THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL

[KingDingAling 3,752]

OK, so to cheat without any team penalty as well as no player's penalty just don't self-report.

The team was fined and lost quality draft picks. Hird lost his job for 12 months.

The players were made out to be the victims, but that is a broad societal problem.

Unfortunately we live in a time where victims are exempt from taking responsibility for their own actions, this isn't an AFL problem - but a societal problem.

So while I agree with you that the players should've accepted responsibility for what entered their body - I am not one bit surprised it wasn't a focus. We just don't live in that world.

[sue 9,096]

If you need a laugh:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-31/unrepentant-dank-foreshadows-more-legal-action/6363252

[Deecisive 1,709]

Have you considered the possibility that ASADA didn't have the evidence? Or is the only rational explanation in your mind that the judge was corrupt?

Yes I have heard a fair bit of the evidence and believe joining the dots up and believe they are guilty, that no sport scientist trialling stuff to make himself famous does not keep meticulous records. I don't believe clubs spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on programs that they don't understand. there is a think called justice and there is a thing called the law. The people you select to dispense justice are different to the people you choose to dispense law.

[titan_uranus 24,970]

Corrupt may be too strong a word. But I repeat: would you trust the judgment and biases of anyone who let Barry Hall off so he could play in that grand final? I don't.

David Jones was the Chairman of that Tribunal, he wasn't on the jury. The jury decided that case.

[KingDingAling 3,752]

If you need a laugh:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-31/unrepentant-dank-foreshadows-more-legal-action/6363252

If the players weren't guilty and Dank is confident about that - then were is the documentation. Why didn't he testify? Why didn't Charter testify..

Dank is just using this platform to gain back credibility - but it's shot. I don't know if the AFL have banned him, I cannot remember, but I don't think there is a sporting code that would touch Steve Dank. His actions have resulted in him being unemployable, this saga has hit Dank in the hip pocket, he is done now. There is no coming back from this.

What were are seeing in this article is a bloke who has nothing to lose - throwing stones at the AFL because they didn't get an outcome.

[bing181 9,193]

How any Essendon supporter could think that this is an ideal outcome is beyond me. Less than ideal result, especially as the Tribunal rejected the "they were injected with legal Thymosin" argument.

As someone else commented, would have been better that they'd been found guilty and got a slap on the wrist punishment than what we have now. This does not bring closure.

[Earl Hood 6,082]

Corrupt may be too strong a word. But I repeat: would you trust the judgment and biases of anyone who let Barry Hall off so he could play in that grand final? I don't.

I played tennis with Jonesy for a number of years, albeit quite some time ago when we could both cover the court much better than we could hope to these days but he was a straight shooter back then I thought. Unlikely to have changed his values markedly I think.

[sue 9,096]

David Jones was the Chairman of that Tribunal, he wasn't on the jury. The jury decided that case.

yeah, we know the workings of the AFL Tribunal are kosher. LOL

[sue 9,096]

I played tennis with Jonesy for a number of years, albeit quite some time ago when we could both cover the court much better than we could hope to these days but he was a straight shooter back then I thought. Unlikely to have changed his values markedly I think.

Sorry, I judge him by his actions, not if someone found him a good bloke on the tennis court x years ago.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Wade Lees replied to my tweet he said "if Asada don't appeal, you will hear my opinion"....interesting

Edited March 31, 2015 by The Devil Inside

[titan_uranus 24,970]

yeah, we know the workings of the AFL Tribunal are kosher. LOL

Can you name one time it has been corrupt?

Sorry, I judge him by his actions, not if someone found him a good bloke on the tennis court x years ago.

Again - what 'actions'? He didn't find Barry Hall guilty, so you're wrong on that one. Got anything else?

Wade Lees replied to my tweet he said "if Asada don't appeal, you will hear my opinion"....interesting

Not hard to see why he'd be upset. But every case differs. Once the reasons come out, it'll be easier to see what, if any, differences there were in his case compared to this one.

