I don't remember jetta doing much wrong - he didn't do much but I don't think he was beaten too often?

Ball use was ok - anyone care to fill me in

Just hatred or just shite?

I agree. I must have to watch the game again because I can't remember him doing too much wrong. Didn't get much of it but I like his aggression and there are worse offenders offensively. Strauss is very good by foot he might be worth another try with us currently having competent forwards. Blease too because he takes the game on. The problem was previously he'd break the lines and then screw himself into the ground because there was no one in the same half of the ground as him.

I think we should target people that can perform in that role at state level. It seems to have worked with Hibberd and Suckling

No doubt - agree with you there

But it won't help is in rd 6 though

How about we just pick our best 22. Salem must give us more than Jetta, Terlich, McKenzie, Evans, M Jones etc.

On the contrary, how about we look at the bigger picture, not just next week?

Would like to see Vince thrown in the guts more this week, too. Round one against the Saints he was at nearly every centre bounce, and he looked like a match-winner. The last couple of weeks (especially against the Suns), he was spending too much time either forward or on the flanks.

We need class in the middle.

Again people pre-conceived ideas on players are quite amusing. Perception that Strauss is not an elite kick and is caught in headlights at AFL level yet pretty sure he lead our kicking efficiency last year even on the small amount of games played. 95% de on the weekend is insane last week any way you cut it at any level. His issue has been his inability to play body on body in defence previously. His kicking is elite. I would take either of Strauss or Clisby over Terlich or Jetta at present. In fact I would play both and rotate Strauss through the flanks and wing rotations.

glad Tippett isn't ready

Wont need to panic and send Chip back now

Not that Paul Roos has ever panicked

I reckon we can win this game - anyone else feel the same?

Both done not a whole lot to date this season?

C'mon mate said I was mucking around - I like Grimes but I reckon he's over rated - ok defender poor with the ball and a cat when it comes taking on pressure

If we want to be a good side we need an upgrade and since Suckling/Birchall or Bartel/Enright aren't available i'll guess we'll have to choose from one of the 40 not already in the side

Do not agree.

Outside of this place, Grimes is not seen in the right light at all - he's underrated.

You say he is an 'ok' defender, 'poor' with the ball, and whatever the hell a 'cat' is under pressure.

With that write up, you should be 'disgusted' that he is captain of your club.

Why don't you watch him closely and then look at your descriptors - I think you will be disgusted with 'ok', 'poor', and 'cat'...

Jetta, Terlich, Evans, McKenzie and Watts were all substandard on Sunday and are known quantities without the credits in the bank. We need to make changes. If ever there was a time to bring in a young player coming off a BOG VFL game this is it.

Salem may be better in a few weeks’ time, but we are crying out for a bit of pace and skill at the moment. He will probably struggle, but how many first game players are up with the intensity of AFL? The fastest way to get up to speed is to play at the level.

Plenty are Crouch just won the rising star! Where is Melbournes rising star?

I though Jetta was woeful in the first half.

However his second half was much better and gave good drive off half back. Plus he can actually use the footy coming out of defence.

He also should've got that obvious free kick that wasn't paid.

I'd give him another game this week.

Plenty are Crouch just won the rising star! Where is Melbournes rising star?

Wow.

The ignorance.

For those calling for Salem to play next week, take a step back and have a think about how many draft picks we've blooded too early over the years in hope that they'll magically be the ones to lift our side on their own. Remember how it worked out? Of course there was some terrible drafting, but we know from watching strong clubs that developing young players at a level below is paramount to their improvement, belief and self confidence.

We are one of the worst clubs within the AFL with one of the weakest lists. We have arguably the worst leadership and we all know about the environment and culture of the joint pre Roos/Jackson.

With that in mind, who thinks we should take reactionary approach this week and blood another first year player (who's had barely half an AFL pre-season), based off the form of ONE very good game and one decent game the week before?

I will be absolutely stunned if Salem is picked this week against one of the strongest clubs in the competition when they're just hitting form..

A carpenter doesn't start building houses until he's served his apprenticeship, especially when his co-workers are not fantastic carpenters themselves...

Whilst there are different case studies, (JKH for example), Salem is a different player, has had a limited pre-season and plays a completely different position.

He will and should continue to develop at VFL the right way to be given the best chance to succeed at the top level.

I though Jetta was woeful in the first half.

However his second half was much better and gave good drive off half back. Plus he can actually use the footy coming out of defence.

He also should've got that obvious free kick that wasn't paid.

I'd give him another game this week.

There's a thing a player playing his first game for the season at AFL level working his way into the game....whatever next

The only reason Salem pays this week is as sub asa reward for a solid first three gangs, with the understanding he goes back to Casey next week to work on what he learned about AFL and how much better he needs to be. It would be an opportunity to get a taste of AFL speed footy and the chance to play a half of footy to give his body a breather early in the season. I don't think that will happen for another couple of weeks though.

