A poster recently pointed out how awful we are because both Geelong and Freo (who belted us in the past 2 weeks) got smashed by the Saints and GWS ran Geelong close.

That was his evidence to show how inept and far off we are compared to every other team.

Mind-blowing logic but let's have a look at our season rather then team X beat team Y so Team X is way better then MFC.

We have 4 wins to date.

R4 Carlton, R7 Adelaide, R9 Richmond, R13 Essendon.

4 games we really should've won.

Rd 1 v Saints, Rd 8 Bulldogs, R15 Bulldogs, Rd 18 PA.

Winning positions late in those games but couldn't get it done. Plenty of skill errors/decision making but some shoddy umpiring decisions compounded the problem.

5 games we got close (pushed) but never looked like winning it.

R5 GC -8, R11 Power -20, R6 Sydney -31, R12 Pies -33, R3 GWS -32

4 games we were beaten all over the park and scoreboard

R2 WCE, R16 Freo, R17 Geelong, R14 North

So 4 games out of 17, we were not up to scratch.

Hardly "so far off the competition, it's not funny"

We are doing this with only Jones, Tyson, Cross and Vince as our "trusted" mids.

We need to build on that list (Viney, Riley, Toumpas, Trengove, Salem, Kent, Michie need to step up).

But clearly this season is a pass and something we can build on.

Certainly a pass mark for mine

4 good wins, every side we have beaten this year is above us, Carlton, Richmond, Essendon and Adelaide are four scalps we would have been proud to have

i also feel that we could easily have beaten Port twice, Doggies twice, Gold coast, GWS, Stkilda, so a potential 11 wins if all had have gone our way.

zero 100 point losses

genuine development in every player i have seen

20 point percentage improvement

I don't think our ladder position is a great representation of where we are at.

certain pass mark in my mind

A poster recently pointed out how awful we are because both Geelong and Freo (who belted us in the past 2 weeks) got smashed by the Saints and GWS ran Geelong close.

That was his evidence to show how inept and far off we are compared to every other team.

Mind-blowing logic but let's have a look at our season rather then team X beat team Y so Team X is way better then MFC.

We have 4 wins to date.

R4 Carlton, R7 Adelaide, R9 Richmond, R13 Essendon.

4 games we really should've won.

Rd 1 v Saints, Rd 8 Bulldogs, R15 Bulldogs, Rd 18 PA.

Winning positions late in those games but couldn't get it done. Plenty of skill errors/decision making but some shoddy umpiring decisions compounded the problem.

5 games we got close (pushed) but never looked like winning it.

R5 GC -8, R11 Power -20, R6 Sydney -31, R12 Pies -33, R3 GWS -32

4 games we were beaten all over the park and scoreboard

R2 WCE, R16 Freo, R17 Geelong, R14 North

So 4 games out of 17, we were not up to scratch.

Hardly "so far off the competition, it's not funny"

We are doing this with only Jones, Tyson, Cross and Vince as our "trusted" mids.

We need to build on that list (Viney, Riley, Toumpas, Trengove, Salem, Kent, Michie need to step up).

But clearly this season is a pass and something we can build on.

I consider the first Port loss as one we should have won. I didn't think 4 wins would be a pass mark for me at this stage, but I was also realistic enough not to expect more than 6 for the year. We could still very well get those 6 too. So, yep, pass mark for me too. One caveat though - it has highlighted just how bad our list is. If we're to improve next season, we'll need a significant turn over of the list.

Edited July 21, 201411 yr by AdamFarr

The poster has veered wildly into the dismal mysteries of Footy Maths. Team A beats Team B, Team B beats Team C, therefore Team A must beat Team C.

a pretty good one considering where we have come from. In the scheme of what "good actually is" though, it is a bad one.
Goes to show how messed up our club really was, and how blind we were to it. Thank god for Roosy.

With that being said, we have lost 5 games where we have been up at some point in the last quarter, so we could technically have been sitting on 9 wins. But all l know as a supporter is that i believe again.

I wouldn't place Pies and Swans in the same category as those other three. We never pushed them and never really looked in it, whereas those other three presented real opportunities to get the win. So those two games I'd place in a category of marginally competitive.

The rest I would agree with, and it demonstrates how far we've come from last season on performance alone.

We are a much better side then what our ladder position shows.

We should be on atleast 8 wins.

A definite pass for me. I just hope we have a fully fit Jesse Hogan next year.

Four wins is improvement enough on the Neeld years. But to add to that, we've lost five games in which we were in front at some point in the fourth quarter (GWS, Bulldogs x 2, Port x 2). We've also lost another two games in which we were in a legitimate winning position (St Kilda, Gold Coast).

Then there are the middle of the road games in which we've been competitive without being really in a winning position (Sydney and Collingwood). Then there's the four game we weren't in (West Coast, North, Freo, Geelong).

Four wins, four games we could (truly) realistically have won, another two in which we could possibly have won, and another two in which we pushed better sides than us all day. That is so, so, so much better, and I haven't even started yet on the type of football we've played or the individual improvements.

Playing an obsessive possession game (OPG) mostly in the back half and continually going lateral or backwards with your first/2nd string possessions from stoppages for the majority of a match (particularly early on in the match) wont win you many matches of footy unless the opponent you are playing is in pretty poor form and not very good running the other way when they cough up possession during many of their chains of play (like us)

The OPG method is a good ploy when you have a decent lead late into any quarter and you wish to defend the hard work already done on the scoreboad or to stop a run on by the opposition. Very useful and a must have team skill... but to be used for a smaller percentage of match time .... not the majority of it like we are doing atm....particularly early on when the match is only new and anyone's to win.