[binman 42,616]

Sorry, I judge him by his actions, not if someone found him a good bloke on the tennis court x years ago.

Oh please - judge him by his actions? And what might those actions be? Clearing Barry hall and efc players? Edited March 31, 2015 by binman

[Moonshadow 17,675]

So in 2013 Essendon self reported that there was nothing to report?

[sue 9,096]

Oh please - judge him by his actions? And what might those actions be? Clearing Barry hall and efc players?

Like everyone else I don't know the details of the EFC case. I was referring to the Barry Hall case where blind Freddy viewing the video of Hall's hit knows that he should have been rubbed out if the AFL Tribunal ran a kosher process. But there was a star player and a GF in prospect.

Any of you blokes care to speculate why he got off then?

[biggestred 5,014]

i want to know why the tribunal disregarded a player saying he was told he was given thymosin, even after they agreed that TB4 was the thymosin in question?

was the player lying?

in addition, what did the afl tribunal think Dank was going to do with the TB4 if he got it from alavi but not in his capacity as an essendon representative?

did it just magically disappear and another thymosin magically appear?

was dank lying to the player about what he was given?

[hemingway 7,615]

Has today's decision unhinged some previously sensible and articulate posters. Some of the stuff I have been reading on this topic post decision is ridiculous. I know you are intelligent and sensible people most of the time but this topic has got to you. Anger is winning over rationality.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Has today's decision unhinged some previously sensible and articulate posters. Some of the stuff I have been reading on this topic post decision is ridiculous. I know you are intelligent and sensible people most of the time but this topic has got to you. Anger is winning over rationality.

I'd say influence, self-preservation and perception have won today Ernie.

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

I will be interested in the statement from ASADA tomorrow and I am puzzled by an article from R Masters on 28th October 2014 which includes that Mr McDevitt had a trip

overseas to Montreal and Paris in relation to the above subject in The Age I think.

I just can't put my finger on it yet.

[titan_uranus 24,970]

So in 2013 Essendon self reported that there was nothing to report?

No, they self-reported that they didn't know what had gone on and potential breaches had taken place.

They were right. They still don't know what was injected (Hird admitted that today). They broke AFL rules.

The players didn't self-report, the club did. The club wasn't found not guilty today, the players were.

Like everyone else I don't know the details of the EFC case. I was referring to the Barry Hall case where blind Freddy viewing the video of Hall's hit knows that he should have been rubbed out if the AFL Tribunal ran a kosher process. But there was a star player and a GF in prospect.

Any of you blokes care to speculate why he got off then?

The jury found him guilty, you'd have to ask them (Emmett Dunne, Richard Loveridge and Wayne Schimmelbusch).

You have no substance to any allegation that David Jones did anything wrong.

i want to know why the tribunal disregarded a player saying he was told he was given thymosin, even after they agreed that TB4 was the thymosin in question?

was the player lying?

in addition, what did the afl tribunal think Dank was going to do with the TB4 if he got it from alavi but not in his capacity as an essendon representative?

did it just magically disappear and another thymosin magically appear?

was dank lying to the player about what he was given?

Just because a player said Dank told him it was Thymosin doesn't mean the thing actually was Thymosin. We'll have to see the full reasons to see the context behind the 'no probative value' statement, but the fact that a player said 'Dank told me it was Thymosin' doesn't make ASADA's case.

I'm wary of reading too much into the snippets in The Age's article without the full reasons. Hopefully they shed more light.

Edited March 31, 2015 by titan_uranus

[SaberFang 7,151]

Funny how all the leaks in the immediate aftermath of the case pointed to very bad news for the players, then late last week all the pro-Essendon commentators began gleefully proclaiming that they expected a non-guilty verdict.

This has been one large charade, and the AFL were pulling all the strings. They know ASADA/WADA can/will go above them to the CAS, but that will now paint them as the "bad guys" for dragging this on even further. Meanwhile, the AFL can rub their hands of it and say they let the players off, thus avoiding any scorn from the 'powerful' Essendon supporter base.

