The Frawley Domino

[Macca 16,611]

If Frawley goes and we receive a first round pick (say, pick 5, 6 or 7) there will be plenty of clubs willing to trade for that pick. We might be able to swing another Tyson/Salem type deal. GWS have been willing to trade in the past so there's one possibility. As well as that, we can use our other first round pick on the best available prospect.

If he stays, we've spent a year developing him into a forward who can therefore play at both ends of the ground. If he decides to leave, he may have some regrets later on ... that's the risk he might decide to take.

We really don't know if he's staying or going but it might end up being a win/win situation (at the end of day)

[nutbean 8,838]

This line by Frawley really proves how little he thinks before he speaks...

"At this club we've seen massive improvement over the last few years and if we keep going in the right trend, we'll hopefully be playing finals really soon."

I don't know what improvement 'over the last few years' he's talking about. Does anyone else?

As for Finals, I'm pretty sure he said the lure to leave is from the possibility of playing finals football. Yet he says in the quote above, 'we'll hopefully be playing finals really soon'.

The bloke is an airhead and definitely an overrated player. One year All Australian full back and y'all call him a superstar. Dunn might get it this year, I wonder if he'll suddenly rise up the charts.

He can go. His worth to us as a leader and culture changer is non-existent and his onfield performance is grossly overrated.

We need players that can change our club, and if Frawley goes, our chances of nabbing one improve greatly.

I don't think he is a superstar by any means - but you seriously dislike him. He is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Not all footballers are leaders and not all footballers are culture changers but his onfield performances are not grossly overated ( this year) by most- he has been good in quite a few games - not great. You do get that he is 5 games into the playing the hardest position on the ground ? Your judgement is clouded.

(4th in our team for contested marks and 2nd for contested marks inside 50, averages 8 marks a game)

Edited June 19, 2014 by nutbean

[Machsy 2,858]

Steve's just trying to feebly protect his own fragile heart.

[thevil1 421]

My gut feel is Frawley will stay & his current stance serves 2 purposes. 1. Maximize his next contract. 2. Keep the pressure on the team to keep improving & convince him to stay (my understanding is he's a popular figure amongst the playing group). Hence he's giving mixed messages, "hopefully we're playing finals soon" would indicate he acknowledges big improvements already & lifting the ante from seeing improvement/direction of the club to "things need to be going perfect 100% of the time" type comments. I don't think that his holding out is having any negative effects on the playing group regardless so at this stage I don't mind at all him holding out. He would know as well as anyone how far we've come without having Mitch Clark, Hogan or Trengove this year & I think given what he's been through in his first 8 years at the club that he's also holding the administration to task about the 'succession' planning as he doesn't want to sign a long term deal with the albeit remote possibility that after 3 years of Roos at the helm the club goes backwards with another Bailey or Neeld appointment.

I could be wrong of course but his situation is very different to Scully's & he has little to gain by signing/committing elsewhere a year early. Scully's situation to be able to walk for a ridiculously huge contract was a once off chance for a 2nd year player given the expansion club concessions, whereas Frawley is a complete FA able to go to any club at all. A lot can happen in 12 months so why would he decide a year earlier than he had to? You really think his manager would be that dumb also?

Go MFC, either way we're on the rise!!!

[Ted Lasso 18,779]

My idea outcome would be to keep chip, pick up Mundy and Rosa as free agents, and trade pick 5 and 25 for cognilio and tommlinson

Life would be good if that happened

[nutbean 8,838]

My idea outcome would be to keep chip, pick up Mundy and Rosa as free agents, and trade pick 5 and 25 for cognilio and tommlinson

Life would be good if that happened

Dreaming !!!

( but if you can give me a piece of that dream I would appreciate it )

[Ted Lasso 18,779]

Haha well nutbean, Mundy and rosa are both Victorian, and we have money 3 year deal for both, coniglio is tysons best mate and tommlinson is a good young key forward who has Boyd, Patton and cameron to compete with

But yeah I think it's pretty optimistic

[Goodvibes 3,596]

My idea outcome would be to keep chip, pick up Mundy and Rosa as free agents, and trade pick 5 and 25 for cognilio and tommlinson

Life would be good if that happened

Not wanting to take this thread off topic but am I alone in not rating Matt Rosa. He seems to have many admirers around here.

Keeping Chip is essential. Firstly, we keep avery good key position player in his prime who now has the ability to swing forward. Secondly, staying would be a statement to the supporter base and the competition and disgruntled players at other clubs that this is team heading in the right direction. Finally, if Chip stays we're more likely to get active in the Free Agent market.

