Toumpas is averaging 17 touches at afl level and his tackles are improving alot, he is improving but people compare him to McRae and wines which means anything he does do is unnoticed

Of course he'll be compared.

no place to hide in the AFL.

Poor pick.

Looong line and history of poor picks.

All picks must be traded this year..best the known.

Glad you weren't in charge of drafting last year - would have missed out on Salem and JKH.

hard not to compare him to the two midfielders selected immediately after him, if you consider stringer a half-forward rather than a pure mid.

we were told that we were getting an afl-ready player who'd done well at senior sanfl level for the last couple of years as a 16 and 17 year old.

he looks a world off it.

one thing he has clearly improved this year is his ability to lay a tackle. however, he is not quick (something that we were told he was) nor is he skilled (something else that we were told he was).

i do wonder whether he can be turned into an inside midfielder, as i struggle to see him making it afl level as an outside runner - he doesn't have the pace nor the skills to play the role.

Glad you weren't in charge of drafting last year - would have missed out on Salem and JKH.

Oops.

You know what I mean...

Amazing to think people are still willing to cut slack to players such as Blease, Strauss, Tapscott, Evans etc. because of previous injuries, yet are all over a kid who required operations to both hips only 12 months ago. We want a successful club but don't seem to want to take the time and effort to get there, clubs like Hawthorn and Sydney put their kids into the seconds for a couple of years to develop properly, so when they do come in they fit in seamlessly.

Some of the post's on here have become embarrassingly ignorant.

...that was a truly awful game to watch. A team with sub-standard VFL players filled with sub AFL level players ( with a few exceptions - JKH, Toumpas Fitzpatrick).

I've seen criticism of Welsh here before, but I have never seen a coach so dis-engaged from his players. Might as well have sat in the stands, since all he did was watch the game.

No extra in the backline against a howling wind, interchange system was similar to Bailey's... You don't sub players when the ball is in your backline, leaving forwards unmarked....Toumpas comes off and has to scream at the player replacing him to get on the ground, as he was too busy watching the game. Just amateurish.

Willy had a simple plan...load the backline against the wind, and kick the ball long and deep when with it. Footy is a simple game, and you just adapt to the conditions at hand. Didn't happen today....

Of course he'll be compared.

no place to hide in the AFL.

Unlike Internet forums.....

...that was a truly awful game to watch. A team with sub-standard VFL players filled with sub AFL level players ( with a few exceptions - JKH, Toumpas Fitzpatrick).

I've seen criticism of Welsh here before, but I have never seen a coach so dis-engaged from his players. Might as well have sat in the stands, since all he did was watch the game.

No extra in the backline against a howling wind, interchange system was similar to Bailey's... You don't sub players when the ball is in your backline, leaving forwards unmarked....Toumpas comes off and has to scream at the player replacing him to get on the ground, as he was too busy watching the game. Just amateurish.

Willy had a simple plan...load the backline against the wind, and kick the ball long and deep when with it. Footy is a simple game, and you just adapt to the conditions at hand. Didn't happen today....

Very worrying.

Something has to be done.

Casey will start holding us back if it hasn't already.

Amazing to think people are still willing to cut slack to players such as Blease, Strauss, Tapscott, Evans etc. because of previous injuries, yet are all over a kid who required operations to both hips only 12 months ago. We want a successful club but don't seem to want to take the time and effort to get there, clubs like Hawthorn and Sydney put their kids into the seconds for a couple of years to develop properly, so when they do come in they fit in seamlessly.

Some of the post's on here have become embarrassingly ignorant.

Box Hill Hawks are a cohesive and successful team - not sure about Sydney's seconds - which makes a huge difference compared with playing in an absolute rabble being beaten every week, even on the rare occasions they look as if they could win.

It must be depressing beyond comprehension being told to go down a rung and work on specific aspects of your game then find yourself in a team so devoid of system and leadership that you can't see any rewards or outcomes from whatever you are sent there to work on. The word toxic has been bandied about a bit and seems as good a description as any.

One thing I will say is toumpas has lost do much pace since his hip surgery, he used to be genuinely quick, probably Matt Jones quick and loved to run and carry

Without that he really doesn't have a role unless he develops a contested game

One thing I will say is toumpas has lost do much pace since his hip surgery, he used to be genuinely quick, probably Matt Jones quick and loved to run and carry

Without that he really doesn't have a role unless he develops a contested game

and look at what we could have picked up...

I have stayed out of this discussion for a while but facts are facts.

You do not draft a young kid who relies on pace after major hip surgery at pick 4.

Toump should have gone in the 30's.