Funny how many press conferences were ready to go almost immediately following the verdict. You're a fool if you think the key players here weren't entirely aware of the outcome long before today's hearing.

[Sir Why You Little 36,956]

Funny how all the leaks in the immediate aftermath of the case pointed to very bad news for the players, then late last week all the pro-Essendon commentators began gleefully proclaiming that they expected a non-guilty verdict.

This has been one large charade, and the AFL were pulling all the strings. They know ASADA/WADA can/will go above them to the CAS, but that will now paint them as the "bad guys" for dragging this on even further. Meanwhile, the AFL can rub their hands of it and say they let the players off, thus avoiding any scorn from the 'powerful' Essendon supporter base.

Funny how many press conferences were ready to go almost immediately following the verdict. You're a fool if you think the key players here weren't entirely aware of the outcome long before today's hearing.

I think this is highly plausible...after reading it 3 times to make sure.

There is just no way this whole saga can be put to bed without ANY of Danks records or Testimony

It simply must go to WADA

[SaberFang 7,151]

Also note the carefully orchestrated media circus by the Murdoch press. Apparently, it's all over now! Gillon, Hird, Little, Jobe & the playing group and the AFLPA... every one of them painting a picture that this dark saga is finally over, and encouraging all fans to move on and get excited about football again. This drugs rubbish is over, folks! Perfectly painting the scene to make ASADA/WADA look quite the bad guys when they appeal, even though all they're trying to achieve is true justice for an illegal drugs program. Fans will be enraged at them for resurrecting the saga, especially after all the key parties have come out asking for us to move forward with our lives. Masterful manipulation of public sentiment by the AFL here.

It staggers me that Essendon's company line continues to be the walking contradiction, "we have absolutely no idea what the players were given, but we know for a fact it wasn't illegal!" Do they actually take us for idiots? I'll bet they didn't provide a shred of evidence to this tribunal as to what ingredients were injected, either. It was a total coincidence that the dosages correlated perfectly with the recommended dosages for TB4. Yep, pure coincidence.

Just ask yourself, why do so many of Essendon's actions since 2012 make absolutely no sense in the light of a non-guilty verdict? Self reporting a drugs program, rapidly turning over their player list, constantly delaying ASADA's case, endless appeals to suppress evidence and prevent SCN/IN's being issued, orchestrating an unprecedented anti-ASADA propaganda campaign in the Murdoch press, etc.

BECAUSE THEY'RE GUILTY.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Lamashtu

[Dees2014 2,377]

Guys I'm back....

I read some of the stuff on here and couldn't help myself from commenting.

First can I say, yesterday's result was totally predictable. I predicted it many times in previous posts. It is the first step in a number we are about to go through. By the way I have previously said there is no way the an AFL Tribunal will find in favour of ASADA. The AFL is not going to allow their own tribunal to shoot them in the foot, in spite of their protestations of independence. It has always been and always will be a tribunal,under the control of the AFL. Last time I wrote that in here there were howls of outrage that I would dare to impune the integrity of the former judges on the panel, who are paid two or three times more by the AFL than they would have been as judges. Of course they are going to find in favour of their employers, and meet the enormous political pressure from all sides just wishing this would go away. It will not.

The next step is that ASADA will appeal to the AFL appeals tribunal - a bit like soviet dissident appealing to the soviet Central committee. Nothing will come of it, which means WADA will step in and take it to CAS. This may take several months but it will happen. We just need to be patient.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Might not wada just go straight to the CAS ?

Do they actually need asada to be knocked back.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Might not wada just go straight to the CAS ?

Do they actually need asada to be knocked back.

As I understand it that is the process yes. One step at a time and all that. Generally WADA relies on their local affiliate to execute, when this is exhausted and they believe the code has not been properly enforced, then they take it to CAS.