A chance to recognise a different type of courage...

[ManDee 7,239]

Let me preface this by the fact that most of us have no empathy with bonefide mental illness.

I don't know enough from the outside to praise him or otherwise.

In this era of psychobabble, and over-positivity and everyone's-a-winner-under-10, do we have to redefine what "mental toughness" is?

We hear it lauded on guys like Steve Waugh, Joel Selwood etc...

Is 'mental toughness' now a slight on the mentally ill?

As I said before, my view is that Clark will play for Fremantle in latter 2015.

What is the basis of your declaration of fact?

You appear to make grandiose statements with little or no knowledge.

I think the start of your second sentience says it all.

How would Clark get to Fremantle? Would he declare for the draft? Would no other side entertain picking him?

I think we have another troll TGR. (acronym - troll gets response)

[olisik 4,060]

What is the basis of your declaration of fact?

You appear to make grandiose statements with little or no knowledge.

I think the start of your second sentience says it all.

How would Clark get to Fremantle? Would he declare for the draft? Would no other side entertain picking him?

I think we have another troll TGR. (acronym - troll gets response)

He actually could request a trade at the end of the season. He is still on our list and to look after Clark we could accept unders for him. Especially since we got Mitchie for unders off Freo.

[Whispering_Jack 30,948]

What is the basis of your declaration of fact?

You appear to make grandiose statements with little or no knowledge.

I think the start of your second sentience says it all.

How would Clark get to Fremantle? Would he declare for the draft? Would no other side entertain picking him?

I think we have another troll TGR. (acronym - troll gets response)

Last sentence states he's expressing an opinion - not a fact.

It's a view that he's entitled to hold even if it's tinged with a touch of cynicism about Mitch's situation.

I think it would be great if Mitch can improve to the stage where he can consider playing again. He's a listed MFC player until October so if it happens within that time frame, I can't see Ross Lyon wanting to be seen as pulling a swifty over his mate Paul Roos on an issue such as this.

My view is that it won't happen anyway.

[ManDee 7,239]

Mitch Clark ✔ @MitchClark11

My heart will always beat true. Thank you for all your support. http://instagram.com/p/mkcbjDpm7V/

Retweeted by Melbourne FC

You know, I don't think he would risk starting at a new club with his issues. He is still in Melbourne. He gas not gone back to WA.

When he gets his head back together, if he wanted to play I would guess that he would stick with the Dees. This is pure conjecture but I think more likely and less risky for Mitch.

[bing181 9,348]

When he gets his head back together ...

That's "if" rather than "when".

Just in general, not in response to this post, think some here are underestimating the severity of Mitch's condition, or this condition in general. It's a long road, sometimes a road without end.

[ManDee 7,239]

Let me preface this by the fact that most of us have no empathy with bonefide mental illness.

I don't know enough from the outside to praise him or otherwise.

In this era of psychobabble, and over-positivity and everyone's-a-winner-under-10, do we have to redefine what "mental toughness" is?

We hear it lauded on guys like Steve Waugh, Joel Selwood etc...

Is 'mental toughness' now a slight on the mentally ill?

As I said before, my view is that Clark will play for Fremantle in latter 2015.

Last sentence states he's expressing an opinion - not a fact.

It's a view that he's entitled to hold even if it's tinged with a touch of cynicism about Mitch's situation.

I think it would be great if Mitch can improve to the stage where he can consider playing again. He's a listed MFC player until October so if it happens within that time frame, I can't see Ross Lyon wanting to be seen as pulling a swifty over his mate Paul Roos on an issue such as this.

My view is that it won't happen anyway.

Read the first sentence. "Let me preface this by the fact that most of us have no empathy with bonefide mental illness." This is stated as fact not opinion.

His view or opinion is "As I said before, my view is that Clark will play for Fremantle in latter 2015.

[ManDee 7,239]

That's "if" rather than "when".

Just in general, not in response to this post, think some here are underestimating the severity of Mitch's condition, or this condition in general. It's a long road, sometimes a road without end.

When I first wrote that I typed if. When I re read it I thought it too negative. I accept your point on severity of illness and did not mean to downplay it.

[daisycutter 29,797]

Read the first sentence. "Let me preface this by the fact that most of us have no empathy with bonefide mental illness." This is stated as fact not opinion.

His view or opinion is "As I said before, my view is that Clark will play for Fremantle in latter 2015.

i wonder if the word "empathy" was a mistaken, bad-choice and he meant something else like "understanding" or "knowledge" or "expertise"?

[ManDee 7,239]

i wonder if the word "empathy" was a mistaken, bad-choice and he meant something else like "understanding" or "knowledge" or "expertise"?

Fair point.

You are very generous, I slip straight into moral outrage. That puts a different light on the post.

Edit: I tend to take the written word literally. Perhaps I should consider intent in future. How does one presume intent?.

Edited April 10, 2014 by ManDee

[daisycutter 29,797]

Fair point.

You are very generous, I slip straight into moral outrage. That puts a different light on the post.

i guess though only he can answer if it was a bad choice of word

[ManDee 7,239]

TGR is online now.

Was that a poor choice of words?

[TGR 1,367]

i wonder if the word "empathy" was a mistaken, bad-choice and he meant something else like "understanding" or "knowledge" or "expertise"?

