Four Failed Drafts

[daisycutter 29,613]

yes you are right rjay. I re read the post on tuesday night. Let's just call it a "Grey Area"!!

i wonder how many more losses before someone starts a bring back schwabby thread?

[old dee 23,787]

i wonder how many more losses before someone starts a bring back schwabby thread?

98

[old dee 23,787]

Was talking to an old friend / demon member today.

He seldom makes predictions but has been remarkable accurate when he does.

He said there is a strong Rumour that Trengove wants to return to SA in 2015.

Appears he is tiring of the constant losses.

If remotely true we should be active in arranging a trade at years end.

If we wait we will end up losing him for nothing through Free agency.

I think this is the way poor clubs like the MFC have to use free agency.

Trade off the reasonable players before they reach free agency.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,237]

Was talking to an old friend / demon member today.

He seldom makes predictions but has been remarkable accurate when he does.

He said there is a strong Rumour that Trengove wants to return to SA in 2015.

Appears he is tiring of the constant losses.

If remotely true we should be active in arranging a trade at years end.

If we wait we will end up losing him for nothing through Free agency.

I think this is the way poor clubs like the MFC have to use free agency.

Trade off the reasonable players before they reach free agency.

This is really a worry. As you say we don't know if it is true ..BUT .... maybe Frawley is tired of losing .... maybe TMac is tired of losing ................... maybe ??????????? is tired of losing.

The world has changed. In the "old days" the opportunities to switch clubs were not there BUT , in any case, could you imagine blokes like Kevin Murray, Bobby Skilton, Ted Whitten changing clubs. They were champs.

So not only has the world changed but so have values like loyalty, team allegiance and sticking tough. It really is only the poor silly supporters that do these things.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Was speaking to Kevin Sheedy a month ago or so. He said the most important guy in the club these days is the recruitment bloke.

Said Carlton have been ridiculous poor in this respect, and us not really any better. To be contrasted with the Swans and Hawthorn, whom he said were simply superb in this respect.

Also said we will deeply regret not selecting Josh Kelly. They've since signed him up for two more years.

It's all good news following this club.

[timD 994]

Was speaking to Kevin Sheedy a month ago or so. He said the most important guy in the club these days is the recruitment bloke.

Said Carlton have been ridiculous poor in this respect, and us not really any better. To be contrasted with the Swans and Hawthorn, whom he said were simply superb in this respect.

Also said we will deeply regret not selecting Josh Kelly. They've since signed him up for two more years.

It's all good news following this club.

Don't stress too much about Kevin. I've found out a few little gems about his "application" to be Melbourne coach that confirmed a long-held suspicion that he implies a lot and knows a damn sight less. Hawthorn's recruiting is not that great. They've got in players at the right time and picked the eyes out of the draft, but also had shocking drafts along the recent past.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

Was talking to an old friend / demon member today.

He seldom makes predictions but has been remarkable accurate when he does.

He said there is a strong Rumour that Trengove wants to return to SA in 2015.

Appears he is tiring of the constant losses.

If remotely true we should be active in arranging a trade at years end.

If we wait we will end up losing him for nothing through Free agency.

I think this is the way poor clubs like the MFC have to use free agency.

Trade off the reasonable players before they reach free agency.

Goes both ways i reckon.

Supporters are getting tired of the below standard football dished up.

Edited April 11, 2014 by why you little

[rjay 24,917]

Don't stress too much about Kevin. I've found out a few little gems about his "application" to be Melbourne coach that confirmed a long-held suspicion that he implies a lot and knows a damn sight less. Hawthorn's recruiting is not that great. They've got in players at the right time and picked the eyes out of the draft, but also had shocking drafts along the recent past.

...and to back you up a bit about Kevin, it was a bit embarrassing when he didn't know one of his skippers and was about to sign an autograph for him thinking he was a fan.

[Frosty Demon 153]

Let him go and get what we can.

[Ted Lasso 19,507]

Was speaking to Kevin Sheedy a month ago or so. He said the most important guy in the club these days is the recruitment bloke.

Said Carlton have been ridiculous poor in this respect, and us not really any better. To be contrasted with the Swans and Hawthorn, whom he said were simply superb in this respect.

Also said we will deeply regret not selecting Josh Kelly. They've since signed him up for two more years.

It's all good news following this club.

i have nothing but respect for Kevin but still feel it's hard to predict what young players are going to do, i have heard alot of different people rate Salem as neck in neck with Kelly as the best mid in the draft, and we got Dom Tyson as well so i don't think either side is going to be too worried about that deal.

He's spot on about Carlton, they have had 2 cracks at the draft under Malthouse and not recruited one key position player despite that being the huge hole in their side.

[jnrmac 20,058]

Was speaking to Kevin Sheedy a month ago or so. He said the most important guy in the club these days is the recruitment bloke.

Said Carlton have been ridiculous poor in this respect, and us not really any better. To be contrasted with the Swans and Hawthorn, whom he said were simply superb in this respect.