The only reason Salem pays this week is as sub asa reward for a solid first three gangs, with the understanding he goes back to Casey next week to work on what he learned about AFL and how much better he needs to be. It would be an opportunity to get a taste of AFL speed footy and the chance to play a half of footy to give his body a breather early in the season. I don't think that will happen for another couple of weeks though.

If Salem is handled the correct way, and I'm sure he will be. When he comes up he will be ready and I'd be very surprised to see him back at Casey after that with the exception of coming back from injury.

They won't bring him up for a taste and if he needs a breather he will get a week off.

Do not agree.

Outside of this place, Grimes is not seen in the right light at all - he's underrated.

You say he is an 'ok' defender, 'poor' with the ball, and whatever the hell a 'cat' is under pressure.

With that write up, you should be 'disgusted' that he is captain of your club.

Why don't you watch him closely and then look at your descriptors - I think you will be disgusted with 'ok', 'poor', and 'cat'...

Not that i feel I have to justify my opinion to anyone but thats how I see him and I've been watching him a while - I am commenting on a big hole in our side and unfortunetly G Train is in the sights

Grimes plays like Nick Maxwell without the height - great on his own but under pressure he sucks. he's prone to turn it over and I actually cringe when he has the ball.

I don't care if you disagree - yeh he's our co-captian and he's not up to AFL standard at this stage of his career. Im not saying he won't make or he won't ever get better and grow but I reckon, no actually I'm pretty confident he only gets a game due to our lack of depth and leadership - Probably a tremendous leader but a sub par player - aka nick Maxwell

And [censored] yeh watch some replays when Grimes has the ball under pressure he's like a cat - dosen't take on the pressure and continaully turns the ball over

PS - we have a lot of holes in our list still I am not solely picking on Grimes - just pointing out a major weakness in our side - Ball use in the back 6

If Salem is handled the correct way, and I'm sure he will be. When he comes up he will be ready and I'd be very surprised to see him back at Casey after that with the exception of coming back from injury.

They won't bring him up for a taste and if he needs a breather he will get a week off.

That's a fair point. I haven't seen him play at Casey, if he is good enough to slot in at AFL that's great.

I don't think there is any shame in understanding AFL pace then having the opportunity to work at VFL knowing the standard required, and the sub does help provide that option if required. It is a learning tool that may apply to some players, but as you pointed out maybe not Salem.

If Salem is handled the correct way, and I'm sure he will be. When he comes up he will be ready and I'd be very surprised to see him back at Casey after that with the exception of coming back from injury.

They won't bring him up for a taste and if he needs a breather he will get a week off.

Agree with this.

Roos was very clear on how he was going to handle the list and the new recruits

Roos wants the kids... and I suspect some of our slightly older recruits that have been mismanaged along the way to develop their skills in the VFL... but also to work on the non-negotiables, culture, standards etc...

I also don't think that he is going to play someone like Jetta for a single week only to drop him for a quiet game... he will give players a few games once they have earned the right (through good form, and who can play the role required of them) to find their feet in the seniors.

I also don't think we will see Evans dropped after playing as sub for a couple of weeks. I suspect he will get a full game in the next week or so, and that JKH might get another game or so before giving him some time in the VFL to work on some parts of his game, ad to rest up from playing AFL etc...

A few too many people on these boards seem very flighty about things,... which is the way the club has worked in the last 5-7 years... Roos seems a lot more deliberate in how players earn games in the seniors, and teaching kids to play his style through their time in the VFL.

Salem in particular I would be amazed if he is played in the first half of this year... He had a great game in the VFL... but I think Roos won't play him until he is confident that Salem can play that style week in week out. How many players have we seen come into the seniors at the swans and have an immediate impact, because they hone their craft and know exactly the role required of them through playing in the seconds... We play Salem this week and he'll get smashed, whats that going to do for confidence?

Not that i feel I have to justify my opinion to anyone but thats how I see him and I've been watching him a while - I am commenting on a big hole in our side and unfortunetly G Train is in the sights

Grimes plays like Nick Maxwell without the height - great on his own but under pressure he sucks. he's prone to turn it over and I actually cringe when he has the ball.

I don't care if you disagree - yeh he's our co-captian and he's not up to AFL standard at this stage of his career. Im not saying he won't make or he won't ever get better and grow but I reckon, no actually I'm pretty confident he only gets a game due to our lack of depth and leadership - Probably a tremendous leader but a sub par player - aka nick Maxwell

And [censored] yeh watch some replays when Grimes has the ball under pressure he's like a cat - dosen't take on the pressure and continaully turns the ball over

PS - we have a lot of holes in our list still I am not solely picking on Grimes - just pointing out a major weakness in our side - Ball use in the back 6

I don't think he is a 'hole' on our list.

I can see what you are saying, but jeez, the words you are using grate with me.

Not that i feel I have to justify my opinion to anyone but thats how I see him and I've been watching him a while - I am commenting on a big hole in our side and unfortunetly G Train is in the sights

Grimes plays like Nick Maxwell without the height - great on his own but under pressure he sucks. he's prone to turn it over and I actually cringe when he has the ball.