What is the difference between sympathy and empathy?

Edited April 10, 2014 by TGR

[daisycutter 29,797]

What is the difference between sympathy and empathy?

sorry tgr, it's your hole to explain

[ManDee 7,239]

Empathy and Sympathy

Writers often confuse empathy and sympathy. These two words are similar in meaning, but they are not the same. If you use the wrong one, you will either change the meaning of your sentence or be spotted as someone who doesn't know the difference.

Empathy

The noun empathy denotes the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. This ability usually derives from having shared the same, or a similar, experience. For example, you can have empathy for a poor person if you are, or were, poor. More examples:

• I have empathy for your problem. I've been there.
• Empathy is at the heart of the actor's art. (Meryl Streep)
• The great gift of human beings is that we have the power of empathy. (also Meryl Streep)
• Friendship is a living thing that lasts only as long as it is nourished with kindness, empathy and understanding. (anon)

The corresponding verb is to empathize:

• I can empathize with you. I've been there.
• He will empathize with you. He managed the same department for ten years.

Sympathy

The noun sympathy denotes feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune. For example:

• You have my utmost sympathy. You trained like a demon for that race.
• I would like to extend my sympathy to your son. I'm very sorry to hear of the death of his goldfish.

The corresponding verb is to sympathize:

• The vicar will sympathize with you. She knows how hard you trained.
• (There is no suggestion the vicar has trained hard herself (that would be empathize not sympathize). As a result, the preposition with does not feel right with to sympathize because sympathizing usually means you haven't experienced the bad event yourself. With seems a better fit for empathize. However, it is used with both verbs.)

Sympathy is not always about feelings of pity and sorrow. It can also mean to understand or to agree with. It carries a connotation of not full support. For example:

• It's hard not to have sympathy with their claims.
• It's clear from her inaction that she sympathizes with their cause.

Read more at http://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/empathy_sympathy.htm#6ri7uhq2AdHtfBJ5.99

[Grapeviney 9,881]

For example:

You have my utmost sympathy. You trained like a demon for that race.

This is known as the Melbourne example: "I have pity for you. Your training was elite but you still came last."

[ManDee 7,239]

This is known as the Melbourne example: "I have pity for you. Your training was elite but you still came last."

I empathise with a fellow Melbourne supporter for I have traveled the same road.

[ManDee 7,239]

Hey TGR let's move on, you probably picked the wrong word and I am a pedantic protuberance.

Edited April 10, 2014 by ManDee

[Alcho Dee 269]

i wonder if the word "empathy" was a mistaken, bad-choice and he meant something else like "understanding" or "knowledge" or "expertise"?

Gee wizz daisycutter sometimes it's best to keep you mouth shut....(you know the rest :-) )

[Demon trucker 1,800]

That's what leaders do, the ox went through more set backs then mitch, now that's what a leader, i wonder what the anzacs would think, if 1 of the boys in the trenches said,"hey man this is too hard, i'm going home. now what do we see on the weekend, exhibit a boomer harvey harvey. in the last quarter game to be won kicks a couple of goals. exhibit b, nathan jones, 7 down last quarter no possessions. who is the champion you tell me.

Edited April 10, 2014 by angrydemons

[daisycutter 29,797]

Gee wizz daisycutter sometimes it's best to keep you mouth shut....(you know the rest :-) )

it's your not you

but no cigar for you

[ManDee 7,239]

That's what leaders do, the ox went through more set backs then mitch, now that's what a leader, i wonder what the anzacs would think, if 1 of the boys in the trenches said,"hey man this is too hard, i'm going home. now what do we see on the weekend, exhibit a boomer harvey harvey. in the last quarter game to be won kicks a couple of goals. exhibit b, nathan jones, 7 down last quarter no possessions. who is the champion you tell me.

the troll is back

[ManDee 7,239]

it's your not you

but no cigar for you

Your know the rest:)?

[Demon trucker 1,800]

the troll is back

do you know what a debate is? obviously you do not have any deba?ting skills, now you tell me what a champion is point out any actual facts i got wrong about who is the champion, that's what simple people do. when they don't agree with somebody, Or don't have any clue in how to counteract another person's argument, the troll that's: easier to say the troll.

Edited April 10, 2014 by angrydemons

[Alcho Dee 269]

it's your not you

but no cigar for you

glad you picked up the spelling mistake, now go [censored] yourself again.

[autocol 448]

i wonder what the anzacs would think

Oh great. You're ripping out all the big guns now. Some of the anzacs sat in the trenches and cried like children. Some of them ran headfirst into their certain death. Some of them killed as many enemies as they could. Some of them never fired their weapon.

You don't get to decide what the anzacs thought, because each of them was an individual that had their own motivations and aspirations, and you trotting them out here is nearly as shameful as politicians purporting to represent their wishes in support of one (usually racist) policy or another.

Now that you've brought them up, however, it might be worth mentioning that thousands of the poor buggers succumbed to mental illness thanks to their experiences in the war and lived the rest of their lives as hollow, empty shells, not a shadow of their former selves. I wonder indeed, what they would think of you belittling others - like Mitch - battling mental demons.

Edited April 10, 2014 by autocol