They missed out on the main draft - PSD or rookie?

[dee-luded 2,959]

key back is looking very thin ... I believe we need to look at Matthew Sully from Geelong VFL, Joel Tippett from West Adelaide or Koby Beard from Port Magpies.

yes I forgot to mention the tall backs, I looked at a couple in the rookie rightups. but I've not seen any of them at all.

lets hope we can get some backup for our keys.

I liked the idea someone suggested about trying to an extra selection which we could use in the PSD.

[Young Dee 1,303]

Bourke, Hourigan, Cain, Templeton, Tsitas, Christensen, and Weller, would be happy to get any of these guys, I still can't believe Templeton didn't get drafted, thought he would go second round.

If they are any good wont they just be snatched up by those with PSD picks whilst we are just left with the unwanted/mature players in the rookie draft.

I think the Byrnes idea is a good one.

[rpfc 28,390]

I know a few on here are sick of what they call my Byrnes bashing, but I don't see it that way. I have nothing against him, other than I don't see him as relevant to our future.

We have spoken ad nauseum about this club getting ruthless and actions are where it starts.

I don't see a role for Byrnes in the seniors anymore. I see several overlooked players in the draft who could offer the MFC many years, rather than Shannon's one at best IMO.

The Case For Byrnes in 2014

Are options for the specific Small Forward role in 2014 is Byrnes, Kent, Kennedy-Harris, or to forget about it entirely and rest a mid there.

Byrnes provides an option if we do not wish to put that burden on a 20 or 19 year old but still want to have a specialised small forward.

The Problem of Paying Out Contract and Retiring Players

Aside from this, I do not like paying out contracts or 'retiring' players as it sends a terrible message to the group to see a colleague told he is done before his contract says he is.

The Speculative Pick

The PSD2 pick that would be opened up is akin to ND80 - the chances that this player will be something worthwhile is incredibly low, however it really is moot as...

The Rookie Draft is Right There - why do we need to cut people?

There will be only a handful of picks in the PSD, and only a couple of players taken in DFA. Whatever player the club wishes to get should be available with the second pick in the Rookie Draft.

You Have To Delist Someone At The End Of 2014 Too...

If we were to pay out players right now that had little chance of a future at the club - we would not reach the minimum delistees in 2014. Byrnes time will come, most likely next year when we will again have decent picks and list spots desired.

Time to let it go, he was given a 2-year contract. And we will see it out. He was not useless last year and I hope he can contribute next year.

[rpfc 28,390]

And I thought that Evans and Nicholson had the same 1 year contract (that Evans extended this year) and that is why I have him as OOC in my Contracts Thread.

I update with confirmation on the site or in the papers.

[Rogue 585]

Pickett reminds me that I should add the perennial draft favourite Art Vanderlay to the above list.

If I could like this comment I would.

[Tough Kent 2,137]

And I thought that Evans and Nicholson had the same 1 year contract (that Evans extended this year) and that is why I have him as OOC in my Contracts Thread.

I update with confirmation on the site or in the papers.

I am Nicho's player sponsor. He is contracted for 2014.

[rpfc 28,390]

I am Nicho's player sponsor. He is contracted for 2014.

That's quite a reference.

Was he given a 2 year contract after being on the RL for two years? Funny how Evans was only given the one year.

[Tough Kent 2,137]

That's quite a reference.

Was he given a 2 year contract after being on the RL for two years? Funny how Evans was only given the one year.

He got two years after being upgraded. I'm only guessing here but was Pickles' one year contract a case of the club being concerned about his back injury at the time? It was a real show of faith from the club that ME was upgraded considering his injury circumstances.

[Redleg 40,902]

The Case For Byrnes in 2014

Are options for the specific Small Forward role in 2014 is Byrnes, Kent, Kennedy-Harris, or to forget about it entirely and rest a mid there.

Byrnes provides an option if we do not wish to put that burden on a 20 or 19 year old but still want to have a specialised small forward.

The Problem of Paying Out Contract and Retiring Players

Aside from this, I do not like paying out contracts or 'retiring' players as it sends a terrible message to the group to see a colleague told he is done before his contract says he is.

The Speculative Pick

The PSD2 pick that would be opened up is akin to ND80 - the chances that this player will be something worthwhile is incredibly low, however it really is moot as...

The Rookie Draft is Right There - why do we need to cut people?

There will be only a handful of picks in the PSD, and only a couple of players taken in DFA. Whatever player the club wishes to get should be available with the second pick in the Rookie Draft.

You Have To Delist Someone At The End Of 2014 Too...

If we were to pay out players right now that had little chance of a future at the club - we would not reach the minimum delistees in 2014. Byrnes time will come, most likely next year when we will again have decent picks and list spots desired.

Time to let it go, he was given a 2-year contract. And we will see it out. He was not useless last year and I hope he can contribute next year.

