On 24/03/2015 at 01:00, dazzledavey36 said:

The fact is the papers were writing what an absolute combo Wines and Viney would make to our midfield. We were lacking in the inside midfield department and we all could see that. I remember at the time i made a comment that i could see Wines being our Dustin Martin. He was AFL ready and at the time we needed that..

Todd Viney got this one wrong not Neeld.

If you need to quote the "papers" then tell the whole story. The "papers" talked up Wines as Toumpas was not expected to be available at our pick. For that reason it was assumed that we would take Wines. The "papers" rated Toumpas higher. Then in the last week or so when it looked as if Toumpas may slip, he was then talked up as our obvious selection.

We talk about conspiracy theories - there was one floated here that we overpaid for the Hogan underage pick with the understanding that GWS would let Toumpas slip through to our pick.

It is because of Scully, Morton, Toumpas and countless others that I know hold the belief that the "papers" have little idea as to how these kids will turn out and are crystal balling.

I wonder if the doggies are slashing their wrists over not picking Wines either.

He is clearly the standout from that draft.

  On 24/03/2015 at 01:35, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

The keen interest from StKilda and Hawthorn again indicates where recruiters saw Wines at the time. Leading into the Carnival, he was not considered a top ten pick. Even with an awesome Carnival he only went at 7.

Look at the two players taken before Toumpas in that draft - O'Rourke and Plowman, those two are even further off the pace of AFL than Jimmy. Recruiters go off the information, and the player, that they have at the time - it is ridiculously easy to draft three years later.

Spot on.

I have asked a few times who would like to revise their thoughts on last years drafts but as yet no takers,

History tells us that at least one of McCartin, Petracca or Brayshaw will turn out to be ordinary and there will be a much better player or two lower down the draft.

  On 24/03/2015 at 01:48, stuie said:

Where does this end?! We can't trade them for each other now. Toumpas wasn't a surprise pick, he was taken where he was expected to be. The only purpose any of this serves is for whingers like WYL to fill Demonland with more complaining and ridiculous conspiracy theories.

Seeing names like Morton, Scully, and Neeld show up in this thread just shows what a bunch of sooks 'Land has become.

Then don't read it Flanders

Quite simple. But you will. You love kicking sand

It's what you do

Where we had the weakest mid field by a country mile, I was more than a little excited by our pre draft talk of "explosions" in the centre should we draft Ollie to join Jack. We seriously needed Ollie in the middle. I think the chance that Jack and Ollie would not develop into an awesome duo was very low, but, we also needed classy ball users. Unfortunately Jimmy needed surgery so the recruiters decided to go with a longer term strategy which clearly, we didn't have the luxury of time to run with. We needed a big bodied injury free enthusiastic kid in the middle before an injured outside class player. If the Club knew that Jimmy needed surgery (surely??) then they took a massive gamble that looks foolish, and one that we were not in a position to make. I think our well earned patience was tested with this decision,

  On 24/03/2015 at 03:06, 1 red eye 1 blue eye said:

Where we had the weakest mid field by a country mile, I was more than a little excited by our pre draft talk of "explosions" in the centre should we draft Ollie to join Jack. We seriously needed Ollie in the middle. I think the chance that Jack and Ollie would not develop into an awesome duo was very low, but, we also needed classy ball users. Unfortunately Jimmy needed surgery so the recruiters decided to go with a longer term strategy which clearly, we didn't have the luxury of time to run with. We needed a big bodied injury free enthusiastic kid in the middle before an injured outside class player. If the Club knew that Jimmy needed surgery (surely??) then they took a massive gamble that looks foolish, and one that we were not in a position to make. I think our well earned patience was tested with this decision,

Absolutely spot on

Nailed it.

