This height debate is so [censored] stupid.

Snidey Whiplash and Dash Ribrock were 192 and 193cms respectively when they played for Manatang Fourths in '68 but I don't know what they are now...

Snidey Whiplash and Dash Ribrock were 192 and 193cms respectively when they played for Manatang Fourths in '68 but I don't know what they are now...

Six foot under?

Little write up on Mccartin from a couple days ago lists him at 194cm.

http://madmondayshow.com/2014/10/26/patrick-mccartin-player-profile/

and Brayshaw for those that are interested

http://madmondayshow.com/2014/08/11/angus-brayshaw-player-profile/

Height is one thing... but I’d more interested in their shoulder spans... seems the players being referred to are broad hence more better able to protect the drop zone / marks. Cook, narrow shoulders, fitzy, narrow, daws, broad, niets, broad, fev, broad... McCartin and Hoags both seem on the broader side. Breadth also = mass and strength through the contest?

Thoughts? Is this a better attribute than height?

wasn't Allen Jakovich only 187 cm's? Hell i think Gary Ablett Snr may have been around that too

I know the game has changed but to say a 193 player isn't tall enough to be a key forward is just silly

What happened to the mantra about it being all about "the midfield, stupid"?

It wasn't so long ago that Roosy was saying we were looking at getting mids, mids, mids with our early picks and now, apart from Brayshaw it's McCartin, Wright or Lever and none of the players we picked up in the trades was a genuine mid either, let alone a top liner in this division.

What happened to the mantra about it being all about "the midfield, stupid"?

It wasn't so long ago that Roosy was saying we were looking at getting mids, mids, mids with our early picks and now, apart from Brayshaw it's McCartin, Wright or Lever and none of the players we picked up in the trades was a genuine mid either, let alone a top liner in this division.

It may still be Petracca if St. Kilda opt for McCartin with their first pick.

Height is one thing... but Id more interested in their shoulder spans... seems the players being referred to are broad hence more better able to protect the drop zone / marks. Cook, narrow shoulders, fitzy, narrow, daws, broad, niets, broad, fev, broad... McCartin and Hoags both seem on the broader side. Breadth also = mass and strength through the contest?

Thoughts? Is this a better attribute than height?

Yep agree which is why he is so imposing in one on ones! Double teamed he still takes "PACK GRABS" Who else in our team is capable of doing that consistently as a forward?

Plus at 194 Cmon Dees grab him and develop a great spine in years to come FROST - MC DONALD - DAWES/ HOGAN - MC CARTIN

And if we secure mids Brayshaw and Newton together with the improvement of Tyson and rotational combo of Pigdog, Vince, Michie, Jones, gives real reason for optimism! Add the rebound of Lamumba, the X factor of Howe either forward or back, plus proven crumber in Garlett this team will be potentially sound, up and about and dangerous!

My goodness, can't believe I'm in agreement with fence.

Brayshaw and McCartin or Wright if Petracca is gone. No 'reaching' for a mid who's hovering around the 5-10 mark of best available.

And certainly no picking up an underage key defender who's coming off a knee reco who thinks he might play as a mid but has never done so.

Best available. Draft for talent, trade for need.

A good mate of mine who's son plays for the Western Jets says we should stay away from Brayshaw and McCartin.

He sees a lot of them and reckons they are both too slow, and have very good players around them who give it to them a lot.

He believes Petracca and Wright are the pick of the bunch, then Laverde and Lever.

He said Wright was very good in a terrible team , who's skills were poor and even though they didn't kick it to him properly he still found plenty of the ball for a big man and is a marking machine.

My goodness, can't believe I'm in agreement with fence.

Brayshaw and McCartin or Wright if Petracca is gone. No 'reaching' for a mid who's hovering around the 5-10 mark of best available.

And certainly no picking up an underage key defender who's coming off a knee reco who thinks he might play as a mid but has never done so.

Oh lord that makes two of us in terms of agreement with PF.. What is the world coming to.

In all honesty im slowly coming to terms that McCartin at the dees wouldn't be a bad selection at all.

At the moment our two best forwards are Dawes and Hogan. It is a sad reality that a kid that has played zero AFL games, struggled all year with a back injury is still is probably our number 1 forward... This is where McCartin is pretty important. Get him into the system to work alongside Dawes who probably has one of the biggest work rate in the AFL along with Riewoldt. Strap Patty next to Dawes all pre season and tell him to follow him every where, learn the good habits and see what it takes to become a good forward.

As it stand he is 194cm and 95kg. By next year come round one he could be up to 98kg and potentially grow a centimeter or two. He is ready made for senior level. He is not in a Jack Watts situation where he will be developing a body and getting a feel for the big boys while we wait 7 years for him to put on weight and show some aggression (still waiting). Physically ready to go and that's what we need now.

I remember how demonland was a wreck around the time we missed out on Jack Darling because we all knew he was physically ready. He came out in his first year and kicked 24 goals.. Id take that any day of the week! Tom Hawkins played 9 games in his first year and kicked 12.10 that's 22 scoring shorts for a first year forward. Again il take that!

We also need to someone to take over from Dawes in about 2 to 4 years time. He will be cherry ripe by then.

Hogan at CHF and big Patty at FF, you could see that on the team sheet for the next 10 years. As much as we need mids I think this is too much of a good opportunity to pass on a good old fashion traditional forward since the great David Neitz.

We tried with Newton it didn't work, Tried with Watts no luck. Mitch Clark no good aswell.