Disagree.

I thought Byrnes was useless last year.

Evans is another who could possibly play that role and maybe Blease, given his speed off the mark and the fact that it is not the most exhausting position on the ground.

We would still have a group of players to look at leaving next year and you only have to make 3 changes. That group could include Bail, Byrnes, Tapscott, Jamar, Strauss, Nicholson and even Pedersen paid out, etc.

Anyway, it is not going to happen, I just think it should and I haven't been convinced otherwise yet.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Nicholson is here to stay, and we won't be delisted or rookied.

Stay ? Try one year.

Good amateur player.

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

Shaw situation is not analogous. They were happy to move on Shaw when they got their price back in a trade. Shaw is a quality player suddenly deemed a cultural misfit by, in my opinion, a club that's a bit confused at where it is at the moment. Byrnes - given you want to him to be a coach and a mentor - is clearly a very positive influence. Wouldn't you rather him at MFC training helping teach Kennedy-Harris, Kent, Blease about the craft and the way Geelong small forwards are tought to play. Isn't that valuable.

The many problems I have with your idea start with the fact that in the position Byrnes plays we aren't deep and playing as a forward pocket I don't think he is that much worse than Bail, Evans and is arguably better, so he can sit at number three on the forward pocket depth chart. I agree he is very ordinary, but is it worth telling the football world that our club will happily burn a player to free a spot on the list for a player who went undrafted in a draft where clubs barely wanted to participate in at the middle and lower levels and from where we plucked a schoolkid from veritable obscurity. What message does that send players and management companies when we are trying to lure free agents? If there is a half-decent player in the PSD we will end your player's AFL career. Trying to weasel out of contracts, unless its completely necessary, is pathetic and I think you're plan would cost us in the cap next year as well, though I would probably need Baghdad Bob to confirm that.

Ignoring the hypocritical concept of getting him off the list to play him as a Casey player-coach, If you think he's [censored] just break his contract and [censored] him off. That's ruthless. Not we really like you but don't want you on our list anymore, because there is a player we like better than you, but not as much as Jayden Hunt. But we'd love you to go play at Casey and help us. I find it complete nonsense to be honest. The decision to give him the two year deal is a mistake, but was probably the only means to get him, another mistake. But to break his contract should only be done done for significant material gain - i.e Tom Bugg is available PSD. Because it comes at significant cost. It should not be done for a PSD pick, which is basically in effect, as mentioned above draft, pick 80. I also agree with RPFC that having his spot freed up at the end of 2014 is advantageous, given our penchant for acquiring delisted free agents, having seven or eight come off the list is a good fit. He also helps fill an experience/age bracket vacuum at the club - a reason so many are so buoyant about the decision to get Cross, admittedly a far better player.

I know you heart the PSD but at some stage your going to have to reconcile yourself to the fact it is a dying mechanism. I can also tell you that the player most would want at that spot, I wouldn't want coming anywhere near our club. I'm happy to cop Byrnes for one more year and hopefully Kent and JKH are all the better for it, whilst the prestige of our club continues to build amongst the football world.

[rpfc 28,390]

Well said, goodoil. But press enter once in awhile, please...

List management for next year would see Bail, Byrnes, Strauss, Blease, and Dunn under the gun. If Byrnes is delisted today, then it is one more you have to find next year.

[Whispering_Jack 30,036]

2013 PSD/Rookie Prospects Part 3

2013 PSD/Rookie Prospects Part 4

2013 PSD/Rookie Prospects Part 5

... and now we wait for a Phantom PSD and Rookie Draft. Anyone?

[Redleg 40,902]

Shaw situation is not analogous. They were happy to move on Shaw when they got their price back in a trade. Shaw is a quality player suddenly deemed a cultural misfit by, in my opinion, a club that's a bit confused at where it is at the moment. Byrnes - given you want to him to be a coach and a mentor - is clearly a very positive influence. Wouldn't you rather him at MFC training helping teach Kennedy-Harris, Kent, Blease about the craft and the way Geelong small forwards are tought to play. Isn't that valuable.

The many problems I have with your idea start with the fact that in the position Byrnes plays we aren't deep and playing as a forward pocket I don't think he is that much worse than Bail, Evans and is arguably better, so he can sit at number three on the forward pocket depth chart. I agree he is very ordinary, but is it worth telling the football world that our club will happily burn a player to free a spot on the list for a player who went undrafted in a draft where clubs barely wanted to participate in at the middle and lower levels and from where we plucked a schoolkid from veritable obscurity. What message does that send players and management companies when we are trying to lure free agents? If there is a half-decent player in the PSD we will end your player's AFL career. Trying to weasel out of contracts, unless its completely necessary, is pathetic and I think you're plan would cost us in the cap next year as well, though I would probably need Baghdad Bob to confirm that.