  On 24/03/2015 at 03:06, 1 red eye 1 blue eye said:

Where we had the weakest mid field by a country mile, I was more than a little excited by our pre draft talk of "explosions" in the centre should we draft Ollie to join Jack. We seriously needed Ollie in the middle. I think the chance that Jack and Ollie would not develop into an awesome duo was very low, but, we also needed classy ball users. Unfortunately Jimmy needed surgery so the recruiters decided to go with a longer term strategy which clearly, we didn't have the luxury of time to run with. We needed a big bodied injury free enthusiastic kid in the middle before an injured outside class player. If the Club knew that Jimmy needed surgery (surely??) then they took a massive gamble that looks foolish, and one that we were not in a position to make. I think our well earned patience was tested with this decision,

making a recruiting decision that favours immediate results before a greater longterm output is as stupid and unrealistic as SWYL's 'best buddies' approach

  On 24/03/2015 at 03:06, 1 red eye 1 blue eye said:

Where we had the weakest mid field by a country mile, I was more than a little excited by our pre draft talk of "explosions" in the centre should we draft Ollie to join Jack. We seriously needed Ollie in the middle. I think the chance that Jack and Ollie would not develop into an awesome duo was very low, but, we also needed classy ball users. Unfortunately Jimmy needed surgery so the recruiters decided to go with a longer term strategy which clearly, we didn't have the luxury of time to run with. We needed a big bodied injury free enthusiastic kid in the middle before an injured outside class player. If the Club knew that Jimmy needed surgery (surely??) then they took a massive gamble that looks foolish, and one that we were not in a position to make. I think our well earned patience was tested with this decision,

I suppose it comes down to perception and perspective.

I remember at the time being really disappointed that it looked like we'd be spending pick 4 on someone who didn't appear to have any weapons other than a big body when playing against 17 year olds. Whitfield and Toumpas were the classy selections of the draft, players with real X Factor who could cut up an opposition zone with speed and precision.

O'Meara and Crouch were taken from the pool, Viney would most likely be coming with a second round, which left us with a guy that most seemed to rate as going between 7 and 12.

I liked the idea of more grunt in the midfield but was disappointed that that was all that we were going to get for our top pick.

I was wrong.

Wines, so far, is the pick of his age bracket.

Most were wrong.

Even those who thought we should have drafted Wines, would not have believed he was the best player in the draft.

  On 24/03/2015 at 03:52, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I suppose it comes down to perception and perspective.

I remember at the time being really disappointed that it looked like we'd be spending pick 4 on someone who didn't appear to have any weapons other than a big body when playing against 17 year olds. Whitfield and Toumpas were the classy selections of the draft, players with real X Factor who could cut up an opposition zone with speed and precision.

O'Meara and Crouch were taken from the pool, Viney would most likely be coming with a second round, which left us with a guy that most seemed to rate as going between 7 and 12.

I liked the idea of more grunt in the midfield but was disappointed that that was all that we were going to get for our top pick.

I was wrong.

Wines, so far, is the pick of his age bracket.

Most were wrong.

Even those who thought we should have drafted Wines, would not have believed he was the best player in the draft.

Way too sensible for my liking.

The "experts" also put the knock on Wines kicking - it looks more than fine to me.

Until they raise the drafting age so we have more exposed form these mistakes will happen over and over again. Bontempelli, Wines, Dom Tyson's draft - GWS missed out Chad Wingard at 6 ! ( the effectively missed picking the best of the draft and trading out the equal best in Tyson !)

Edited March 24, 201510 yr by nutbean

  On 24/03/2015 at 03:46, Curry & Beer said:

making a recruiting decision that favours immediate results before a greater longterm output is as stupid and unrealistic as SWYL's 'best buddies' approach

I think calling it stupid is a bit hyper there C&B, we used pick #4 to recruit a player needing surgery to both hips? If it was known about Jimmys hips prior the draft would that have had an affect on who you think should have been recruited?

Edit: grammar

Edited March 24, 201510 yr by 1 red eye 1 blue eye

  On 24/03/2015 at 04:29, nutbean said:

Way too sensible for my liking.

The "experts" also put the knock on Wines kicking - it looks more than fine to me.

Until they raise the drafting age so we have more exposed form these mistakes will happen over and over again. Bontempelli, Wines, Dom Tyson's draft - GWS missed out Chad Wingard at 6 ! ( the effectively missed picking the best of the draft and trading out the equal best in Tyson !)

please don't get me started on the raising the drafting age debate again

we wouldnt have even seen Wines play if it was raised! there is some guess work in drafting. too bad

sorry, had to jump on the soap box

  On 24/03/2015 at 04:32, DubDee said:

there is some guess work in drafting. too bad

Unfortunately this is not accepted by many - there are some that think there is no guesswork.

