The continuing saga of Melbourne's injury list - 2014

[binman 38,019]

More pathetic presumption from posters on here. 'Chronic' means non acute. Thus, the injury occurs not from an incident but arises insidiously. It doesn't mean he's been labouring uncared for with a crippling pain. A 20 year old is susceptible to all sorts of injuries, of which stress reactions in the back are one. He's a huge unit on a still developing skeleton. Any amount of the normal load in training that all the others are doing by the way could present as an issue, based on an inherent vulnerability. This can happen because ' everybody's different'. Shocking I know. Still, those of you who want to push the mismanagement argument, keep going, cos ignorance is bliss I guess.

Fair whack Webber re suggestions they may have mismanaged Hogan. I should not have included that in my post as it is really a furphy and it distracts from my point, which is about the importance good, reliable information about injuries that can be trusted. I don't mean super specific injury reports - just reasonably transparent ones. Failure to provide this opens them up for ill informed conjecture.

Again take the Hogan case. You say a chronic back injury occurs not from an incident but arises insidiously. That's exactly my point. It was the club that said specifically said it arose from an injury sustained in the Cats NAB game - the club. This framed the expectations of how long it would take Hogan to recover. An injury that arises insidiously is surely a different kettle of fish in terms of potential treatment and time out than a specific injury caused in a match.

It appears not to be true that the injury occurred from an incident. Call it spin from the club, misinformation or just plain lying. My point is it is counterproductive and not an effective or honest way to communicate to your members and fans.

if the club had come out and said something like what you are saying in your post (ie we have a young fella growing into his body, we're not sure when he will back, could be quite a while as each person responds differently, we won't put a time frame on it just yet etc) then fans could properly calibrate their expectations. It would also make it easier to accept and deal with a headline that says Hogan set to be sidelined until May.

Instead misinformation, as it always does, feeds confusion, conspiracy theories and suspicion of motive.

Edited April 1, 2014 by binman

[DemonFrog 1,347]

Personally, I would rather the club, whenever someone gets injured just say they are out for the season. That way, we don't expect to see them again and when they do return in only 16 weeks after their broken nail we will think the club is doing a good job in managing the injuries!

[Maggot 1977 263]

well after the latest injury report I am a little bit chirpier today. Reading between the lines and after the initial horror of Hogan out for at least 6 more weeks.

Mitch Clark (personal leave) – indefinite - In my opinion wont play again

Chris Dawes (calf) – 2 weeks - Think he will come straight in to the seniors

Colin Garland (ankle) – available

Max Gawn (hamstring) – test

Jesse Hogan (back) – 4-6 weeks

Mark Jamar (calf) – available

Jordie McKenzie (foot) – available

[Maggot 1977 263]

I guess Viney is also available ?

[dee-luded 2,958]

I may have missed it but when Dawes first suffered the calf injury at the intraclub match in February (about 5 weeks ago) it was described as a "strain". Does anyone know when it became a tear?

I suspect that its a strain, but a chronic strain that won't heal properly & maybe they are looking to how they can best remedy the condition, or what ever it is that leads to the strain.

[H_T 2,941]

?

[dee-luded 2,958]

As a physiotherapist, a lot of the assumptions and assumed knowledge on here are frankly garbage. The reality is that soft tissue injuries do not present as a perfect formula. At best we give a framework management and likely return date at the point of diagnosis. This crystallises as the injury heals. Then we start to push toward 'game standard' training, having done everything as needed. Most of the time the plan stays on track, but sometimes that push to the next level results in symptoms. So we reassess and re calibrate the management. And so it goes again.

It ISN'T a perfect system, and no matter how many forwards we have injured at once, and how many games we lose and by how much, it never will be.

I know a lot of you want someone to blame, someone to be accountable for the rubbish like Saturday. The extension being that if we sack them and get the 'proper' person in, they'll solve it.

The fitness and medical staff ARE NOT TO BLAME, so you're not going to ease your frustration and anger by wishing it were so.

I'd like to find out if the 'Strained Calf', is on the same leg as the knee injury?

[Webber 10,040]

I'd like to find out if the 'Strained Calf', is on the same leg as the knee injury?

Whether it is or not is irrelevant. It makes it no more or less oredictable

[Slartibartfast 15,761]

I think you and I are on the same page Binman but I'd go as far as saying information about the injury is unnecessary, just a consistent and realistic projection of when the player will return.

I don't in any way blame the medico's for what's happened. I just thought it strange that Gawn, Dawes, Garland, Hogan, Clark (although his case is clearly different), Jamar and Viney were all expected back much sooner than eventuated.

[Arrow 1,257]

Nothing more than my opinion, but can't see any chance of Dawes returning in 2 weeks. I'd be happy if we saw him in a month.

[Webber 10,040]

7 years on the bottom and majority of our talls are injured without even playing a game this year....I would disagree with you re mismanagement.

Rubbish. Stuff just happens sometimes. Patterns of injuries in clubs, or even lack of injuries at this elite, professional level tell us nothing other than coincidence is a [censored], or a blessing, and high expectations make some people reach for blame and conspiracy. However you will keep rolling out that Misson is incompetent and the medical staff don't know what they're doing. Both claims based on the fact that we have injuries to important players.

[Pates 9,536]

The news about Dawes from Misso is encouraging but surprising. I would say he'll have to get through a full VFL game before we bring him in, or at the very least a half.

