Post match discussion

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

I think what often happens is that players don't understand what they have to do until they actually do it.

Many players often think that they are working as hard as they can, because at the end of the game they are tired and sore. When it's suggested that they aren't working hard enough they don't believe it because they are working as hard as they think they can. And then, one day, they run a bit harder and realise that they had more in them. Sometimes they never do and sometimes they actually are working as hard as they can.

Where does he lie in all of this? It's hard to tell from the outside, but the club should have test results that will show what he theoretically should be able to do.

Also, the lack of subtlety in any debate on this site is a worry. The fact that Song and J VINEY FAN!!!OMG11!! think that I'm saying he played well today is troubling.

i don't think that at all.

[Axis of Bob 11,875]

i don't think that at all.

Sorry, I must have misinterpreted when you asked me if I was Jack Watts.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Sorry, I must have misinterpreted when you asked me if I was Jack Watts.

i just thought with your tsunami of support for him, that you might actually be him. But you aren't. So i shall carry on.

[Axis of Bob 11,875]

i just thought with your tsunami of support for him, that you might actually be him. But you aren't. So i shall carry on.

My "tsunami of support" consisted of:

- Saying that if he is left alone then he is a very damaging user of the footy,

- Saying that his running capacity has improved since he arrived at the club.

- ...................

I don't see how either of these are in any way controversial. It's just the fact that I said these things after he had a bad game, rather than a good game, that blinds people to what I actually said.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

There's a difference between not playing well and embarrassing the jumper. Today the efforts he put in disgraced the jumper he wore. To get outbustled by a guy 20cm shorter in a marking contest, firstly losing front position and secondly losing the contest is inexcusable. That was just one example. The fact is he just doesn't put in enough effort and it doesn't even come down to putting his body on the line. It's just the way he attacks the footy with half hearted limp wristedness like he is having a kick in the park which drives me insane. You can't help it if you're not as skilled or talented as others but you can help not having the workrate and intensity any the contest. Imagine if Watts had just half the will of Nick Riewoldt who busts his guts until he spews.

Unfortunately Gonzo what we have with Watts is a "two faced" footballer.

When he is given the ball 5 meters (or more) in the clear, or he is matched with a similar sized small build opponent that he feels comfortable on in a one on one marking/or ground ball contest (again in the clear without a pack looming down on him from side or behind) we see a very accomplished user and finisher with the ball, IF he happens to get it.

Then there's the other side when he doesn't have the ball is being checked closely, or...is going into a pack to contest and try and get the ball for himself or contest a mark in a pack (ie., himself plus 2 or more solid players contesting). Committment to the contest...putting the body on the line for the team. Just seems to lack the will to compete and fight tooth and nail in a hard pack contest, marking, loose ball or stoppage situation. In addition his second efforts after a first up marking contest or tackle are virtually non existent or just so lacking in intensity that it has no impact on the play or opponent. And many of his tackles are the non body contact ones, throwing out an arm at the last second as you run past the player with the ball, rather than hitting in heavy at the hips and driving the shoulders/bod into the tackle, dropping knees and bringing player to the ground. This will often end in a high tackle and a resulting free kick to opponent. I've seen this very tackle attempt so many times now throughout his career. I thought he might eventually rid himself of it and start nailing guys around the hips etc. But i've yet to see it on a consistent basis anyway.

One example today which was very disappointing, but not unusual, there was a quick kick into HF from the middle in the first quarter, and sure Watts was behind his player (Warnock i think), but could still have made an attempt to impact the contest and bring the ball to ground. He made a half hearted attempt to get hand on the back of Warnock, and seriously, that was about it. Warnock marked easily and proceeded to lay off.

Unfortunately i see Watts as a school boy....still. Playing high school type footy. Albeit his skills are leaps and bounds ahead of most at high school level. But from an effort/intensity/physicality point of view, i hate to say it but that's around about where he is at right now.

Pure talent (ie., in Wattsy's case...ball use/evasiveness through a bit of traffick) can only take you so far in this game.

Time to look elsewhere.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Rusty Nails

[Dee93 19]

Thought today's game was fairly hard to judge.

Given Gold Coast's first half dominance, we should have been blown out of the water. But we were given reprieve after reprieve, and eventually turned the tide. We played the second half primarily on our terms, and had many chances through gettable and crucial set shots (Dawes, Frawley, Howe). We won't get that lucky again so we really needed to pinch it - until round 18 the only winnable games I can see are the Dogs and Richmond.