My dream scenario is keeping Chip and McDonald, trading pick 5/6/7 for Dylan Shiel and nabbing a Free Agent who fulfills a need such as Jarryn Geary. I'd give Cross another year. And with Hogan set to emerge and Trengove hopefully not just returning but returning in better shape we'll be looking pretty good. Natural improvement from Salem, Toumpas, Viney, Tyson and Kent should see our midfield go to another level. But it sounds like we might be in the market for a ruckman. Who and how?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

That draft pick will not fill the void left in 2015.

There are no definites in this game.

Frawley is a good player and 2015 will most likely be tougher for his absence.

All indicators are pointing at the MFC improving next year. With or Without Frawley. Sure I agree if we use the compo pick at the ND, then that player will not directly fill the structural hole left by Frawley. However, we'll have Hogan ready to come in. So there's your structural hole filled. Plus another top draft pick waiting in the wings under much better leaders, coaches and culture than what Frawley was exposed to when he came to us.

There are a number of options available with the compo pick we'll be getting if - hypothetically speaking - Frawley decides to leave and my belief is that whilst I'm sure the club would like to hold onto him, it will be no big loss with him gone because of the potential to nail either a fantastic mid or player, trade for a couple of solid role players or go to the draft with another first rounder.

Nobody would have imagined our backline would cope this well without Frawley being down there but look at what has happened? Dunn is playing the role better than Frawley. He's taking the big boys but also being damaging on the rebound and as our kick in general down there. Our defence is just as solid without him and whilst it's helped by the fact that our defence as a team has improved significantly, it still shows that Frawley is easily replaceable. And that our team will not suffer without him.

He has been shifted forward obviously to cover for the absence left by Clark and Hogan. Again, his job at times has been admirable, but I've already mentioned we'll have Hogan back before long to take that position. Which leaves Frawley to either go back to full back, or continue to take a post in the forwardline.

My question is as follows. If he decides to leave for the money, do you not think that with the return of a first round compo pick, our club will not be able to add even more potency to the list next year to improve our side further? Keep in mind Hogan will be taking the position Frawley is currently sitting in.

It's as if you think there's nothing in it for us if Frawley leaves.

I don't think he is a superstar by any means - but you seriously dislike him. He is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Not all footballers are leaders and not all footballers are culture changers but his onfield performances are not grossly overated ( this year) by most- he has been good in quite a few games - not great. You do get that he is 5 games into the playing the hardest position on the ground ? Your judgement is clouded.

(4th in our team for contested marks and 2nd for contested marks inside 50, averages 8 marks a game)

Read above.

Please, give the stats a rest.

His value to our list as stated by many demonlanders is grossly overrated. I stick by that.

He's a player that goes through the motions. In the same way Sylvia used to.

I'm sure you would have been in the 'Frawley's absence in our backline will be telling'.

Full back is his natural position and the position that earned him AA honours one year.

Do you not think we'll be fine without him next year once Hogan comes in?

That's what I'm interested in here. Not his [censored] stats.

Steve's just trying to feebly protect his own fragile heart.

Yes, you've really nailed it...

Look outside your little demon box Machsy.

There's a whole world of opportunities waiting big guy.

Edited June 20, 2014 by stevethemanjordan

[Sir Why You Little 36,628]

Frawley has not been moved back to defence once since Round 2.

That does say a lot to me.

I voted that Frawley would stay but that was before watching the DeeTV Interview

If we get on a winning streak Chip might stay.

[Ted Lasso 18,779]

Win this week and the beat the doggies the week after and suddenly things could be even more positive

[Maggot 1977 263]

I to am not a Matt Rossa fan. Us WA people get saturated with Eagles coverage and for mine he is nothing more than a down hill skier who is tagged out of a game and pushed off a contested easily. I think we should look elsewhere at the end of the year. However in light of what Roos and the coaching staff have accomplished with our list this year I will trust there judgement 100%

[Maggot 1977 263]

I to am not a Matt Rossa fan. Us WA people get saturated with Eagles coverage and for mine he is nothing more than a down hill skier who is tagged out of a game and pushed off a contested easily. I think we should look elsewhere at the end of the year. However in light of what Roos and the coaching staff have accomplished with our list this year I will trust there judgement 100%

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,283]

This is how I see the scenario playing out.

Either we win 5-6 games on the back end of this season and finish with 9-10 wins, Chip will then have to see the opportunity for the side and will stay.

Or we only win another 1-3 games for the season and he will leave, we get a first rounder for him and have picks 4 and 5 or something like that.

I would like him to stay personally, but if he goes we will be well compensated.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

All indicators are pointing at the MFC improving next year. With or Without Frawley. Sure I agree if we use the compo pick at the ND, then that player will not directly fill the structural hole left by Frawley. However, we'll have Hogan ready to come in. So there's your structural hole filled. Plus another top draft pick waiting in the wings under much better leaders, coaches and culture than what Frawley was exposed to when he came to us.

