood up.

[Tyson_Viney_Toumpas 269]

What infuriates me is, even the Saints & Bulldogs kids are believing in theirselves! That really annoys me greatly.

And we keep making the same excuses for kids who've been at the club longer! Something just doesn't add up to me.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Its the 'old boys'. Kids like Hogan, McDonald, Brayshaw, Viney, Salem, (as good as a bunch as you will find) completely let down by their older team mates. Pathetic. ( Impact and influence on game of Vince , Dawes, Dunne, Garland, Jetta, Jamar after half time was zero). Whilst Crossy was involved to some degree in first half and I would never complain about his desire , I think his legs are failing him and also thought this last week when GGS kicked to his breaking opponent on kick ins. Jamar is cooked and surely its time for Gawn to takeover or we have made another recruitment mistake. So on rolls next week. Some on here used to complain it wasn't the players , it was the development thereof. Nup. Its the players.

[Coq au vin 755]

Its the 'old boys'. Kids like Hogan, McDonald, Brayshaw, Viney, Salem, (as good as a bunch as you will find) completely let down by their older team mates. Pathetic. ( Impact and influence on game of Vince , Dawes, Dunne, Garland, Jetta, Jamar after half time was zero). Whilst Crossy was involved to some degree in first half and I would never complain about his desire , I think his legs are failing him and also thought this last week when GGS kicked to his breaking opponent on kick ins. Jamar is cooked and surely its time for Gawn to takeover or we have made another recruitment mistake. So on rolls next week. Some on here used to complain it wasn't the players , it was the development thereof. Nup. Its the players.

gawn is useless.

[grazman 7,436]

The 1988 Hawthorn team was immense....unbelievable.

In 2000, they got punched up early by Wallis and no-one stood up.

Yes they were, and I'm not suggesting we should have won, by any stretch of the imagination, but the story of our club...

we failed to put on scoreboard pressure when we had the opportunity, stopped believing and ran up the white flag way too early.

Jimma to his credit didn't stop competing all day, but too many team mates simply didn't want to apply physical pressure.

In a similar vein I thought the unsung hero or 2000 was Matty Collins who put his body on the line to fly the flag.

Edited April 12, 2015 by grazman