Also said we will deeply regret not selecting Josh Kelly. They've since signed him up for two more years.

It's all good news following this club.

This is from the guy that tried to get rid of Jobe Watson??

[jackaub 1,402]

Let him go and get what we can.

i agree Frost Trengove has very little impact on the game I presume he will be going back to the SANFl coz he sure isn't AFL standard at the moment and may never be

[Ted Lasso 19,507]

Goes both ways i reckon.

Supporters are getting tired of the below standard football dishrd up.

I reckon Trengove moving on is the best thing for all parties, i can't see us getting much more out of him

[manny100 1,552]

We will not know the worth of the Tyson trade until we see how Salem stacks up. In the meantime at least we know Tyson will be a very good footballer for the Dees.

If Trenners wants out (I hope its not true) we will likely be screwed on any trade. We have to hope he comes in and stars to boost his value.

[old dee 23,787]

We will not know the worth of the Tyson trade until we see how Salem stacks up. In the meantime at least we know Tyson will be a very good footballer for the Dees.

If Trenners wants out (I hope its not true) we will likely be screwed on any trade. We have to hope he comes in and stars to boost his value.

If he stars we keep him!

[Adam The God 30,221]

This is very much on the money, living in WA and getting regular looks at the local AFL lists over the years through the AFL and at WAFL level you think their disposal is shocking. Over time theyare forced to buy in and work hard or they are out. The penny drops (for some it's straight away) and realise the workrate and effort required at the highest level. Over time they develop get used to playing at the level and the skills improve.

Deboer - could not hit a barn door, but always worked his arse off and has developed his skills

Mayne - as above

Walters - was overweight and lacked the zip and awareness and was unable to apply the pressure he does now and his great skills suffered because he fatigued easily

Crowley - was gone 3 years ago but reinvented himself lost weight and can now run with the best players in the league

Meth Coast from 2008-2010 had young players who had terrible disposal and were in and out of the team such as

S.Selwood - was very bad early days at turning the ball over but always had the family traits with effort and was played as a tagger but over time his disposal improved and now he is a threat to opposition players

Brad Ebert - like most of their side really struggled with disposal until 2011 but became a very very good player for them before heading home

Eric Mckenzie still not great by foot but a lot more composed and knows his limitations gives a lot of hope to Tom Mac

Masten who's poor disposal continued until 2012 he has always been an athlete but they gave him some roles late 2011 and 2012 when he did the job which was asked of him and became comfortable with his role and now has the belief he can play at this level

Meth Coast and Freo's lists have tremendous running power and never stop running to space, running to create space, leave an opponent and sacrifice themselves when the time is right to get to a contest, run hard to make second efforts and will put their bodies on the line for each other.

If we just did these little things every game we may not win every week but we would not get belted

This is an important point too, PSD. I'm always sitting at games going, "know your bloody limitations!". So many of our players bite off more than they can chew. Even Nathan Jones. I think his improvement over the last two years though is the realisation that he has certain limitations. DIspose of the ball as early as possible, rather than being tackled every time you gain possession. Our lack of spread from stoppages hasn't helped him there, but he's certainly a better player for being in touch with his limitations. Tommy Mac needs to realise this, as do Grimes, Terlich and Matt Jones.

[Adam The God 30,221]

i have nothing but respect for Kevin but still feel it's hard to predict what young players are going to do, i have heard alot of different people rate Salem as neck in neck with Kelly as the best mid in the draft, and we got Dom Tyson as well so i don't think either side is going to be too worried about that deal.

He's spot on about Carlton, they have had 2 cracks at the draft under Malthouse and not recruited one key position player despite that being the huge hole in their side.

Blind 'Freddy' could see that Carlton's recruiting has been rubbish for a long time now. Sheedy should have retired post Essendon. He was finished. Just as Malthouse should have given up the game post Collingwood.

[nutbean 8,838]

With the reports at the time suggesting that almost all our picks (again, with the abominations the exception) were easily justifiable at the time, the focus comes down to whether or not they were given the best chance of fulfilling their potential at Melbourne. I think it's patently obvious they were not.

Bad development was not at the fringes - it was, and remains, at the core of this club's malaise.

one zillion likes

[praha 11,240]

Poor development does not mean 'every player is doomed to fail when they come to Melbourne'.

Jones clearly has improved whilst he's been here, as have plenty of others (e.g. Garland, Jamar, McDonald, Dunn).

But the point perhaps is reinforced looking at it like this - even if we took players higher than they should have, they were all still rated to go about where we picked them (save for the abominations, like Cook and Gysberts). For example, even if Blease at 17 was a touch too high at the time, it would be fair to put him around, say 25. For a pick 25, Blease hasn't been good enough. The players we have taken haven't met their subjective draft position value, but they also haven't met their objective value (where there is a difference).

With the reports at the time suggesting that almost all our picks (again, with the abominations the exception) were easily justifiable at the time, the focus comes down to whether or not they were given the best chance of fulfilling their potential at Melbourne. I think it's patently obvious they were not.