I actually don't care whether they raise the age or not. All I am suggesting is that what we see for 2 years at TAC under 18 level is nothing more than indication that can't possibly take into account both future physical development and maturity rates. There will always be late bloomers and there will be TAC guns that never develop much further than that.

If we retrospectively reordered the first two rounds of every draft they would look nothing like the order in which the players were actually picked.

We only moan about how it affects us but the reality is most players in the draft have either under or over achieved if you compare them to players taken before or after them.

  On 24/03/2015 at 04:30, 1 red eye 1 blue eye said:

I think calling it stupid is a bit hyper there C&B, we used pick #4 to recruit a player needing surgery to both hips? If it was known about Jimmys hips prior the draft would that have had an affect on who you think should have been recruited?

Edit: grammar

out of curiosity, when did jt's hip problems become known?

i always thought (presumed) we (mfc at least) knew about them prior to the draft

  On 24/03/2015 at 05:51, daisycutter said:

out of curiosity, when did jt's hip problems become known?

i always thought (presumed) we (mfc at least) knew about them prior to the draft

Happened right before the 2012 under 18s championships.

After his last game for SA he had the operation.

  On 24/03/2015 at 05:15, nutbean said:

Unfortunately this is not accepted by many - there are some that think there is no guesswork.

I actually don't care whether they raise the age or not. All I am suggesting is that what we see for 2 years at TAC under 18 level is nothing more than indication that can't possibly take into account both future physical development and maturity rates. There will always be late bloomers and there will be TAC guns that never develop much further than that.

If we retrospectively reordered the first two rounds of every draft they would look nothing like the order in which the players were actually picked.

We only moan about how it affects us but the reality is most players in the draft have either under or over achieved if you compare them to players taken before or after them.

Damn. I agree with all that

It's all irrelevant forget about it, it's the one that got away, future is unknown, if you look at a player like Nicky dal Santo and at Jimmy, at junior level they were similar types, Nicky turn out to be a gun without the pressure of being a top 10 pick, that does not mean if a player is taken higher than a another play, and if the higher pick is doing better then a lower picked player, what should we get rid of that player? like some are calling for, far to soon,and a knee jurk reactions. I say close the tread, I hate the told you so, if you throw enough opinions out there some will get it right, I never hear from the I got it wrong.

  On 24/03/2015 at 09:50, DubDee said:

Damn. I agree with all that

don't you just hate that !

Re-start of the large hadron collider next week may finally prove the existence of parallel universes and disprove the Big Bang theory. One way to test this controversial idea would be undertake a search for a football thread which has Ollie Wines playing at Melbourne, but putting off contract negotiations until the end of the year.

Ollie is a good player

Toump may or may not have been better depends which conspiracy theory you choose to follow.

Hopefully Roosy and other coaches will be in Toumps ear and tell him what he needs to do to be better than Ollie.

Toump will hopefully not be haunted and falter but will improve.

He may not become as good as Ollie as it will also depend upon his teammates development.

JV and TV also have something to prove and will need toump to restore their credibility

The better Ollie is the better our guys must be .

  On 25/03/2015 at 04:01, dpositive said:

JV and TV also have something to prove and will need toump to restore their credibility

Did I miss something?

What an inspired pick up Wines was for Port Adelaide FC!

  On 17/04/2015 at 01:33, picket fence said:

What an inspired pick up Wines was for Port Adelaide FC!

They must have been pissing themselves laughing on the inside

Going to be a great player for a long time. Not sure he'll make that transition into greatness but he's the kind of player that will average 90-100 SC points his whole career. He's the second coming of Nathan Jones.

Exactly what we needed.

What a colossal [censored] up.

Edited April 17, 201510 yr by praha

  On 17/04/2015 at 01:26, Forest Demon said:

Did I miss something?

No....we did

  On 25/03/2015 at 01:03, bush demon said:

Re-start of the large hadron collider next week may finally prove the existence of parallel universes and disprove the Big Bang theory. One way to test this controversial idea would be undertake a search for a football thread which has Ollie Wines playing at Melbourne, but putting off contract negotiations until the end of the year.

Putting off negotiations till after brownlow medal night.