This is where stats don't tell the story. I don't think they keep stats for the number of times he didn't involve himself in the play or go to help a team mate instead of meander around the back line showing little endeavour or purpose in his play unless it suited him or the ball fell his way.

A major improvement in these areas would make him useful.

Agreed!

I'm agreeing with you... but you're making a point disagreeing with the point I was making.

Confusing.

Yes, as someone who escaped the statistcal profession, the statistics do tell gross lies quite frequently, and I do think Pedersen's performance needs some work.

That wandering around apparently aimlessly... was a bit chronic under Neeld, eh. Being generous to Pedersen, he might have been given a role trying to be the Rivers replacement with cut-out contested and intercept marks.

You're quite right hedefinitely needs to all improve a chunk, particularly the placement to get involved. But I guess I should be more clear that I'm not saying 'Pedersen was a good player in 2013' so much as I'm saying 'Pedersen may be a useful player for us in 2014 and is not a dead-weight just yet'.

I'm also inclined to give Pedo the benefit of the doubt because I don't recall seeing him do it again.

Illogical at best.

He wouldn't want to do again.

Blind Freddie could see its a squib.

I know its Christmas but you have taken generosity to an extreme.

You'd be smarter recognising the bleeding obvious for what it is.

Fancy Rhino and Benny boy agreeing!

Cool!

Sage advice by both, so all must comply.

Pedersen is a giant potato. Up forward or in the ruck - completely useless.

Down back - has some ability to read the play and can take a mark. Actual defending ability is limited by physical traits - slow and short.

Increased fitness should mean a slight edge in speed gives him a chance to defend some opponents and he can get involved

Increased coaching means if he squibs again he wont get away with it. Not having Gillies and Sellar at least means they can direct some resources in to training Pedersen hard. Rawlings and Roos are 2 who don't mess around but might actually understand how to set standards and enforce them.

Illogical at best.

He wouldn't want to do again.

Blind Freddie could see its a squib.

I know its Christmas but you have taken generosity to an extreme.

You'd be smarter recognising the bleeding obvious for what it is.

So if he is automatically 'cured' by the effect of squibbing once and is not a serial squibber, what's the fuss about? It's irrelevant to the discussion of what is wrong with his general play and prospects.

I've seen players at all levels squib and I felt that Pedo's action didn't fit the usual mould for the reasons I outlined in my original post. Which led me to suggest it was possible he was trying to be clever rather than squibbing, and gave him the benefit of the doubt though I wouldn't stake my life on it.

That apparently means I know nothing about footy (though I've probably seen more matches than most here except Old Dee). I'll change my name to Blind Freddy. Sorry for taking Xmas spirit to excess.

So if he is automatically 'cured' by the effect of squibbing once and is not a serial squibber, what's the fuss about? It's irrelevant to the discussion of what is wrong with his general play and prospects.

I've seen players at all levels squib and I felt that Pedo's action didn't fit the usual mould for the reasons I outlined in my original post. Which led me to suggest it was possible he was trying to be clever rather than squibbing, and gave him the benefit of the doubt though I wouldn't stake my life on it.

That apparently means I know nothing about footy (though I've probably seen more matches than most here except Old Dee). I'll change my name to Blind Freddy. Sorry for taking Xmas spirit to excess.

Pretty sure he squibbed again in another game. If not physically he mentally dodges work as well.

Oh and change you're name to Blind Sue. If it's blind freddy the masses can't dismiss your opinion due to your gender.

So if he is automatically 'cured' by the effect of squibbing once and is not a serial squibber, what's the fuss about? It's irrelevant to the discussion of what is wrong with his general play and prospects.

I've seen players at all levels squib and I felt that Pedo's action didn't fit the usual mould for the reasons I outlined in my original post. Which led me to suggest it was possible he was trying to be clever rather than squibbing, and gave him the benefit of the doubt though I wouldn't stake my life on it.

That apparently means I know nothing about footy (though I've probably seen more matches than most here except Old Dee). I'll change my name to Blind Freddy. Sorry for taking Xmas spirit to excess.

The only one who is fussing Sue is you trying to bizarrely explain away a blatant act of selfishness by a player.

The only thing worse than squibbing is to cook an outrageously concocted explanation for it.

Just call it for what it was. FGS the player knows it. His coaches and teammates know it and the football world know it. It was embarrassing when he did it and it's excruciating to watch it in replay..

FWIW, the assessment of Pedersen at NM was that he was selfish and would not commit to team protocols to the anger of his teammates. The club were happy to see him go. So his episode in Rd 1 was neither isolated nor is there any evidence of the player being "cured" of habits that have appeared at two clubs. It was just a very public and embarrassing selfish act that the player has to deal with. Every opponent every week will be reminding him of it.

And I will leave it to you to assess your own football knowledge. And number of games is no metric of football knowledge going by some of the contributors to this site that I have read.

And number of games is no metric of football knowledge going by some of the contributors to this site that I have read.

Never a truer word spoken.

You see some auctioneers boast on their bio that they've been an auctioneer for 30 years. Yeah, they've been doing them badly every year for 30 years.

The mere fact that he ducked his head and lurched forward like he was going to be shot should be the give away to those giving him the benefit of the doubt. Especially when the contact he was expecting was metres away.

