A crumbing forward, my kingdom for a crumbing forward

[Hannibal 5,814]

Surely any coach would take the wizard in his prime as a small forward without rotating him through the midefield.

The Wizard would be asked to play differently today. He had enough ability to have small stints on the ball and do it effectively.

[Fat Tony 5,269]

Roos requires his small forwards to be capable midfielders. If they're not they won't get a game. The game has moved on from a Steven Milne type.

I'd say that no matter how good they are as a small forward, if they're not a capable mid they won't play under Roos. The beauty about Kennedy-Harris is that he's shown he's very capable in that department. A great get.

I agree that small forwards need to be able to get up and down the ground, but Milne kicked more goals than any Demon bar Neitz. I still think there is a role for a lightly built goal sneak, albeit they can't just park inside the forward 50 and they have to tackle. If someone like Rioli couldn't go through the midfield he would still be a valuable player. And Garlett and Walters are very important to their sides.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I agree that small forwards need to be able to get up and down the ground, but Milne kicked more goals than any Demon bar Neitz. I still think there is a role for a lightly built goal sneak, albeit they can't just park inside the forward 50 and they have to tackle. If someone like Rioli couldn't go through the midfield he would still be a valuable player. And Garlett and Walters are very important to their sides.

A few sides are happy with just a quality small forward, which is why Adelaide took Betts - although he often plays as a leading small in the Mark Williams mould, but unless you're a bit of a freak, like Milne, you won't make it these days as just a small forward with most sides - and certainly not Paul Roos lead side. There's a reason Davey was delisted at Essendon and Leroy Jetta is on the outer. More and more clubs expect them to be able to rotate through the midfield.

[Arrow 1,257]

I agree that small forwards need to be able to get up and down the ground, but Milne kicked more goals than any Demon bar Neitz. I still think there is a role for a lightly built goal sneak, albeit they can't just park inside the forward 50 and they have to tackle. If someone like Rioli couldn't go through the midfield he would still be a valuable player. And Garlett and Walters are very important to their sides.

Lindsay Thomas also had a good year goal wise this year yet is incapable of moving up the ground. Few times had 4 goals from 6-7 touches. I don't think the pure forward pocket will be completely eliminated, however the fact we got a very good small forward who is capable of playing stints in the midfield will be especially beneficial in this sub and limited interchange era.

[rjay 25,092]

A few sides are happy with just a quality small forward, which is why Adelaide took Betts - although he often plays as a leading small in the Mark Williams mould, but unless you're a bit of a freak, like Milne, you won't make it these days as just a small forward with most sides - and certainly not Paul Roos lead side. There's a reason Davey was delisted at Essendon and Leroy Jetta is on the outer. More and more clubs expect them to be able to rotate through the midfield.

Agree 'Ben'.

Lindsay Thomas also had a good year goal wise this year yet is incapable of moving up the ground. Few times had 4 goals from 6-7 touches. I don't think the pure forward pocket will be completely eliminated, however the fact we got a very good small forward who is capable of playing stints in the midfield will be especially beneficial in this sub and limited interchange era.

Will be interesting to watch his progress this year. He almost operates as a 3rd tall.

[old55 23,701]

2013 GF - how much time did Rioli and Ballantyne spend on ball.

[rjay 25,092]

2013 GF - how much time did Rioli and Ballantyne spend on ball.

Rioli spends time in the centre bounce and from memory started the game there, Ballantyne had a shocker. It's not just mid time now its the ability to push right up the ground like Motlop and the Cats forwards do…but we've had these arguments before on the small forward, my opinion is they are on the way out at least at Melbourne under Roos and for good reason.

[Deez 298]

What do you think a small forward does for most of the game?

They are asked to spend 90 minutes of the game looking to, when we have the ball - get to the feet of the targets up forward, and when we don't have the ball - chase and harrass the HBFs trying to clear the football from our forward line.

The secondary role is a rotation through the middle.

If you cannot do the primary function - you won't play as a small forward. Ideally, he would be able to do both. But you are kidding yourself if you think that we are going to leave the better small forward out of the team for someone who isn't as good a small forward but plays the secondary role better.

Your both argueing the same point…

JHK has been drafted with the intention of being a handy small forward who is capable of of playing up the ground. Playing the small fwd role isn't necessarily more important than his efforts up the ground. If he can't put in the effort up the ground, he won't get a game. So obviously being the small forward is not the be all end all.

[old55 23,701]

Rioli spends time in the centre bounce and from memory started the game there, Ballantyne had a shocker. It's not just mid time now its the ability to push right up the ground like Motlop and the Cats forwards dobut we've had these arguments before on the small forward, my opinion is they are on the way out at least at Melbourne under Roos and for good reason.

Rioli makes cameos and Ballantyne as small fwd was integral to Freo getting to the GF, as rpfc says - it's primarily about their small forward fwd capability. The small fwd is not dead. The key observation is that while they've been very effective throughout the season they've found it hard in the GF pressure cooker, but that doesn't eliminate their value.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Fifty-5

[monoccular 17,574]

Yes, they would. If you cannot play an offensive or, failing that, defensive forward role - you won't play as a small forward.

The Wizard would be asked to play differently today. He had enough ability to have small stints on the ball and do it effectively.

I agree that small forwards need to be able to get up and down the ground, but Milne kicked more goals than any Demon bar Neitz. I still think there is a role for a lightly built goal sneak, albeit they can't just park inside the forward 50 and they have to tackle. If someone like Rioli couldn't go through the midfield he would still be a valuable player. And Garlett and Walters are very important to their sides.

Rioli makes cameos and Ballantyne as small fwd was integral to Freo getting to the GF, as rpfc says - it's primarily about their small forward fwd capability. The small fwd is not dead. The key observation is that while they've been very effective throughout the season they've found it hard in the GF pressure cooker, but that doesn't eliminate their value.

All above comments noted.

Any forward, probably more so a smaller crumber, just must be able exert pressure on the defenders as a primary function. Gone are the days when they can just do a few amazing offensive plays and keep their place. I am sure Roos would put a high priority on this. It sounds as if JFK should be able to fill this rôle.

Edited November 25, 2013 by monoccular

[rpfc 28,779]

Sadly JFK is dead. He was shot in Dallas some 50 years ago.

He also had back issues so he probably was never going to be a long term answer as small forward.

[Tough As Tiger 1]

Lets not forget the talented former Crow Peter Vardy either. Would love to turn back the clock and have him there swopping on the ball inside 50 in 2014.

[Deestroy All 14,266]

Lets not forget the talented former Crow Peter Vardy either. Would love to turn back the clock and have him there swopping on the ball inside 50 in 2014.

The 'rain man' game is still one of my favourites.

[Machsy 2,858]

Yeah. Davey was stiff to get delisted while Leroy Jetta kept his spot. Unless it was because of contracts it's hard to work that one out.

Problem for Alwyn is his age and the fact that clubs shouldn't be touching Essendon players until at least after the final ASADA report comes out.

At the end of 2012, I always had the feeling that despite some indifferent form, Essendon were going to hold onto Alwyn until he got his 100 games up, since his kids looked like gun prospective father-son picks from a very young age.

He finished his career at the bombers on exactly 100 games, and I suspect he was nursed through some matches to ensure he got there.