I doubt anybody could have predicted the way Wines has come on. Deep down I think we all saw Viney as a better player with Ollie being the understudy to him. Not the way it has turned out - no disrespect meant to Jack either.

Everyone expected Jimmy to be taken before Wines so it was not a drafting error, it was just that Wines stepped up.

As Deecisive and others have noted, at least Toumpas was regarded as the #2 overall pick all season. It was just the complete laughable stupidity of GWS picking two complete randoms at 2 and 3 that let him slide through to us. At least it wasn't a vulgar reach a la Cook, Strauss and Gysberts when far better players were available and that much was plain to see by run of the mill supporters.

If you want to make yourselves feel better, consider this. If we drafted Wines, there is no way this club wins two games in 2013. Neeld survives the year, Roos never comes. I'm looking at it as a trade of Wines and Neeld for Toumpas and Roos.

BTW, does anyone want a coffee?

I'm making one.

Wines with two.

I mean WHITE with two.

Wines with two.

I mean WHITE with two.

Does it come with a slice of Humble pie and a side of Bitter Greens?

To be fair Toumpas was universally regarded as a top 3 pick and some of us were pretty happy when he dropped to us at 4. At that time I wanted Wines but with Toumpas available it was a tough call.

on the surface all the pro Dimitro posts/arguments seemingly made sense. However as WYL suggests the history of the player should/ought not have been discarded quite as quickly as it must have been . Othet clubs seem to get these sort of things better.

We got it wrong when the opportunity existed to get it right. To follor the herd as to draftinv in terms of who or what a player might be is folly. SELDOM. ..and recurringly so do players pan out as suggested by the pundits. Better selection come from better and more unique thinking. Hopefully thats where we are now.

I don't think Toumpas has played half as badly as people on here have made out. A few times he's looked a bit of the pace but often he makes brilliant decisions and has great skills. He's often involved with scoring ball movements.

Do I wish he showed a bit more dash and pace? Yes. Do I wish he got more of the ball? Yes.

But seriously he's played a handful of injury affected games for a hideous team so I'm not worried at all. Earlier this year Roos said he was treating Jimmy as a first year player as his first year may have actually done more harm than good.

If he gets a full preseason and gets through next year relatively injury free and we still aren't seeing something, then it might be time to be legitimately concerned. For now, I like the kid and I particularly like what happens when he gets the ball.

Well done to wines who I enjoy watching and who doesn't play for Melbourne and seems somewhat irrelevant when discussing our team.

This thread is sad and embarrassing...

Wines isn't the only reason Port won last night... He is one player out of a team, that is performing well...

I also doubt he'd be able to perform as well playing for us...

This thread is sad and embarrassing...

Wines isn't the only reason Port won last night... He is one player out of a team, that is performing well...

I also doubt he'd be able to perform as well playing for us...

Sorry Tatu I've thought that but last night when they were getting hammered he was one of the few to stand up and fight and keep them in the game. He turned it on even more in the second half and the others followed he and Hartlett who were the only decent players up to that point.

Like Joel Selwood these type of players don't just hate losing they want to win every contest and its infectous, I'm not saying we'd be in the finals nor would he be as good as he currently is but players like Wines are always going to be players.

Don't get me wrong still seen some good things in Jimmy and wont write him off yet

As much as this irks me we can't keep looking in the past.

I know our decisions have been horrific but that is now in the past.

To move on we need to look forward.

Easy said I know but we ALL must look forward.

One thing is certain and that is we now have the right people in the right places to help us move forward with confidence.

Go the fu#king DEMONS

im going to ask a really dumb question but who were the recruiting people back in 2012 when we chose the toump? Was it Todd because he obviously had Ollie under his nose and known how good he was. Did he get over ruled by Neeld who saw something in Toumpas and wanted him.

Yawn!! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Nailed It On Post #3 in this topic Well Done hardtack!

Let It Go!

As Deecisive and others have noted, at least Toumpas was regarded as the #2 overall pick all season. It was just the complete laughable stupidity of GWS picking two complete randoms at 2 and 3 that let him slide through to us. At least it wasn't a vulgar reach a la Cook, Strauss and Gysberts when far better players were available and that much was plain to see by run of the mill supporters.

