Can the MFC attract talent?

[nutbean 8,838]

Yeah that and the fact we don't look after the boys who played 200+ games for us.

Yze now fulltime at Hawthorn, Bruce upgraded to an assistant role.

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2013-10-14/hawks-confirm-coaching-changes

You mean like Pods and Chappie at Geelong.

Sad fact of football is that some players still want to play passed their use by date.

[alias275 259]

You mean like Pods and Chappie at Geelong.

Sad fact of football is that some players still want to play passed their use by date.

Not the best example. Chapman is still AFL competitive, just not for Geelong who cannot sacrifice their next gen's development by starving them of AFL games. He'll still play well next year where ever he ends up. Pod is just about there though

I was referring to them as sticking around the club and getting involved in coaching more than playing on. McDonald, Green, Bruce and now even Yze. All coaching at other clubs, all Melbourne 200+ gamers.

You'd hate for upcoming players to start thinking "bugger playing for Melbourne. You play your guts out for 200+ games and they'll show you the door"

[nutbean 8,838]

The perception in the industry is that we can't develop young players. The notion was used pretty heavily this trade period by opposition clubs when we approached their young players. heck even player agents aren't keen for their young stars to come to us.

I hope it doesn't make us try something desperate.

I reckon nonsense.

Its not a perception that we havent been able to develop young players - its fact. But to think that this is sticking point that opposition clubs and player managers are falling back on ? I think not - it is much easier to say - last year we were second only to GWS as the worst team in the league and GWS even have more to offer than we do - it may be a very long road back for the MFC to be called competitive - this is what is stopping players coming - more attractive alternatives. Unless a player is offered large dollars - then they wont come this year. If we show glimmers of hope then next year players may be more responsive to a move. Any player manager worth his salt can see that if George Stone comes (which is likely ?) then we have a good structure to develop youngster with him and Roos and others. Why ignore the main reason why players dont wont to come ?

[JJJ 1,161]

Chappy, I think is a mistake by Geelong but Pods won't be missed.

We are in serious strife at the moment in the open market. Any quality player we have approached so far has said 'no' and we seem to be lacking a couple of quality assistant coaches. We are massively on the nose.

The best thing it for us may be to trade for Viv, Vince and Lyons and draft BPA with pick 2 and do it hard again next year. Have a crack next year at the best available assistant going around and hope that we show some signs of improvement towards the latter part of 2014 to attract players. At this rate we will have some cash to spend.

Our list is unbalanced and in need of some coaching but the addition of some midfield depth could get us up to 5 wins.

Forwards:

Hogan, Clark, Dawes, Kent, Howe

Mids:

Jones, Watts, Toumpas, Viney, Trengove, Gawn, Spencer (Pick2, Michie, Vince & Lyons)

Backs:

Frawley, Garland, McDonald, Grimes, Terlich

[nutbean 8,838]

Not the best example. Chapman is still AFL competitive, just not for Geelong who cannot sacrifice their next gen's development by starving them of AFL games. He'll still play well next year where ever he ends up. Pod is just about there though

I was referring to them as sticking around the club and getting involved in coaching more than playing on. McDonald, Green, Bruce and now even Yze. All coaching at other clubs, all Melbourne 200+ gamers.

You'd hate for upcoming players to start thinking "bugger playing for Melbourne. You play your guts out for 200+ games and they'll show you the door"

Common practice for retired players to move into coaching elsewhere to get a fresh look at another club rather than fall into an assistant coaching role at your club. There is also a school of thought that it is easy apprenticeship to coach players you havent played with.

Look at Hawks and Freo's coaching staff - Hawks have two players ( Bruce being one of them) and Freo nil players who played for the club - dont they have players who have retired also ?

[nutbean 8,838]

Chappy, I think is a mistake by Geelong but Pods won't be missed.

We are in serious strife at the moment in the open market. Any quality player we have approached so far has said 'no' and we seem to be lacking a couple of quality assistant coaches. We are massively on the nose.

The best thing it for us may be to trade for Viv, Vince and Lyons and draft BPA with pick 2 and do it hard again next year. Have a crack next year at the best available assistant going around and hope that we show some signs of improvement towards the latter part of 2014 to attract players. At this rate we will have some cash to spend.

Our list is unbalanced and in need of some coaching but the addition of some midfield depth could get us up to 5 wins.

Forwards:

Hogan, Clark, Dawes, Kent, Howe

Mids:

Jones, Watts, Toumpas, Viney, Trengove, Gawn, Spencer (Pick2, Michie, Vince & Lyons)

Backs:

Frawley, Garland, McDonald, Grimes, Terlich

Not so worried about assistant coaches - but you just figured out we are on the nose ?