Bad development was not at the fringes - it was, and remains, at the core of this club's malaise.

I wouldn't say Jones has improved. More like those around him have gotten worse and naturally he gets more of the ball. If you look at his statistics you'll see that if anything he's remained consistently good, but has not made the jump into A-grade territory, and for all the praise he gets from Dees fans, is not ranked top 50 (he is like 80 something).

Harsh reality is that this club can pick talent, but ultimately doesn't know how to transition that talent into star potential. Watts, Frawley, Jones, look, they're all great, but really should be BETTER than they are.

Jones for example shouldn't be going a fourth quarter without a touch against a midfield of mainly 30-40 gamers at GWS. That is very telling.

I love Jonesy to death but like I've said in another thread, he is simply going through the motions. There is not a single player on the team that takes the game by the balls. Not a single one. And there hasn't been since Jurrah left.

I'm sick of "Yeah but they try hard and work their butts off". If that were true there would be results. There isn't.

Winning games isn't rocket science. But trust Melbourne to be the team to turn winning a game of football into something similarly as incomprehensible as the Higgs Boson.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Cudi_420

[rpfc 28,384]

Poor development does not mean 'every player is doomed to fail when they come to Melbourne'.

Jones clearly has improved whilst he's been here, as have plenty of others (e.g. Garland, Jamar, McDonald, Dunn).

But the point perhaps is reinforced looking at it like this - even if we took players higher than they should have, they were all still rated to go about where we picked them (save for the abominations, like Cook and Gysberts). For example, even if Blease at 17 was a touch too high at the time, it would be fair to put him around, say 25. For a pick 25, Blease hasn't been good enough. The players we have taken haven't met their subjective draft position value, but they also haven't met their objective value (where there is a difference).

With the reports at the time suggesting that almost all our picks (again, with the abominations the exception) were easily justifiable at the time, the focus comes down to whether or not they were given the best chance of fulfilling their potential at Melbourne. I think it's patently obvious they were not.

Bad development was not at the fringes - it was, and remains, at the core of this club's malaise.

No excuses now on that score.

If we have players that have been the victim of poor development then they will shine through now.

I don't think that will be many players - I don't see a great deal of talent amongst a lot of our list and Roos is not going to be able to get blood from a stone.

Loved to be proved wrong.

[rpfc 28,384]

It's unprovable isn't it? Development or Recruiting?

I am still yet to see a kid hampered by our development flourish in another environment.

Maybe Bennell will be that proof...

2001 to 2004 saw us draft Molan, Smith, Bell, Sylvia, McLean, Bate and Dunn with top 15 picks. A couple wasted picks, a couple of teasers, a couple of solid players and one tardy professional.

2005 saw us draft a battling mid with an early pick with a low ceiling but a readiness to play right away - enter the unfashionable Nathan Jones.

2006 had Frawley and Garland chosen. Both players struggled early but have become highly sought after professionals.

2007 had Morton and Maric chosen early and both were not good enough to cut it at other clubs when they were moved on.

2009 had Gysberts chosen early and moved on with, again, the determination made that he wasn't good enough at a second club.

2010 Cook was chosen early - spurned after two years and no other club saw fit to rookie him.

2011 saw us trade away our early pick but there are zero players from any draft (Nat, PS, Rookie) that year that is still on our list.

I will leave it there but I look at the facts and largely see poor drafting and talent evaluation, and wasted talent and poor development at the fringes.

[olisik 4,060]

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/if-youre-a-melbourne-supporter-look-away-now-demons-draft-bungles-aplenty/story-fni5f91a-1226881324821?from=herald+sun_rss

[McQueen 17,864]

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/if-youre-a-melbourne-supporter-look-away-now-demons-draft-bungles-aplenty/story-fni5f91a-1226881324821?from=herald+sun_rss

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/if-youre-a-melbourne-supporter-look-away-now-demons-draft-bungles-aplenty/story-fndv8pdq-1226881324821

[dbj1983 138]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/if-youre-a-melbourne-supporter-look-away-now-demons-draft-bungles-aplenty/story-fndv8pdq-1226881324821

This article frustrates me so much. I just can't understand how anyone can say that we have missed out by getting Tyson (let alone Salem) for pick 2. IMO Tyson alone is worth pick 2. He is a bigger bodied, silky and smart/ready to go footballer. Yes I agree Kelly maybe be a gun but I wouldn't swap if given the choice again. The real bonus will be if Salem becomes a player then we really stick it up the media. Anyways, venting now finished.

[McQueen 17,864]

This article frustrates me so much. I just can't understand how anyone can say that we have missed out by getting Tyson (let alone Salem) for pick 2. IMO Tyson alone is worth pick 2. He is a bigger bodied, silky and smart/ready to go footballer. Yes I agree Kelly maybe be a gun but I wouldn't swap if given the choice again. The real bonus will be if Salem becomes a player then we really stick it up the media. Anyways, venting now finished.

Obviously very premature article.

We needed a quantity of very good midfielders as opposed to one star. The author of this article seems to not understand that need.