Ignoring the hypocritical concept of getting him off the list to play him as a Casey player-coach, If you think he's [censored] just break his contract and [censored] him off. That's ruthless. Not we really like you but don't want you on our list anymore, because there is a player we like better than you, but not as much as Jayden Hunt. I find it complete nonsense to be honest. The decision to give him the two year deal is a mistake, but was probably the only means to get him, another mistake. But to break his contract should only be done done for significant material gain - i.e Tom Bugg is available PSD. Because it comes at significant cost. It should not be done for a PSD pick, which is basically in effect, as mentioned above draft, pick 80. I also agree with RPFC that having his spot freed up at the end of 2014 is advantageous, given our penchant for acquiring delisted free agents, having seven or eight come off the list is a good fit. He also helps fill an experience/age bracket vacuum at the club - a reason so many are so buoyant about the decision to get Cross, admittedly a far better player.

I know you heart the PSD but at some stage your going to have to reconcile yourself to the fact it is a dying mechanism. I can also tell you that the player most would want at that spot, I wouldn't want coming anywhere near our club. I'm happy to cop Byrnes for one more year and hopefully Kent and JKH are all the better for it, whilst the prestige of our club continues to build amongst the football world.

I bow to your knowledge of the draft talent as I concede mine is close to nil.

I think your points are well made.

I disagree however with your point that under my plan he would not be able to impart his knowledge to the younger players. That is exactly what he would be doing as a playing assistant coach. Most of those young players will spend plenty of time at Casey and that is where he would be. He also would not be concentrating his efforts on getting a game for the MFC and in fact be vying for the same position as some of those he could actually mentor and teach.

I also disagree that you are burning him. Imagine yourself in his shoes.

Option 1 the Coach says, "you probably won't get a game for us this year as we are rebuilding and we will most likely delist you next year if that is the case."

Option 2. The Coach says " you probably won't get a game for us this year as we are rebuilding, you have had a good footy career, we want you to go out with dignity, as this club has stuffed up in that area in the past, you can announce your retirement from AFL, we will add a year to your contract and appoint you as an assistant playing coach for 2 years at Casey. We will add some money for the 2nd year and honour your contract in full this year. You will be a part of the Roos system and will gain further experience for your post AFL career"

I know which option I would prefer.

I won't go into which player we could get but, as I said I am certain that whoever we chose would be of more long term value and you would probably concede that.

Anyway it won't happen, it was just an idea.

Keep up the reports I enjoy reading your posts.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Redleg

[Whispering_Jack 30,036]

Redleg, hope you don't mind but next time we go out for dinner I might wear a Dees jumper with the number 10 on my back.

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

I bow to your knowledge of the draft talent as I concede mine is close to nil.

I think your points are well made.

I disagree however with your point that under my plan he would not be able to impart his knowledge to the younger players. That is exactly what he would be doing as a playing assistant coach. Most of those young players will spend plenty of time at Casey and that is where he would be. He also would not be concentrating his efforts on getting a game for the MFC and in fact be vying for the same position as some of those he could actually mentor and teach.

I also disagree that you are burning him. Imagine yourself in his shoes.

Option 1 the Coach says, "you probably won't get a game for us this year as we are rebuilding and we will most likely delist you next year if that is the case."

Option 2. The Coach says " you probably won't get a game for us this year as we are rebuilding, you have had a good footy career, we want you to go out with dignity, as this club has stuffed up in that area in the past, you can announce your retirement from AFL, we will add a year to your contract and appoint you as an assistant playing coach for 2 years at Casey. We will add some money for the 2nd year and honour your contract in full this year. You will be a part of the Roos system and will gain further experience for your post AFL career"

I know which option I would prefer.

I won't go into which player we could get but, as I said I am certain that whoever we chose would be of more long term value and you would probably concede that.

Anyway it won't happen, it was just an idea.

Keep up the reports I enjoy reading your posts.

There is no doubt there is umpteen players who it would be better to have on the list, from a future prospect standpoint. I wasn't suggesting that wasn't the case, just that I would rather have Byrnes than one of the more fancied non-drafted names out there, but I won't get into that on this forum. I agree Byrnes has been a very ordinary player for us, though he did have some constructive games, amidst many bad/invisible ones and some horror moments. I don't think he is completely useless and am happy to cop no games out of him in 2013 or the likely five game (3 crap ones, 2 OK ones) and five goal season he will produce in the understanding he will provide some leadership and is a positive influence for the younger players. In principle, I think it would be OK to tell him where he stands in terms of games played likelihood and see if maybe he will drive a retirement scenario. But I'm very uneasy about the future impacts of the club in any way trying to manipulate players, massage them off the list et cetera. I really think this is year zero for the club, just do everything 100% right from now. Not that your idea is of bad intention but some could perceive it to be devious and if the player wants to keep being in the AFL system, it can't fly anyway.