Taking off our Rose coloured Demons glasses - if you have any other club offer on the table and a MFC offer for comparible amounts of money which one would you take ?

Maybe Essendon because of their off field problems but if the players dont get hit with infractions they are still more appealing. I am not sure why this is a surprise to people.

One season under Roos where we show really advancement ( and that doesnt necessarily mean wins) and players may want to come. Until then - stinkaroo

[JJJ 1,161]

I reckon nonsense.

Its not a perception that we havent been able to develop young players - its fact. But to think that this is sticking point that opposition clubs and player managers are falling back on ? I think not - it is much easier to say - last year we were second only to GWS as the worst team in the league and GWS even have more to offer than we do - it may be a very long road back for the MFC to be called competitive - this is what is stopping players coming - more attractive alternatives. Unless a player is offered large dollars - then they wont come this year. If we show glimmers of hope then next year players may be more responsive to a move. Any player manager worth his salt can see that if George Stone comes (which is likely ?) then we have a good structure to develop youngster with him and Roos and others. Why ignore the main reason why players dont wont to come ?

Its not nonsense.

It's a fact that other clubs and managers are privately telling prospective FA's and players that we have approached that we can't develop our own.

What you are saying and I am hearing are pretty much one and the same anyway, our poor player development has lead to the rabble that we are and as you say, a less attractive alternative.

[JJJ 1,161]

Not so worried about assistant coaches - but you just figured out we are on the nose ?

Of course I didn't. This was always going to be a painful trade period.

You should be worried about our assistant coaches. With our ridiculous succession plan we need to show the footy world we have a legitimate plan. You don't think that Dylan Shiel would've asked who will be my coach after Roos retires? I can't believe you would not be worried about this.

I can tell you it is a concern for players.

[Wormburner 674]

To answer the thread question and quite simply - not unless we pay for it.

[Mono 455]

Of course I didn't. This was always going to be a painful trade period.

You should be worried about our assistant coaches. With our ridiculous succession plan we need to show the footy world we have a legitimate plan. You don't think that Dylan Shiel would've asked who will be my coach after Roos retires? I can't believe you would not be worried about this.

I can tell you it is a concern for players.

Agreed.

A year of competitiveness and no spin is needed.

[Grimseyisgod 378]

The club will be able to attract talent when we look like a club that actually has talent.

When performances improve, everything around us will seem to be more attractive, it's as simple as that

[nutbean 8,838]

Of course I didn't. This was always going to be a painful trade period.

You should be worried about our assistant coaches. With our ridiculous succession plan we need to show the footy world we have a legitimate plan. You don't think that Dylan Shiel would've asked who will be my coach after Roos retires? I can't believe you would not be worried about this.

I can tell you it is a concern for players.

I think everyone is getting way too caught up in this succession plan and has never been involved in one. I dont think players give a rats who is going to be coach in the 3 years - to the extent i dont think players arent coming because they dont know who the annointed one is. The players havent known in the past who is going to coach us in 3 years time and what about Hawthorn - their players wouldnt know either. We have succession plans for all our top management and it takes 5 mins to 5 months to a couple of years to find the right person. On top of that if the person touted as the successor doesnt measure up as expected then the person is out and we start again. We only have a couple more assistant roles to fill and if we dont find a successor this year - no biggie - we find one next year.

The succession plan is not ridiculous - either right person hasnt been found or hasnt wanted to come. I think the biggest problem is people is not understanding that succession planning is a journey. It is not the matter of rushing and finding the person put their feet in concrete and done.

I would be very surprised if there is not an out clause for both parties in the succession plan.

[rpfc 28,087]

Yeah, sat-home, out problem is fan whingeing about the shite we have thrown up in the last 6 years...

Do you read yourself? Are you Dr Who? You wanna fight about it? Am I drunk, maybe, who wants to know, I'm not driving I can do whatever I want.

[bing181 9,156]

I must be missing something. Who that we wanted/needed has turned us down and gone to another club? What trades have been done that we've missed out on or would have wanted?

The time for a thread like this is around 5 o'clock on October 25th ... or the evening of November 13 when the FA period closes.

Until then, no-one here knows what's (really) going on.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Roos has just commenced his FIRST season with us. He has at least two to three to go.

So, what about those clubs whose coaches are mid term, or even coming up for contract renewal next year? Do all players avoid those clubs as well because of a lack of a stated succession plan? Not much in that point IMO.