Unless we can somehow manage a "Cats" style run and carry "overlap" game style for the "majority" of a match (particularly early in a game) injecting some super talent with genuine pace and silky dispoal/handling skills (including a few genuine goal kickers ... from mids or up forward) ... I believe we will continue to bounce along the bottom.

Change the balance of the present style and make it the exception ie, OPG only when the match situation calls for it....and head towards the Geelong way both in training, recruiting and methods (in particular focussing on recruiting players who have great kicking skills)..and we will start to shine, win many more games by decent margins (rather tha sneaking over the line by the hair of our chin)...and maybe even threaten for a finals birth...

Edited July 21, 201411 yr by Rusty Nails

A poster recently pointed out how awful we are because both Geelong and Freo (who belted us in the past 2 weeks) got smashed by the Saints and GWS ran Geelong close.

That was his evidence to show how inept and far off we are compared to every other team.

Mind-blowing logic but let's have a look at our season rather then team X beat team Y so Team X is way better then MFC.

We have 4 wins to date.

R4 Carlton, R7 Adelaide, R9 Richmond, R13 Essendon.

4 games we really should've won.

Rd 1 v Saints, Rd 8 Bulldogs, R15 Bulldogs, Rd 18 PA.

Winning positions late in those games but couldn't get it done. Plenty of skill errors/decision making but some shoddy umpiring decisions compounded the problem.

5 games we got close (pushed) but never looked like winning it.

R5 GC -8, R11 Power -20, R6 Sydney -31, R12 Pies -33, R3 GWS -32

4 games we were beaten all over the park and scoreboard

R2 WCE, R16 Freo, R17 Geelong, R14 North

So 4 games out of 17, we were not up to scratch.

Hardly "so far off the competition, it's not funny"

We are doing this with only Jones, Tyson, Cross and Vince as our "trusted" mids.

We need to build on that list (Viney, Riley, Toumpas, Trengove, Salem, Kent, Michie need to step up).

But clearly this season is a pass and something we can build on.

the Collingwood game was a disgrace

We kicked 3 goals for the entire game which is just inexcusable

Not winning those close games is frustrating but the trade leverage (if we go that way) the earlier draft picks may yield could prove very important. It may mean the difference to actually winning those near misses.

Easily a pass mark.

Better luck with Clarke and Hogan playing full season this year and we'd be knocking on the door of the 8.

So pass for mine given that.

Better luck with Clarke and Hogan playing full season this year and we'd be knocking on the door of the 8.

So pass for mine given that.

Exactly.. A fully fit Clark would have made a huge difference. You only have to look at his 2012 youtube highlights just to see what a big power forward he was. When he kicked 4 goals in the first QTR against gws I thought he would easily kick atleast 8 or night.

Plus Dawes would be playing alot better footy with Clark Next him aswell. Not getting double teamed and taking the best defender every week.

So many what ifs....

Conversly we could be 2-15 if we lost close games to Adelaide and Essendon.

The team will get a pass mark when it beats Brisbane and GWS.

4 wins and 13 losses. good run with injuries most of the year, we lost ones we could have won and we won ones we could have lost

clear fail for the season as we are entrenched in the bottom 4 as always and could well win the wooden spoon. I dont know how anyone could argue otherwise. I guess it depends on your expectations pre-season. or maybe people are just comparing us to last season when we performed as one of the worst sides in AFL/VFL history

not really interested in excuses, we are young and tired - port were younger on the weekend.

still think we are on the right track but itll take a long time to be a challenger for the 8 at this rate

there is still 5 games left

There is time left to make this season a resounding success

Or alternatively, a miserable fail

This season was never going to be judged on the number of wins - Roos said that from the start, even when he was looking at a forward line containing all three of Clark, Hogan and Dawes, and how those plans were thwarted right from round 1!

There have been so many improvements and whilst losing is never palatable or even acceptable, would anyone seriously like to trade our overall situation with where we were 12 months ago?

Hopefully its like 1997.. And then next year we are up and about!!

I reckon it's a pass so far but agree with hogan about how with 5 games to go there's still time for some improvement or utter despair. We were given a relatively soft early fixture.

Also I agree with whoever said we were dreadful against collingwood. That was one of our worst performances of the year. And while there were a couple of games we maybe should have won, I think we should be honest about the essendon win. That was ridiculously lucky. Should have been 60 pts down early. Somehow conjured a wonderful win after playing shite for most of the game.

pass for us, fail for anybody else.

The team will get a pass mark when it beats Brisbane and GWS.

Agreed. We've lost some games we should've won against average teams. We need to beat the other bottom placed teams around us to solidify our position and build momentum heading into next season.

I'd say it's a pass for the year, though I expected a few more wins. We're clearly a better side than the past few years, but would've been nice to win a few more of those games we let slip. Next year we need to win 8 games minimum and be around the bottom of the 8. We haven't played finals since 2006, and we don't have Roos coaching us for much longer, most likely another 2 years. We need to get up the ladder quickly and get some finals experience into the boys while Roos is coach IMO.

One thing I DO like about the season we are having is that we are focused on this forum mostly on the actual on field product. There is no more obsession with peripheral issues, boardroom politics, historical minutae and stylistic details. I thought we would never stop talking about the previous cast of characters who dominated the last 7-8 years but they rarely get a mention anymore. If PJ and Roos have done anything, it is make us into a club that is actually about playing football and not what Mick Malthouse described us as.

P.S. I have made a concerted effort not to bring the above mentioned people's names up so as we don't take the thread off track but it is refreshing innit?