Positives were we didn't drop our heads and an 8 point loss is certainly a vast improvement on many of last years efforts, including the corresponding game v the Suns. Despite their missed opportunities, the Dawes/Frawley combination looks promising and at least gives us a chance to win games.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,099]

A few posts here have said Viney got 0 tackles today yet this example seems to contradict that?

I don't think they count them if the players gets the ball away.

As for Watts, what I would love to see is the leadership group dropping him rather than the coach. That would be a huge statement that the culture Roos wants is beginning to take with the players setting the standards. Either way, I don't think he should be playing seniors until he can show he wants to be in the jumper, but for mine it would be better coming from the playing group.

I will add an incident that really annoyed me. Watts was chasing a player through the middle. His man looked to kick hurriedly due to the pressure, and the moment he motioned that way Watts stopped chasing. As a result, his man was suddenly not under pressure an decided to keep running and nailed a pass into the forward 50 under no pressure at all. If Watts had just followed through for a few more steps they would have had a rushed kick into the forward half instead of a mark inside 50. Again, lack of effort and intent.

I know I'm going on about this a bit, but the guy can do so much for the team when he puts in, it's painful to watch him plod around not giving a stuff.

[Adam The God 30,539]

You will see from my username that I am biased but from where does all of this angst about Georgiou's game come? Outsized all day with perfect F50 deliveries for his opponent but tried. Has not put a foot wrong all season until today. Mature-age rookie with no skills and all heart. We have a #1 draft pick with all of the skills and no heart. Guess who I'd want "in the trenches" with me? Guess who Roos prefers?

Thought Georgiou was our best back. Certainly the most reliable. I dreaded every time Tommy Mac, Terlich or Grimes got the ball and expected a turn over.

[chook fowler 19,657]

I think he plays within himself 'Axis', if anyone can get him out of this habit Roos will. He's a work in progress, hope he succeeds because we could sure do with his nous with the ball.

If you said he plays WITH himself I think we could agree

[Travis Boots 157]

From the team we sent out today i cannot any of these players becoming genuine afl standard player

Watts (shirks the contest, terrible centre of gravity, so frustrating considering his silky skills)

N.Jetta

Terlich

Bail

Mckenzie

Spencer

Pederson ( has been decent recently, perservere for now)

Mckenzie

Evans

M.jones

We're looking at least 3 seasons before we're able to put out a team who could genuinely compete and thats providing we have moderate to good success and trade and draft time

The 2nd half showing was pleasing, would have ended in a 60 point drubbing not long

[robbiefrom13 894]

"This world/game is a will to power and nothing more and Watts just doesn't have the will to win." Really? (And on Easter Sunday, too!)

Whatever happens next, the fact is that Watts has been dropped before, and returned playing the better for it. A supporter would not be calling him names like some on here.

"A will to power and nothing more" - thank goodness that's not the world I live in. I wonder what they'd say if you ran that sort of rhetoric past Robbie Flower, or Bruce Doull, or Peter Hudson, etc. "Triumph of the will", next - is that what we want? I'm enjoying seeing Paul Roos build his sort of culture, with his sort of values and world-view. I'll trust his approach to Jack Watts.

[jnrmac 20,205]

Jordie was woeful today.

Gave away too many frees. Tackled high. Poor delivery.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,448]

Was just on the AFL website. At the top where you can flick through the main story's there was the match report for the Demons v Suns.

Accompanied by a picture of Georgio on the ground after being tackled, the Suns defender had both his arms wrapped up in the tackle forcing the ball to spill out. Click on the story, there are a couple more photos to go with it. My favourite being the one where I think it's Vince tackles Swallow but only around the waist allowing him to offload a handball as Grimes watches on.

[Fat Tony 5,290]

Why was Spencer off the ground for so long in the third quarter and then went forward?

[chook fowler 19,657]

Was just on the AFL website. At the top where you can flick through the main story's there was the match report for the Demons v Suns.

Accompanied by a picture of Georgio on the ground after being tackled, the Suns defender had both his arms wrapped up in the tackle forcing the ball to spill out. Click on the story, there are a couple more photos to go with it. My favourite being the one where I think it's Vince tackles Swallow but only around the waist allowing him to offload a handball as Grimes watches on.

r

The tackling was woeful - both for the low numbers, half hearted attempts and poor technique. You would think the coaches would be furious

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Anyone who defends Watts' game but watched it on TV needs to understand that they would have missed 90% of his soft, lazy and weak efforts around the ground.