The third option is obviously: This is your last year at the club, we want you to compete hard for a spot and help teach and give value-add to our younger players.

I know you manifestly dislike Byrnes as a player, which is fair enough, not sure your thoughts on Cam Pedersen. The problem is where does it end? Pedersen has two years to go and if he doesn't improve this year, most will want to cut his contract at the end of next year. What do we do? One things for sure there seems to have been some contract length misjudgments being made, along with some experienced player assessment miscalculations.

[Redleg 40,902]

Redleg, hope you don't mind but next time we go out for dinner I might wear a Dees jumper with the number 10 on my back.

Big Carl was a great player for us, that will be fine.

[Redleg 40,902]

I know you manifestly dislike Byrnes as a player, which is fair enough, not sure your thoughts on Cam Pedersen. The problem is where does it end? Pedersen has two years to go and if he doesn't improve this year, most will want to cut his contract at the end of next year. What do we do? One things for sure there seems to have been some contract length misjudgments being made, along with some experienced player assessment miscalculations.

Pedersen also has one year too long on his contract. Two for him would IMO have been ok. He is more versatile and can fill a need if we have multiple injuries. Not a great player and I would imagine has no long term future with us.

If we add a bit more tall defensive depth in the rookie draft, I could imagine a conversation with him at the end of next season, if his form was poor. Having delisted Sellar, Davis, MacDonald and Gillies has made him a bit more necessary for list balance.

[DeeSpencer 25,682]

Pedersen also has one year too long on his contract. Two for him would IMO have been ok. He is more versatile and can fill a need if we have multiple injuries. Not a great player and I would imagine has no long term future with us.

If we add a bit more tall defensive depth in the rookie draft, I could imagine a conversation with him at the end of next season, if his form was poor. Having delisted Sellar, Davis, MacDonald and Gillies has made him a bit more necessary for list balance.

Redleg you seem keen on shuffling players back to the rookie list like it's a matter of just doing it. I was under the impression that contracted players are exactly that and it's at a minimum frowned up if not plain breach of contract.

We are always very obsessed with the lower reaches of our list. On the other hand Hawthorn and Geelong supporters have no interest in who has filled the lower reaches of their list because they aren't even paying attention!

We made a few bad decisions most born of attracting players (Byrnes, Pedersen) or retaining players in the GC, GWS poaching days (longer contracts to the likes of Nicholson) but hopefully we get our strike rate back to reasonable now with only the odd miss. Not giving up draft picks is actually the safe option really so it's more this years trade period and getting Tyson and Vince which represents danger as much as the last few years. Luckily this years trade period seems to have been engineered on sound principles by good operators but time will tell.

[Swampfox 190]

I doubt we will re draft anyone including Jetta or Taggert

I still think that Daniel Nicholson has a future at the club as a small defender

This years trade period has given us several midfielder options such as Cross , Vince, Tyson and possibly Michie who would be in our starting 22

These 3 - 4 players strengthens our Midfield considerably and who knows if Riley can make that list as well

I expect Salem to debut during the year and who knows how many games he plays

Roos has already stated their is no ceiling

ROOKIE DRAFT

There are still a few Midfielders to choose from and i expect that we will pounce on 1 or 2 of them

Cannot see the logic in picking mature aged Rookies that are basically wasted at Casey

I do think we need a Tall Defender and a Ruckman

I liked the selection of Jay Kennedy Harris as a small forward as a real need for us

Looking towards next years draft their does seem to be a few good tall choices unlike this years draft

Billy Stretch as a Father/Son Pick will also be under consideration

We also need to consider what we did with the Pick 2 / Tyson Deal might open more options in making our list better

The signature of Frawley will be important as well and we need to consider a team without him

[InVINCEable 358]

Okay I have been reading up a lot about preseason draft and rookie draft and I would like these guys.

Nick Bourke, Eli Templeton, Ben Cavarra, and Fraser Fort.

Mav Weller and Matt Thomas would go good too.

Still can't believe Templeton and Bourke didn't go second round.

[InVINCEable 358]

Forgot about Hourigan, I'd be happy with any of those guys.

Do we only have 4 spots?

[spirit of norm smith 16,448]

Agree Darcy Hourigan would be a big chance. I would like

#2 Sully / Tippett

#20 Templeton

#36 Hourigan

#52 Scott Jones

[daisycutter 29,613]

Agree Darcy Hourigan would be a big chance. I would like

#2 Sully / Tippett

#20 Templeton

#36 Hourigan

#52 Scott Jones

no mitch thorp?

[Redleg 40,902]

If we take Jetta as looks likely we will have 3 picks. I would not be upset if someone gazumped us on Jetta.