I'm not sure what is more embarrassing, Pedersen's effort, or the effort to give him the benefit of the doubt when there is no doubt.

....And number of games is no metric of football knowledge going by some of the contributors to this site that I have read.

I certainly agree with that. But I didn't claim to have great knowledge based on years of watching games, only that I had not seen anyone squib in the manner that Pedo apparently did.

I'm surprised that in all this fun you guys have not asked me what odds I put on my 'benefit of the doubt' actually being correct. You might be surprised by the answer.

in all this fun you guys have not asked me what odds I put on my 'benefit of the doubt' actually being correct. You might be surprised by the answer.

Too late for that.

I certainly agree with that. But I didn't claim to have great knowledge based on years of watching games, only that I had not seen anyone squib in the manner that Pedo apparently did.

I'm surprised that in all this fun you guys have not asked me what odds I put on my 'benefit of the doubt' actually being correct. You might be surprised by the answer.

ok ....I'll ask...what odds ?

ok ....I'll ask...what odds ?

tsk tsk bb, you know a lady never reveals her odds

I certainly agree with that. But I didn't claim to have great knowledge based on years of watching games, only that I had not seen anyone squib in the manner that Pedo apparently did.

I'm surprised that in all this fun you guys have not asked me what odds I put on my 'benefit of the doubt' actually being correct. You might be surprised by the answer.

I don't know why you are bothering Sue....it is only Huey Duey and Luey of the "I have watched footy since before it was called footy, and my opinion is the only opinion that is correct" Club.......there is a minority on here that label a player and it becomes a 'fact' bit like Nicho can't kick, Bail can only run etc.......if they have actually played by the way not one of them has ever squibbed a contest, made Leigh Mathews look soft when they play/played......haha

ok ....I'll ask...what odds ?

But Myth said it was 'too late'. I fear he meant in a not nice way 'too late to answer' rather than 'too late to ask', but in the spirit of Xmas, I'll answer. Given what Daisycutter said, I'll just say 'low'.

What got me going was the rude way my speculation was put down, followed by deliberate or sloppy misunderstandings of what I was saying. I should follow Saty's advice and stop bothering.

But Myth said it was 'too late'. I fear he meant in a not nice way 'too late to answer' rather than 'too late to ask', but in the spirit of Xmas, I'll answer. Given what Daisycutter said, I'll just say 'low'.

What got me going was the rude way my speculation was put down, followed by deliberate or sloppy misunderstandings of what I was saying. I should follow Saty's advice and stop bothering.

sue you should take consolation from being put down by the master put-downers of this forum

your arguments for the defence were well argued and ensured the defendant at least got a fair trial and retained your dignity

unfortunately the jury (whilst behaving like a parliamentary question time rabble) got the right decision in the end

sue you should take consolation from being put down by the master put-downers of this forum

I find Rhino to be quite fair.

I find Rhino to be quite fair.

Obviously said with tongue in cheek. If Rhino was fair, he'd still be a mod.

I certainly agree with that. But I didn't claim to have great knowledge based on years of watching games, only that I had not seen anyone squib in the manner that Pedo apparently did.

I recall Josh Hunt doing the same a year ago or maybe two years ago.

At that stage of his career he had played about 180 games, including premierships and was considered a tough guy. Additionally he is built like a brick sh-thouse.

It happens. We are all wanting the son of a Melbourne great to come to us and his dad did it in a final and personally I don't blame him at all. He pulled out of a clash with Dipper which probably saved him going off and straight to hospital. He was embarrassed and then went on to contribute for the rest of the game.

As I said it happens. We all expect our players won't ever pull out of a contest but some times it might be the smarter thing to do even though it can look bad at the time. Some people don't ever think of consequences and others do. It is human nature.

As for Pedersen if he can improve and not make it a regular thing, so be it.

Pulling out of being lined up by Dipper seems about as 'soft' as jumping over someone's leg stuck out going for a trip.

Survival around cheats. Yes, of course they sook and try to act like you're the weak one, when you don't just stand there letting them smack you.

Kudos to you sue for attempting to explain yourself.

Keep in mind that for some posters, one in particular, these are life or death matters that present an opportunity to belittle and achieve self worth. You have to anticipate reactions that are in accordance with that. Pay it the attention it deserves.

Pulling out of being lined up by Dipper seems about as 'soft' as jumping over someone's leg stuck out going for a trip.

Survival around cheats. Yes, of course they sook and try to act like you're the weak one, when you don't just stand there letting them smack you.

As Gary Lyon said he lost the respect of the whole club that day, he was a good player SS but courage wasn't his strong point and he admitted that himself , as Lyon said they had enough on there plate that day and they didn't need people taking short steps.

Rino is fair and just, just Like neeld was a great coach.

Rino is fair and just, just Like neeld was a great coach.

Fancy winning dummy of the year on January the 1st, well done bright spark.

Kudos to you sue for attempting to explain yourself.

Keep in mind that for some posters, one in particular, these are life or death matters that present an opportunity to belittle and achieve self worth. You have to anticipate reactions that are in accordance with that. Pay it the attention it deserves.

Yeah, you're quite right, many responses are just a lot of Myth and Wind.

Anyone have any footage to the SS approach on Dipper?