Most of if happened off the ball so unless you were at the game, please understand this.

[Pipefitter 2,180]

I really can't believe how well Dawesy is playing considering he had no preseason. He is so much better than i rated him at collingwood.

[Gippsland Dee 367]

If it wasn't for that 2nd qtr we could've won. Won 3 out of the 4 qtrs, and yes they were inaccurate, but it doesn't matter, 3 qtrs won are still 3 qtrs won! Dawes, Crawley and jones were easily our best imo followed by viney. Would've been good if Dawes was more accurate, but he hasn't had any preseason so I'll cut him some slack. Flawless goal on the run was very nice. jones was best for us and was the one who kept us in it all day and got us to a possession where we could've won it, unfortunately it wasn't to be. As for the umpiring, that free kick given to ablett was a disgrace. That happens at every stoppage all the time and nothing ever happens, but because it's ablett they just "had" to give a free to him. the same umpire made a huge number of shocking decisions, and while a fair few didn't go our way a fair few still went our way when they weren't there.

[monoccular 17,607]

I really can't believe how well Dawesy is playing considering he had no preseason. He is so much better than i rated him at collingwood.

...and so out of character the two missed "gimmies" especially considering his two inspirational 50+ meter ones last week. He will be ferry disappointed with himself, but also has the strength if character to be the better for it. (I wonder if his ex schoolmate will react in similar fashion to his deficiencies from yesterday??? Does he share the same strength of character: if so we have yet to see it)

[DemonOX 8,809]

We were 0 and 5 last season and getting belted by anywhere between 50-150 points.

This season we are 1 and 4 with only 1 belting but being in the other 4 matches for longer and obviously winning one.

That's an improvement no matter which way u spin it or in what language u say it

[jackaub 1,402]

Two things stood out to me yesterday

1) we fumbled the ball all day hardly saw a clean pick up

2) Our tackling and ability to stop the ball is the worst in the league

We have serious skill shortages in the playing group and it will take a long time to address it

[jazza 1,323]

i understand point kick ins,mmmmmi think i understand them.

yesterday i noticed after a point if we had a loose player in the square with footy in hand and an outlet 40 metres away, we still waited and played the set up kick in.

found this very unusual,when the outlet is sitting there to take and we go to the wait and set play.

i understand PR has his ways and wants them adhered too,but its a bit much for me,

taking the fast outlet just releases all the pressure off the full back line.

[Jarka 767]

Bunch of idiots here spewing the same old rhetoric about Watts and his lack of 'hardness'.

It shows your ignorance more than anything else. For some reason you think he's capable of attacking the footy like Jones/Viney, yet still want him to have the skills of a player like Pendlebury.

You get one or the other in the majority of players. There aren't many out there with both skillsets except for players like Ablett. He's an outside player.

Pull your heads in. He had one bad game and you're calling for him to be delisted. Pathetic.

Don't be an ignorant imbecile. The days of players having one set role has well and truly gone in modern footballer, now 'outside' footballers are expected to go in when it's their turn. Give me an example of another player who consistently refuses to attack the ball the way Watts continues to avoid any physical contest, hell even Gibbs is harder that Watts. It's laughable that you could find excuses for the way he is so easily pushed out of a contest. It's one thing to have a bad game, but to show no effort or desire at all is terrible at this level.

No more excuses for this club, if we want to play like an AFL team then performances like that are unacceptable. Does anyone think that he would get away with that crap at any other club? This type of attitude of making excuses if exactly why we've been the worst club for more than half a decade.

[What 18,810]

Now the dust has settled, its pretty amazing we lost by only 8 points when we had maybe 4-5 good players and the rest all played below par and half a dozen had absolute shockers

The team fought to the bitter end and thats what we have been asking for the last few years

Yes it sucks to lose, but the wins are coming and we will shock some teams this season

[beelzebub 23,384]

What is being shown by review of this season to date is we are still half a list short of ( real AFL level fighters) in order to be able to take on all comers. And that 2 more draft/trade sessions to go then.

We ought o be sponsored by NQR i feel as we have more than our share. Now I concede a certain flippancy in this but the niggling truth is we do actually have about a dozen real players ( not all on park yet ) and we have another dozen worthy and able assistant style players but we are constantly scuttled by the "imposters" and we all know who they are. Theyre like a Hollywood set...Look like the real deal until you look beyond the image. Theres just no substance

The FD will fix this and many will be up in arms as their fav players gets shipped off or put on the block.

You cant play decent footy with passengers