There are a number of options available with the compo pick we'll be getting if - hypothetically speaking - Frawley decides to leave and my belief is that whilst I'm sure the club would like to hold onto him, it will be no big loss with him gone because of the potential to nail either a fantastic mid or player, trade for a couple of solid role players or go to the draft with another first rounder.

Nobody would have imagined our backline would cope this well without Frawley being down there but look at what has happened? Dunn is playing the role better than Frawley. He's taking the big boys but also being damaging on the rebound and as our kick in general down there. Our defence is just as solid without him and whilst it's helped by the fact that our defence as a team has improved significantly, it still shows that Frawley is easily replaceable. And that our team will not suffer without him.

He has been shifted forward obviously to cover for the absence left by Clark and Hogan. Again, his job at times has been admirable, but I've already mentioned we'll have Hogan back before long to take that position. Which leaves Frawley to either go back to full back, or continue to take a post in the forwardline.

My question is as follows. If he decides to leave for the money, do you not think that with the return of a first round compo pick, our club will not be able to add even more potency to the list next year to improve our side further? Keep in mind Hogan will be taking the position Frawley is currently sitting in.

It's as if you think there's nothing in it for us if Frawley leaves.

Read above.

Please, give the stats a rest.

His value to our list as stated by many demonlanders is grossly overrated. I stick by that.

He's a player that goes through the motions. In the same way Sylvia used to.

I'm sure you would have been in the 'Frawley's absence in our backline will be telling'.

Full back is his natural position and the position that earned him AA honours one year.

Do you not think we'll be fine without him next year once Hogan comes in?

That's what I'm interested in here. Not his [censored] stats.

Yes, you've really nailed it...

Look outside your little demon box Machsy.

There's a whole world of opportunities waiting big guy.

We are banking on two things here 1) Hogan plays and performs really well 2) Hogan stays; the problem is that he may not play as well as we hoped he would and he may not stay.

If he plays well and stays we are on the way, if he doesn't or leaves and we lose Chip we are back to a one man forward line and if Dawes has a problem with his calf again we are stuffed.

This is more than Chip leaving, it is about our ability to keep players, especially if Hogan leaves as well and it may mean the difference between us having, potentially one of the best forward lines in the competition to having just another ordinary one, like Carlton, with Waite as their only big forward.

This is a big decision for both Chip and the club.

[ignition. 1,454]

I don't think he is a superstar by any means - but you seriously dislike him. He is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Not all footballers are leaders and not all footballers are culture changers but his onfield performances are not grossly overated ( this year) by most- he has been good in quite a few games - not great. You do get that he is 5 games into the playing the hardest position on the ground ? Your judgement is clouded.

(4th in our team for contested marks and 2nd for contested marks inside 50, averages 8 marks a game)

Ahhh I'm a sucker for stats, excellent points nutbean.

[nutbean 8,838]

I'm sure you would have been in the 'Frawley's absence in our backline will be telling'.

Do you not think we'll be fine without him next year once Hogan comes in?

That's what I'm interested in here. Not his [censored] stats.

Im in the "sure that his absense in the backline will telling camp" ? - thanks for telling me what camp I'm in - show me where I said that because you'd be wrong. At the beginning of this year Frawley's absense from anywhere wouldn't have been telling because he has been so average for the past two years. What I have posted regularly is that I was giving everyone a clean slate now regarding the last two years - pretending they didn't happen because besides Jones and Dunn and Matt Jones - everyone else went backwards.

I am in the camp that everyone was at the start again, fresh clean page, and Roos and his football department will take most of the footballers forward or Roos will cut them.

I am not concerned whether Hogans comes in or not - will we be worse off if he leaves ?? Here's my answer - 3 years ago he showed his talent. He had 2 pretty horrible years as did most. This year he has been more than serviceable learning a new role. The hardest role in football - playing CHF. We will be worse off if we jettison a footballer that has shown his talent in the past and is improving under Roos from his performances last year. If he continues to improve to his AA form of the past then we will absolutely miss him. That is a a big if - but no bigger than asking me if we will miss him when we a get a footballer into the team who has a bad back for most of this year and is yet to play a senior game.

[ignition. 1,454]

I can see quite clearly the good points Steve makes and just the same I can see quite clearly the points made by rpfc, nutbean and Goodvibes.