Hopefully the talls pain could be easing over the next few weeks with Jamar and Garlo playing VFL this week and Dawes the following week.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Pates

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,152]

We actually don't have a massive injury list when you consider Garland and Jamar will play vfl this week while Viney and Gawn are allegedly available.

Potentially against Carlton we could have everyone except Clark, Dawes and Hogan.

[rpfc 27,451]

We actually don't have a massive injury list when you consider Garland and Jamar will play vfl this week while Viney and Gawn are allegedly available.

Potentially against Carlton we could have everyone except Clark, Dawes and Hogan.

Hexed!

I will believe it when they are running around in the AFL dropping chest marks...

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,397]

Whether it's injury reports, on-field performance or the club's finances, I'd like the club to reverse its current strategy and under-promise and over-deliver. We have consistently done it the other way round for as long as I can remember.

[nutbean 8,837]

7 years on the bottom and majority of our talls are injured without even playing a game this year....I would disagree with you re mismanagement.

Soooo..7 years on the bottom is the reason are talls are injured without even playing a game.

Exactly which part of Webbers explanation do you disagree with ? Please also post any qualifications you may have in the medical field and insight into the actual medical condition of the injuries players that will lend weight to your assertion of mismanagement.

BB's point is not about the injuries per se but the communication and estimates given. I do understand that there have been some puzzling pieces of information regarding Hogans injury and others - but as far as I am concerned the injuries are what the injuries are.

Misson has the reputation of being one of the best in his field - so to claim he has mismanaged is a pretty big ( and completely unsubstantiated) assertion.

I also repeat John Longmire's approach when asked about Kurt Tippetts tendonitis - " I am reluctant to give a timeframe" - not sure which is worse - being given timeframes thats are fluid or not being given any information at all.

Edited April 2, 2014 by nutbean

[old dee 22,852]

Hexed!

I will believe it when they are running around in the AFL dropping chest marks...

Best comment for the day rpfc.

Love it

[Pennant St Dee 11,257]

Soooo..7 years on the bottom is the reason are talls are injured without even playing a game.

Exactly which part of Webbers explanation do you disagree with ? Please also post any qualifications you may have in the medical field and insight into the actual medical condition of the injuries players that will lend weight to your assertion of mismanagement.

BB's point is not about the injuries per se but the communication and estimates given. I do understand that there have been some puzzling pieces of information regarding Hogans injury and others - but as far as I am concerned the injuries are what the injuries are.

Misson has the reputation of being one of the best in his field - so to claim he has mismanaged is a pretty big ( and completely unsubstantiated) assertion.

I also repeat John Longmire's approach when asked about Kurt Tippetts tendonitis - " I am reluctant to give a timeframe" - not sure which is worse - been given timeframes thats are fluid or not being given any information at all.

Does seeking medical intervention on regular occassions count for a medical qualification, if so he is qualified

[nutbean 8,837]

There are two separate arguments going on here.

The only one I want to address is the one on the competence of the sports medico's. Firstly on preseason loading - players are on individually tailored programs and most have got through unscathed - players like Tyson who was injured coming to us has a program which has seen him fit for round one. Aiden Riley who had a severely broken leg is spot on track to play when advised - so are the medico's selectively incompetent ?. As to when a player gets injured - we have zero insight into the nature of the players injuries and the treatment and rehab plans given to the players - how on earth is anyone in a position to make a call on their competency ??? All we know anecdotally is that players recover at differing rates - some injuries heal quickly and others just linger forever ( Junior McDonalds 3 week hamstring that lasted 8 weeks). That's the reality.

I get the frustration - what I don't get is lack of logic applied to what has transpired.

[Slartibartfast 15,761]

We actually don't have a massive injury list

The disruption to the preseason of so many critical players has already cruelled our season. They may play but they will not influence in the way you'd want.

Having said that, it will be nice to have them back if it happens. I'm in the camp that will believe it when I see it.

[Machsy 2,856]

7 years on the bottom and majority of our talls are injured without even playing a game this year....I would disagree with you re mismanagement.

Relevance?

What's going on ?

We need to take a leaf out of John Longmire's book - re Kurt Tippett and his knee tendonitis and when he will return.

"I am reluctant to put a time frame on it".

Much better - tell the members absolutely nothing.

I love this approach.

But it would only mean the whingers in this thread would need to find something else to complain about...

[kieranbj 108]

Whilst injuries are hurting us in that they have crippled a particular sub set of player there could be as many as 20 Demons (including Westrup) playing for Casey on Sunday. 19 if an emergency flies to Sydney

[binman 38,019]

I also repeat John Longmire's approach when asked about Kurt Tippetts tendonitis - " I am reluctant to give a timeframe" - not sure which is worse - being given timeframes thats are fluid or not being given any information at all.

I agree with your post but to split hairs ''I'm reluctant to give a time frame" is being given information. It accurately reflects Tippets injury situation. I would rather they have said that about Dawes and Hogan from the get go (as they have funnily enough with Clarke)

[Mgdee 319]

What excuse for losing by 100 points will we be able to use once most of our tall players are back

[Pates 9,536]

What excuse for losing by 100 points will we be able to use once most of our tall players are back

I don't think there's ever an excuse for losing by 100+ points, it's a total destruction of a team and it's rarely just down to the other team being that good, the losing team also has to be that bad. But we are totally directionless when going forward so you'd hope that once he get some sort of forward line that we'll be able to take better advantage of our holding of the ball. Suddenly a movement that ends with us turning it over and it going up the other end results in a shot on goal.