I don't care if you disagree - yeh he's our co-captian and he's not up to AFL standard at this stage of his career. Im not saying he won't make or he won't ever get better and grow but I reckon, no actually I'm pretty confident he only gets a game due to our lack of depth and leadership - Probably a tremendous leader but a sub par player - aka nick Maxwell

And [censored] yeh watch some replays when Grimes has the ball under pressure he's like a cat - dosen't take on the pressure and continaully turns the ball over

PS - we have a lot of holes in our list still I am not solely picking on Grimes - just pointing out a major weakness in our side - Ball use in the back 6

Whilst I don't agree that he should be dropped, I don't disagree with you on his skill levels, his impact on games, and that he can make me nervous when he has the ball in hand. I have a hunch that when Roos was bemoaning the basic skill errors on display against the Weagles, that Grimes would have known that his skills were not up to par that day, and to be fair he was not flash against GWS either, but to his credit was very good against Carlton.

RPFC Don't disagree that he is a leader at our club, and that he puts in his all week in week out, but the comparison to Maxwell at least early in his captaincy years isn't too far off the mark.

Compare Jones and Grimes to the captains of the other AFL clubs, and Jones looks like the leader that our players look to when we are under pressure, and he also seems to be the player that tries to lift the team when things aren't going our way...

I don't get that from Grimes at least not nearly to the same degree as I do with Jones at present..., that doesn't mean I don't think he should be our captain, (I think our club needs co captains at the moment) but I think he needs his football to come up another level to show he can lead the team on the field as well as off the field.

I don't think he is a 'hole' on our list.

I can see what you are saying, but jeez, the words you are using grate with me.

Fair call - i have been pretty harsh and I accept your comments

All I wanted to say is that if we want to be a good side (aka Cats or Hawks) then Grimes may not cut it.... thats all I am saying not trying to get him delisted or anything just an opinion

Grimes may improve with more confidence and tutoring under Roos - I really hope he does - but IMO atm not good enough and he's not alone at the MFC, I simply wanted to make comment that we need some good ball using smalls in the back 6

With - T Mac - Gorgeiou, Grimes, Terlich (frawley & Pedo) and I can't think of the others at the moment but none stand out as good ball users or even competent ball users for some of them - it's a real weakness in our side. As I've said above if we want to be a better side we need to improve this area... i accept it won't happen in rd 6 or overnight but it's a reality we shouldn't hide from

PS - my query on grimes is he's a great leader (obviously being elected captian etc by the boys) but he has average ball use, and is subject to turn it over under pressure and is not a mid... I really think he's struggling to find a spot... hopefully as the year goes longer he gets some confidence but to be harsh on him IMO he is struggling

Fair call - i have been pretty harsh and I accept your comments

All I wanted to say is that if we want to be a good side (aka Cats or Hawks) then Grimes may not cut it.... thats all I am saying not trying to get him delisted or anything just an opinion

Grimes may improve with more confidence and tutoring under Roos - I really hope he does - but IMO atm not good enough and he's not alone I simply make the comment on our ball use in the back 6

Grimes may also improve if he had a better midfield as well as better players around him in defence. I keep thinking he's trying to do too much...mind his own man, intercept, be the distributor off half-back, plug a hole in the midfield on occasions, lead the team, etc. Overall, I think he's doing pretty well.

Yes, his disposal is inconsistent (rather than consistently bad) and he does give one palpitations when he has the ball in hand because of it.

I am not a massive Grimes fan but he would be picked ahead of Evans, Jetta, Spencer, Terlich, McKenzie, Pederson, Georgiou, Watts, JKH, Bail and M Jones.

Grimes may also improve if he had a better midfield as well as better players around him in defence. I keep thinking he's trying to do too much...mind his own man, intercept, be the distributor off half-back, plug a hole in the midfield on occasions, lead the team, etc. Overall, I think he's doing pretty well.

Yes, his disposal is inconsistent (rather than consistently bad) and he does give one palpitations when he has the ball in hand because of it.

I hope he does and I agree with what you've said I accept the MFCs form hasn't been easy on Grimes's development

what i disagree with is your last statement - Blokes like Toumpas and even Terlich have shown the ability to use the ball and take the game on under extreme pressure.... IMO Grimes hasn't

But as I said - I agree that with better support Grimes will be better, and hopefully he can find some confidence, but if he can't improve I think he'll struggle to find a spot if we find players to fill those holes

Grimes was the biggest disappointment for me over the weekend, coming off the back of the week before. In particular, to not lay a single tackle as captain of the club is inexcusable.

His ball use has improved, but I can't help feel we will need better players than him in order to take a significant step forward. How much improvement does he have left in him at this stage?

No changes.. if Salems ready or Bleasey bring them in if there is an injury to a similar sized player.Garlo has to come in at some stage and Georgiou would be unlucky but thats how it goes.

Terlich Watts Jetta JKH all did enough imo. Team stats were all in the negative ( bar hitouts ) and Roos wants more tackles , will he get that from dropping any of these guys?