For starters Steve I really don't think Frawley is overrated, on many occasions I have seen him shut down big name forwards during years since his 2010 AA selection. I also believe what he has shown in his new role is very promising, keeping in mind it's taken Dunn 2 - 3 years to gain quality form in the backline since his switch. So if Frawley can develop his skill set as a swingman he will become a genuine weapon. Also players at the club (a recent Dunn interview) have mentioned that they will expect him to shift back into a more defensive role once the forward line gains more structure, so I suspect he will predominately be a defender first, forward second. In that regards (if he stays), we may be one of the only teams with defenders capable of shutting down the phenomenally tall Sydney forward line consisting of Franklin, Tippett, Reid and Goodes along with Pyke swinging through from time to time. The WCE also have a potent forward line.

As Goodvibes said perfectly, if we can retain Frawley it gives us a greater opportunity to explore free agency (FA) and target opposition players without compromising any potential FA compensation. It will also help create a good image of the club for fans and more importantly opposition players worth targeting.

If he is to leave I am sure the club already has a good quality back up plan in place, and there should be plenty of money in the salary cap from the loss of him and Clark along with whatever FA compensation trade bait. So as I'm am not exactly worried by his potential loss I don't consider it ideal. YES the club could finish ahead via this path and if it happens I hope they do, but what we currently have is a very good key defender that are hard to come by and there is still the risk no worthy deal is made during trade week or a replacement draftee (worst possibility of all) will be years off or worse yet an absolute flop.

I want to see the club using FA to their advantage rather than constantly trying to defend our FA when they reach that prime age. If not it will be a continuous vicious cycle.

[rpfc 28,048]

It's as if you think there's nothing in it for us if Frawley leaves.

It's as if you think there's nothing in it for us if Frawley stays...

I can see your argument but it is not such a 'slam dunk' - at a base level - keeping good players is a good thing and not something I would metaphorically shrug at.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

'swingman', 'slam dunk', 'roster', 'coast to coast', 'press', 'franchise player' . . . .

Grrrrr

[Deemotivated 550]

This is how I see the scenario playing out.

Either we win 5-6 games on the back end of this season and finish with 9-10 wins, Chip will then have to see the opportunity for the side and will stay.

Or we only win another 1-3 games for the season and he will leave, we get a first rounder for him and have picks 4 and 5 or something like that.

I would like him to stay personally, but if he goes we will be well compensated.

Looking at wins is a serious double edge sword... Richmond won 15 games last year... Nek minit.

[chook fowler 19,249]

Frawley will now look churlish if he doesn't sign in light of the Hogan extension. Can't really use the " See how we are going at seasons end " excuse now.

[Pennant St Dee 12,659]

My idea outcome would be to keep chip, pick up Mundy and Rosa as free agents, and trade pick 5 and 25 for cognilio and tommlinson

Life would be good if that happened

Unsure on the above deal and giving away our first two picks in the draft, I'd want something in return. Coniglio can play how good can he be really not sure on what I have seen of Petracca could be a very very good pick up if available at 5/6. If these boys are out of contract the first round pick is not something we should give up because Tyson was signed to a two year contract and we managed to get 9 in return.

The money we would be forking out on Mundy who will be over 30, would pay for 2 good solid players. Last info I had was Rosa was keen to stay at Meth Coast and his deal was only being held up by Nic Nats deal. Rosa is a good powerful hard running mid who would be good at the right price

[Adam The God 29,340]

Not wanting to take this thread off topic but am I alone in not rating Matt Rosa. He seems to have many admirers around here.

Keeping Chip is essential. Firstly, we keep avery good key position player in his prime who now has the ability to swing forward. Secondly, staying would be a statement to the supporter base and the competition and disgruntled players at other clubs that this is team heading in the right direction. Finally, if Chip stays we're more likely to get active in the Free Agent market.

My dream scenario is keeping Chip and McDonald, trading pick 5/6/7 for Dylan Shiel and nabbing a Free Agent who fulfills a need such as Jarryn Geary. I'd give Cross another year. And with Hogan set to emerge and Trengove hopefully not just returning but returning in better shape we'll be looking pretty good. Natural improvement from Salem, Toumpas, Viney, Tyson and Kent should see our midfield go to another level. But it sounds like we might be in the market for a ruckman. Who and how?

Great post, Goodvibes. Completely agree. If this all comes to fruition, it'll be a dream.

[rpfc 28,048]

'swingman', 'slam dunk', 'roster', 'coast to coast', 'press', 'franchise player' . . . .

Grrrrr

I used 'slam dunk' as a reference to CIA head Tenet's assertion that the case for Iraq having WMD.

No-one probably got it, but talking in blanket terms of fact when there are no hard facts - is not a good practice.

And people use those US terms because they can't be bothered thinking up ones themselves, and because the US sporting landscape is far more developed. Concepts like FA and equalisation will only continue to be brought up.