Brayshaw and Newton are ready made midfielders which will be a bonus for us. But McCartin is the icing on the cake.

A good mate of mine who's son plays for the Western Jets says we should stay away from Brayshaw and McCartin.

He sees a lot of them and reckons they are both too slow, and have very good players around them who give it to them a lot.

He believes Petracca and Wright are the pick of the bunch, then Laverde and Lever.

He said Wright was very good in a terrible team , who's skills were poor and even though they didn't kick it to him properly he still found plenty of the ball for a big man and is a marking machine.

Brayshaw recorded a 2.82 for the 20m sprint. Bloody hell this reminds me of when everyone was saying Wines is too slow, don't pick him blah blah bah. Brayshaw is on par with Wines and Dom Tyson in terms of that his first 20m are quick but also you don't have to have lighting pace as long as you get to each contest. Which Brayshaw does.

Another thing is your mate clearly has no idea. Brayshaw doesn't let others give it to him he goes and gets it himself. He is a hunter of the ball much like Wines and Tyson. Last year Brawyshaw laid a staggering 20 tackles against the ,Murray Bushrangers.

While Wright is a good player many experts have said he is pretty soft. Listening to a podcast by Cal Twomey and he even mentioned that Wright needs to get some physicality into him. If a big 203cm 100kg bloke cant do that then that is a bit of an issue. Plus we have enough soft players in our team. Time to recruit brute strength and grunt. Something Brayshaw and McCartin have.

I personally think your mate is just full of [censored].

But McCartin is the icing on the cake.

I love icing.

Lovely sentiment Dazzle.

I think that just because the bloke may have seen a lot of junior football, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's a good judge of talent, or how it will develop in the fulltime professional AFL environment.

Brayshaw is a lock in my opinion.

My goodness, can't believe I'm in agreement with fence.

Brayshaw and McCartin or Wright if Petracca is gone. No 'reaching' for a mid who's hovering around the 5-10 mark of best available.

And certainly no picking up an underage key defender who's coming off a knee reco who thinks he might play as a mid but has never done so.

'Reaching' for a mid in the 5-10 range with an earlier pick could have landed us Dangerfield or Rioli in 2007, and Rich or Sidebottom in 2008.

Is that 'reaching'?

The best kids are just that - kids.

Yep, and picking 'best available' could've ensured no Molan, Gysberts, Tapscott, Cook nightmares.

Best available, every time, not drafting for perceived needs.

'Reaching' for a mid in the 5-10 range with an earlier pick could have landed us Dangerfield or Rioli in 2007, and Rich or Sidebottom in 2008.

Is that 'reaching'?

The best kids are just that - kids.

So what would you do?

Take a mid you rated between 5 and 10 or take the bloke you rated 3?

I'd take the bloke I rated 3.

'Reaching' for a mid in the 5-10 range with an earlier pick could have landed us Dangerfield or Rioli in 2007, and Rich or Sidebottom in 2008.

Is that 'reaching'?

The best kids are just that - kids.

You're putting forward an argument to download picks 1, 2 or 3 for a player at 9, 10 or 11 Tyson/Salem style. History shows you're right, we're just as likely to find a quality player lower in the top 10 than higher in the top 10 but once the trade period is over and you've got a top 3 pick, surely you back yourself in and pick who you consider to be the best possible player.

A good mate of mine who's son plays for the Western Jets says we should stay away from Brayshaw and McCartin.

He sees a lot of them and reckons they are both too slow, and have very good players around them who give it to them a lot.

He believes Petracca and Wright are the pick of the bunch, then Laverde and Lever.

He said Wright was very good in a terrible team , who's skills were poor and even though they didn't kick it to him properly he still found plenty of the ball for a big man and is a marking machine.

Sorry dz your mate is a terrible judge. Neither are slow. Brayshaw moves well although he could at times use his pace more. He is a certainty. I will be so disappointed if the saints pick him. Best pure mid available imo. McCartin has an ability to create space on the lead.

And to say that the cannons are a terrible team is unbelievable. They consistently produce afl standard players every year. This year won't be any different.

I'm just passing on what my mate said to me as he has seen a lot of these guys over the past couple of years, he could well be a bad judge.

A good mate of mine who's son plays for the Western Jets says we should stay away from Brayshaw and McCartin.

He sees a lot of them and reckons they are both too slow, and have very good players around them who give it to them a lot.

He believes Petracca and Wright are the pick of the bunch, then Laverde and Lever.

He said Wright was very good in a terrible team , who's skills were poor and even though they didn't kick it to him properly he still found plenty of the ball for a big man and is a marking machine.

Isn't Lever supposed to be "slow"?

I'm just passing on what my mate said to me as he has seen a lot of these guys over the past couple of years, he could well be a bad judge.

Patty McCartin has never played against the Jets, and unless your mate is electing to not watch his son play in favour of going to watch Falcons, it's very unlikely he's seen much of him. For what it's worth, Laverde (a good player) is much more of a receiver than either them.

A good mate of mine who's son plays for the Western Jets says we should stay away from Brayshaw and McCartin.

He sees a lot of them and reckons they are both too slow, and have very good players around them who give it to them a lot.

He believes Petracca and Wright are the pick of the bunch, then Laverde and Lever.

He said Wright was very good in a terrible team , who's skills were poor and even though they didn't kick it to him properly he still found plenty of the ball for a big man and is a marking machine.

Wright plays for my local club the Calder Cannons and there one of the best teams every year and played in the TAC cup grand final this year so I'm not sure we're the bad team comes from?