I have finally accepted it. For the whole of his career, I have massively overrated Sylvia.

Vince is now my favourite player anyway.

I have finally accepted it. For the whole of his career, I have massively overrated Sylvia.

Vince is now my favourite player anyway.

Ironically I find Vince nearly as frustrating, he is genuinely a good B grade player but his best is certainly A grade, he just doesn't produce it all the time, could prove a huge steal if Roos can help him play that way consistantly

I work in the fitness industy and have worked with blokes who played AFL in the past and I have heard that when Mission took over we went on a three year intensity increase plan to get us up to AFL standard, that's how far off the pace we were.

Pretty sure Dave Mission mentioned that himself on dee tv..

Pretty sure Dave Mission mentioned that himself on dee tv..

Yep, that's where I heard it.

I have finally accepted it. For the whole of his career, I have massively overrated Sylvia.

Vince is now my favourite player anyway.

If people are frustrated by Vince's disposal efficiency (DE) they shouldn't be. The numbers don't tell the full story.

Rather than handpass the ball to a stationary target or give the ball off to a player who is probably going to be under pressure, Vince often likes to instead gain metres for the team by getting the ball moving our way (by foot) Only problem with that is that our players often play from behind so Vince's kicks can sometimes result in a turnover.

If our forwards and those forward of the ball can play in front a lot more, watch his DE soar. As it stands, I believe he's right up there in metres gained anyway. I like his no-nonsense approach.

He's a very good player - smart, has footy nous, reads the play well and uses the ball better than many of our other players. He's a B or B+ player and we should be thankful that we've got him for a few years.

An excellent swap for Sylvia as its turned out (a virtual swap)

I work in the fitness industy and have worked with blokes who played AFL in the past and I have heard that when Mission took over we went on a three year intensity increase plan to get us up to AFL standard, that's how far off the pace we were.

Yeah, Misson came out and said that in the press, I'm pretty sure. He and Neeld kept saying on the MFC website that it would take them three pre seasons to get the list up to AFL conditioning.

I know it ...I know it...

I don't mind good intellectual discussion and even if I disagree with opinions that are well reasoned - I can see their point of view - disagree and leave them alone. I just go a bit troppo when I see stuff written that a single player like Frawley will "stifle the development of younger players" and " our list can improve 10 fold without him ". I have no problem with any poster not valuing him as a footballer and thinking he is easily replaceable - But stifling youth development and our list would improve 10 fold without him is just blatant nonsense. We basically improved our list one fold with Sylvia going and Vince coming - one puts in the hard yards week in and out and the other didn't.

Further onn Sylvia - I have been thinking about culture killers and I guess for me the ones that I see as problematic are footballers with discipline problems - coming back overweight for PS training or those that skip sessions, drink/(drug ?) problems, late night night clubbing, fighting and that's both on and off the field. Collingwood cleaned out a lot of players that Buckley considered problematic - the ratpack - not for their onfield performances - but their off field behaviours and apparently perceived influence on others.

Sylvia's performances for me were made more disappointing because apart from the fact that he would only shine in one out of 8 games, his attitude outside the club made it worse. He had some noted indiscretions and other rumoured indiscretions. In his years with us he never had a full preseason. This in itself cannot be blamed on him but it adds to the total package.

( I tend to be forgiving of players like Nicholson - I unfortunately don't think he has disposal skills to be a regular AFL footballer but he gives his all both on and off the field. I love the Daniel Crosses of the world because he has average talent and has gotten 100% out of himself to be a more than useful footballer. In between you have McKenzie who is limited and works very hard but hasnt reached the heights of a Cross. I would love to have a hybrid Sylvia/McKenzie.)

Who did Buckley clear out? Didak retired because he was getting old and constantly injured and not up to it any more. Who else was a rat packer?

CS wasted talent and given far too many chances. B - as a AFL career.

Number 3 pick totally wasted.

CS wasted talent and given far too many chances. B - as a AFL career.

Number 3 pick totally wasted.

B-? Bit generous...

Z. I saw his first game. Pathetic. Not as talented as he was toted.

Will jimmy Toumpas and Mitch clisby ever be any good? How about Fitzpatrick, Gawn, Strauss?

It was a crap draft. Our lot in life, unfortunately. In most other drafts he and McScum would have been mid to late first rounders at best. But he's gone. We aren't paying him for his cameos anymore so let Freo rue him for a bit.

Who did Buckley clear out? Didak retired because he was getting old and constantly injured and not up to it any more. Who else was a rat packer?

Tarrant and Johnson also retired. Heath Shaw was moved on.

Dropped by Freo...

For all the Sylvia apologists read this quote from Lyon:

Speaking about Sylvia, who has had a disappointing first season in the west, Lyon said: "He needs to go back (to the WAFL) and deliver actions that will build trust within the match committee that will select him and, more importantly, his teammates.

"He's played a certain way for a long time and he needs to shift, because we're not bending to Col. Col will bend to us. He knows that and he understands that."

Does he have the brain power to know or understand that, or in fact anything?

I have finally accepted it. For the whole of his career, I have massively overrated Sylvia.

Please send me an application form to join this club.

Who did Buckley clear out? Didak retired because he was getting old and constantly injured and not up to it any more. Who else was a rat packer?

Irrespective of whether he was up to it Didak did not want to be retired

Ben Johnson - retired, Tarrant - retired, Heath Shaw moved on. Only one left is Swan. There is conflicting information as to whether Daisy Thomas was part of the clique.

You will notice that I used the words - "Buckley considered problematic" and "perceived influence on others". I chose these words carefully as I have no insight into Collingwood other than what I read in the papers. I am not sure whether it is a beat up or not but all you need to do is google Collingwood ratpack - there is a plethora of articles about them.

Please send me an application form to join this club.

, you just have, accepted

She went 50m post high though....

that's not funny. At all. Jokes about family violence never are. Please delete

Joins a long line of players that had real ability but lacked drive.

We still have some on the list, they need to be developed, changed or weeded out.

Joins a long line of players that had real ability but lacked drive.

We still have some on the list, they need to be developed, changed or weeded out.

Limited ability.

Limited ability.

From my outside perception I think Sylvia had real ability but had neither the brains or will to work on his deficiencies. This is arrogance. It's an arrogance that followed him to Freo when again he thought his physique and perceived natural talent would be enough to get him a game. And on getting a game failing to adhere to standards. Clearly there is a patttern of arrogance and individualism there.

Compared him to someone like Nathan Jones who had the burning desire to improve his game and did so.

Tarrant and Johnson also retired. Heath Shaw was moved on.

johnson and tar rant were clapped out. Shaw was just plain dumb. After all they played for the collywobbles!

Limited ability.

I am probably his biggest critic but this is plain wrong.

I am probably his biggest critic but this is plain wrong.

No it's not....and it's been proven time and again.

edit: I've been through this before but in brief Col's abilities are physical, his size, his ability to kick a long ball and take the occasional good mark for his height. These are all that he has and he can't even apply these properly because...

He lacks footy smarts, awareness, peripheral vision and mental application which make him a limited footballer with limited abilities.

I am probably his biggest critic but this is plain wrong.

At best , if he does have ability, he has limited ability to display it.