If you want to make yourselves feel better, consider this. If we drafted Wines, there is no way this club wins two games in 2013. Neeld survives the year, Roos never comes. I'm looking at it as a trade of Wines and Neeld for Toumpas and Roos.

You genuinely believe that one player (i.e. Wines) would have won us games off his own bat last year?

I understand that he would have been a good player, but there would have still been 21 other MFC-2013 players with him. Pretty hyperbolic to suggest that Wines alone would have won us more games. And that's not even considering that Wines would be significantly less developed at this stage of his career if he'd come here instead of to Port.

I doubt anybody could have predicted the way Wines has come on. Deep down I think we all saw Viney as a better player with Ollie being the understudy to him. Not the way it has turned out - no disrespect meant to Jack either.

FCS - Ollie is playing in a top 4 team with a largely mature midfield : JT is at a club with a struggling midfield (though better this year) and has been struggling with injury.

FCS - Ollie is playing in a top 4 team with a largely mature midfield : JT is at a club with a struggling midfield (though better this year) and has been struggling with injury.

In a top four team, Toumpas would still be slow and timid.

Neeld on Toumpas (it's not much but there's a bit there)

Neeld said he would never have recruited key forward Jesse Hogan - who cannot be played until next year - or No.4 pick Jimmy Toumpas after two hip surgeries last year if he believed he did not have time to develop.

In my opinion, Viney wanted Toumpas and Neeld went with the decision. Or, they were both in sync with the decision. It's highly doubtful that Neeld would have overruled Viney.

What is noticeable about those who wanted Wines (mostly in hindsight) is that they generally only want to talk about the "decision" - not who made the decision. The decision didn't just magically happen. Some have pointed the finger at Neeld but that's a cop out.

I've yet to see the finger pointed at Viney by anyone, yet he was the person charged with making the decision on Toumpas. Regardless, Toumpas was touted as the 2 pick from that 2012 season and definitely top 5 whereas Wines wasn't regarded as a top 5 pick.

In a top four team, Toumpas would still be slow and timid.

Yep and yep again, FWIW If the rumours are correct and he wants to go home I would trade in a heartbeat. A third rounder and or player should do it! A second round preferential but I don't think he's got that much currency! Best do it now because I cannot see him cutting it!

Neeld on Toumpas (it's not much but there's a bit there)

In my opinion, Viney wanted Toumpas and Neeld went with the decision. Or, they were both in sync with the decision. It's highly doubtful that Neeld would have overruled Viney.

What is noticeable about those who wanted Wines (mostly in hindsight) is that they generally only want to talk about the "decision" - not who made the decision. The decision didn't just magically happen. Some have pointed the finger at Neeld but that's a cop out.

I've yet to see the finger pointed at Viney by anyone, yet he was the person charged with making the decision on Toumpas. Regardless, Toumpas was touted as the 2 pick from that 2012 season and definitely top 5 whereas Wines wasn't regarded as a top 5 pick.

Exactly is very well easy to point the finger Neeld but the end of the day it was Viney that selected and wanted Toumpas. Reason why he isn't under because he is a 'Melbourne great'

For all the wrong Neeld did this wasn't one of them. Viney needs take majority of responsibility for this.

Exactly is very well easy to point the finger Neeld but the end of the day it was Viney that selected and wanted Toumpas. Reason why he isn't under because he is a 'Melbourne great'

For all the wrong Neeld did this wasn't one of them. Viney needs take majority of responsibility for this.

Well yeah, but people like me always recognised that it was Todd's decision ... and, in my case, I'm comfortable with his decision.

Exactly is very well easy to point the finger Neeld but the end of the day it was Viney that selected and wanted Toumpas. Reason why he isn't under because he is a 'Melbourne great'

For all the wrong Neeld did this wasn't one of them. Viney needs take majority of responsibility for this.

So Dazzler Why oh why did Todd take Toumpas when he knew KNEW full well the abilities of Olllie Wines and knew his son and him were best mates and knows ( as we all do ) you can't enough quality mids) so WHY OH WHY Then did he make this call?????? Eh?

Viney wanted Wines, Neeld wanted an outside runner with class with our first pick.

This subject has been done to death.

I'm closing this thread but the good news is that if you want to carry on, you can do it here and the sane ones can ignore it.