A positive... JKH had 31 disposals and 9 tackles. Tapscott had 30 disposals

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=24&pid1=230&tid2=12&pid2=3798&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

or this

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=11&pid1=266&tid2=12&pid2=3798&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

this is also interesting. Dont judge him fully yet. Sit on the fence, have faith.

A positive... JKH had 31 disposals and 9 tackles. Teapot had 30 disposals

JKH is brilliant

Thats one draft pick we absolutely nailed

would be pretty amazing if Tapscott saved his career over the next 10 weeks.. he was at least added to the squad after T Mac was ruled out so theres some progress i suppose. 30 touches is a good sign

Why is everyone so certain that ditching Casey would result in our players playing in a better side?

Just had a quick chat with one of the Williamstown coaches, used to play footy with him/for him. Only touched briefly on the game but he is a massive fan of JKH, as I guess most are and said Tappy was really good. He didn't come out and just say Tappy was really good, I asked how he went as I'm still holding on that he might make something of himself. Just wanted to put that into context.

Will talk to him later in the week when there is more time and find out who they thought our best were.

So in fact, this post really doesn't add... anything

Tapscott deserves a run. Would like to see him in the team next week for sure.

It's interesting wyl, he could be a gun, if he gets his pace back, but we knew exactly what we'd get with wines or Grundy

yes he could be. But the pace of the game continues to rise.

After a hip operation he should never have gone at 4.

Of course he'll be compared.

no place to hide in the AFL.

Glad to see others feeling the same way about ....... ( the player I'm not allowed to speak about)

I have watched Casey a few times this year: not as much as most previous years but enough to see a real lessening of team talent each week. By team talent I mean the way the 22 interact and flow on the field. I hate to say it, but the team seems to lack cohesion in a similar way to the Dees under Neeld. I don't know the coach but have heard him at a number of quarter time breaks and he seems fine to me, if a little uninspiring at times.

My own insight is that it is not the Casey Demons who are the real problem, it is the lack of other talent being attracted to Casey who are genuine good quality VFL players.

And I have to have a say on Gysberts. WE stuffed up a very good, natural footballer who was a great decision maker and had amazing hands in tight. He was a bloody good footballer who came to a club that killed his career. He was injury prone, but our handling of his injuries continued to deepen the impact of his injuries. And the China thing - if that was an average workplace, Worksafe would have had a field day.

As for those who say he does not have ticker, he definitely was not like that when he arrived. He was known for his workrate, and that he would still be in and under packs late in games. That disappeared while at MFC. I do concede that he never got his fitness back after the 2nd preseason was filled with injury.

One thing I will say is toumpas has lost do much pace since his hip surgery, he used to be genuinely quick, probably Matt Jones quick and loved to run and carry

Without that he really doesn't have a role unless he develops a contested game

Another Trengove scenario? Young player loses speed and is left with not enough weapons at AFL level; he is not big or an inside ball magnet and there is a knock on his skills with the ball as well, in that they are not absolute silk. Not sure about how hips effect speed? Can he get it back?

Poor pick.

Looong line and history of poor picks.

All picks must be traded this year...best the known.

Don't agree with trading the picks, if we manage to get compensation pick for Frawley keep 1 & trade 1. I like the look of Petracca when I saw him, nice big bodied mid with what I saw an appetite for hard work. Obviously if another Salem/Tyson deal pops up again then it's a no brainer

Freo Dockers are not doing to bad, Peel are a basket case in the WAFL and the alignment doesn't seem to be affecting them. I saw Peel today and their skills were atrocious, the Dockers players worked hard but had no cattle with them and they fell short again. Morabito starred again along with Jono Griffin, Kepler Bradley & Tom Sheridan, but the lack of good quality players to support them was obvious.

The Casey scenario could be the same, it is good to see AFL players putting solid efforts in when the tide is heavily against them. I know several AFL scouts who look hard and take a lot of note on the standouts in the weaker colts sides, it says a lot about a player. Casey making finals regularly didn't seem to transpire at AFL level, so I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water just yet. How Casey perform is irrelevant once the players come in at AFL level and know the structure and perform at that level.

Don't agree with trading the picks, if we manage to get compensation pick for Frawley keep 1 & trade 1. I like the look of Petracca when I saw him, nice big bodied mid with what I saw an appetite for hard work. Obviously if another Salem/Tyson deal pops up again then it's a no brainer

We tend to recruit better in later picks.

Too much pressure to get it right??

It's interesting earl, trenners has never been fast in the way toumpas was, imo he has been played out of position, he's an inside mid with a quick first couple of steps who has been playing at half forward or on the outside where his pace is exposed

Toumpas had some genuine speed but has lost it and his confidence has clearly taken a massive hit, who knows if he can get it back, recruiters obviously think so