And, as an aside, all clubs would find it hard to dislodge the likes of Rockcliff and Sloane.

[Guest]

Yeah, sat-home, out problem is fan whingeing about the shite we have thrown up in the last 6 years...

Do you read yourself? Are you Dr Who? You wanna fight about it? Am I drunk, maybe, who wants to know, I'm not driving I can do whatever I want.

He's back? Finally plucked up enough courage to come back here after, oh I don't know, EVERYTHING HE SAID TURNED OUT TO BE WRONG LAST YEAR?!!!

Edited October 14, 2013 by Guest

[DemonFrog 1,347]

Would you want to join his team?

[Thehardtackler 785]

If we get Bernie Vincent then we have attracted talent and you can close this pointless thread.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

If we get Bernie Vincent then we have attracted talent and you can close this pointless thread.

Ouch!

[Webber 10,442]

Any idea that the club can't develop players as of the Roos/Stone period, that is NOW, are utterly redundant. It will NOT be an argument used against the MFC this trade/draft period because neither players nor management are that stupid to see it hasn't ALL changed. Some on here seem to be though.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

Any idea that the club can't develop players as of the Roos/Stone period, that is NOW, are utterly redundant. It will NOT be an argument used against the MFC this trade/draft period because neither players nor management are that stupid to see it hasn't ALL changed. Some on here seem to be though.

True we have coaches that finally can turn this sinking ship around but it will not happen over night.

If you are a player looking to join a Premiership contender Club well you would not consider coming to the MFC at this stage.

Success breeds success and failure simple breeds more failure, seven years of woeful results are not easily forgotten.

It would be very naive to suggest that simple chanding coaches will change everyones opinion on the MFC brand. It will help but in the end it will be the Clubs on field performance that truely matters.

[Webber 10,442]

True we have coaches that finally can turn this sinking ship around but it will not happen over night. If you are a player looking to join a Premiership contender Club well you would not consider coming to the MFC at this stage. Success breeds success and failure simple breeds more failure, seven years of woeful results are not easily forgotten. It would be very naive to suggest that simple chanding coaches will change everyones opinion on the MFC brand. It will help but in the end it will be the Clubs on field performance that truely matters.

No doubting all that, but specifically on development of players, any perceived failings of the past are now just that. A player will NOT baulk at coming to the club for fear of being poorly developed. In fact, the Roos/Stone team are historically a brilliant development set up. All other reasons not to come to the club relate to recent results, ladder position and 'culture', which is a very malleable intangible. As reasons to bypass the MFC they stand, but that has NOTHING to do with the CURRENT development qualities of the club.

[beelzebub 23,254]

Does Tyson qualify as talent ??

[Demon Stalwart 255]

MELBOURNE has secured outstanding young Greater Western Sydney midfielder Dom Tyson, plus picks No.9 and No.53.

In exchange, the Demons have given the Giants three draft selections: No.2, No.20 and No.72.

The 20 year-old is an excellent clearance player with fine vision and awareness. Tyson also possesses genuine composure with ball in hand, and is an excellent disposer by foot or hand.

Tyson, who was originally selected at No.3 in the 2011 NAB AFL Draft, made his AFL debut in GWS’ inaugural home and away clash against the Sydney Swans in round one, 2012.

Manager of Football Operations Josh Mahoney said: “We’ve been able to bring in a class midfielder in Tyson, and improve our second draft selection from pick 20 to pick 9 in what we see as a fairly even draft.

We have also been able to improve our pick 72 to pick 53, so the net effect of the deal is very positive for the Melbourne Football Club.”

In Answer to the Original Question on this Thread

YES

[Deestar3 167]

Can we attract talent? Effectively we have Jessie hogan (would have easily been between pick 1-5 this season) Dom Tyson a pick 3 with two seasons at afl level (& don't doubt his talent - taken behind Paton & coniglio ) for an unproven pick 2 ......he will grow with our other young midfielders, we have upgraded pick 20 to 9 , will use compo pick for Vince ( Sylvia out ...Vince in ) more upside for us I believe & pick 70 becomes 53. Throw in viv Michie at pick 54 & I don't see how anyone can complain. We also have barry & a host of other young players whom I look forward to watching develop with the right network behind them. Injuries, talent , form etc are variables that not one club can control with any player & only time will tell with all clubs whether their drafting is successful but I can see the nucleus of a very good competitive side forming. I'm realistic. There is a lot of hard work ahead but I believe off field we are in very capable hands & I am positive that the mfc in finally in the right hands & on the right path.