Whatever you wish to debate about the finer points and pros and cons of the "senior" players at the club over the last five years the single most important fact is that they failed.

And that is a fact.

Machsy - Moloney finally lost me on day 186. He must have known (assuming even two communicating neurones in his higher cerebral cortex, which may be an over estimate) that he was not up to it, and should not have played.

Certainly not the blame for 186, but his attitude towards that day - probably hoping to show it to his old teammates - was an indicator of just what he felt being a part of a team really meant.

http://www.scpaige.com.au/draftees-in-focus-nathan-freeman/

Thanks Machsy, couldn't have demonstrated it better.

I was saying all this when he was still at the club.

You may choose to ignore the negative effect a player has on his side, and solely focus on his production.

I won't. I want to actually win.

Same goes with a kid like Jordie McKenzie.

I love the guy's endeavour, great kid, but to date his net effect on the performance of the side has not been enough, and likely never will be.

Machsy - Moloney finally lost me on day 186. He must have known (assuming even two communicating neurones in his higher cerebral cortex, which may be an over estimate) that he was not up to it, and should not have played.

Certainly not the blame for 186, but his attitude towards that day - probably hoping to show it to his old teammates - was an indicator of just what he felt being a part of a team really meant.

I followed him closely from his days as a Warrnambool kid at the falcons, to his playing days at Geelong, then onto MFC.

I happened to be close friends with guys he played falcons with & at one time I'd have called him a friend.

Maturity made him more assertive, and bullish about his own ability, but not smarter unfortunately.

There's a reason Geelong chose to give him away.

But for anyone that watched him closely it was clear his influence had a net effect of hurting the team, as much as I'd have liked to believe otherwise.

I wanted him traded 2 years before he left. He is yet to make that look like a bad decision.

Watching the highlights of Freeman is like watching Luke Shuey.

good player

I'd be very happy if he fell to us

Quick point I'd like to query, regarding his possession tally per match. There is a genuine consensus going that he isn't an accumulator, but according to the AFL website in the 2013 draft section under midfielders, it states: "Medium midfielder who accumulates possessions at will. A genuine clearance specialist who continually puts himself in the right place to find the ball. Has a quick and explosive change of direction and distributes effectively by hand and foot." Now that is kind of compelling, his stats pretty much back this up, too..

2013 STATS Comp P K* H* M* G U18s 3 12.7 7.3 3.3 0 TAC Cup 7 15.4 7.0 4.7 4

Averaging around that 22 mark is quite sufficient for his type of player (burst,clearance, good user)feel,

So, the low possession thing doesn't really need to be a worry, you'd feel.

For anyone who might have missed this:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-20/nathan-freeman

He looks very good.

Just watched that highlights video - yes please! Obviously it's a tiny sample of his "highlight" plays but he seems to have a well-weighted kick, burst speed and a good attack on the footy. Would love either one of him, Sheed or Crouch.

Just watched that highlights video - yes please! Obviously it's a tiny sample of his "highlight" plays but he seems to have a well-weighted kick, burst speed and a good attack on the footy. Would love either one of him, Sheed or Crouch.

Agreed. And you'd think given the fact that West Coast are now at pick 11, we'll be able to grab Sheed before them, should if we so desire.

I know they're highlights packages but I found the Freeman video a bit underwhelming. Good speed but just seems to run (granted quite fast) sometimes into then out of trouble and jam it on the boot. Did not show him winning the ball well or showing good decision making or really even looking that balanced as a running mid.

I found the Lennon video the most satisfying of the players that could be around the mark of our pick. Good size, decent speed, well weighted kicks, showed clean hands and decision making.

Hey but I wasn't impressed with Hogan in the champs so what would I know

I know they're highlights packages but I found the Freeman video a bit underwhelming. Good speed but just seems to run (granted quite fast) sometimes into then out of trouble and jam it on the boot. Did not show him winning the ball well or showing good decision making or really even looking that balanced as a running mid.

I found the Lennon video the most satisfying of the players that could be around the mark of our pick. Good size, decent speed, well weighted kicks, showed clean hands and decision making.

Hey but I wasn't impressed with Hogan in the champs so what would I know

Yeah I thought Freeman looked a bit rushed and I appears to hurry it on the boot.

Most impressive highlights for mine were Salem and Taylor.

I know they're highlights packages but I found the Freeman video a bit underwhelming. Good speed but just seems to run (granted quite fast) sometimes into then out of trouble and jam it on the boot. Did not show him winning the ball well or showing good decision making or really even looking that balanced as a running mid.

I found the Lennon video the most satisfying of the players that could be around the mark of our pick. Good size, decent speed, well weighted kicks, showed clean hands and decision making.

Hey but I wasn't impressed with Hogan in the champs so what would I know

Interesting because I personally thought the Freeman video was much more impressive than Lennon. If you look at the stats Lennon didn't get as many touches. I'd assume he played through the forward line more? So my impression was, he got through the packs well and got the goals but Freeman took the game on and ran through the middle. I loved the footage early on where he was trying to shake his man just to get the touch.

I know they're highlights packages but I found the Freeman video a bit underwhelming. Good speed but just seems to run (granted quite fast) sometimes into then out of trouble and jam it on the boot. Did not show him winning the ball well or showing good decision making or really even looking that balanced as a running mid.

I found the Lennon video the most satisfying of the players that could be around the mark of our pick. Good size, decent speed, well weighted kicks, showed clean hands and decision making.

Hey but I wasn't impressed with Hogan in the champs so what would I know

I know that there are Dangerfield comparisons being throw around left right and centre, but I think that the comparison might be better made with Swan.

He's not silky smooth but he is a great, powerful athlete. But, his major strength is his ability to go ultra hard for bursts and then rest. Freeman won the repeat sprints very comfortably at the combine. It's that sort of unique ability that gives you the chance of being better than just a good AFL player. As long as his kicking is not 'Nicholson' bad, then I'd be very tempted. But I'd also be very happy to grab either KK or Lennon.

After getting our hands on some quality inside ball winners (plus Jones and Viney) I think balancing it with a ball carrier would make sense.

Something I noticed about Freeman ( and a few others) in the reel was he backs himself. He will dish off and re-present a little further up. How refreshing. its almost a foreign concept to many a Demons team. Im happy to have anyone with a good tank, good core and an understanding of how to actualyl play the game....to take it on.

Come on! Selective memory!

Moloney WAS and IS a consummate spud. He was nothing but a selfish meathead.

Look at how well he has gone at Brisbane.

Good at one thing and one thing alone - if the ball is rammed down his throat by Jamar at a stoppage, he can bullock his way through a pack before slamming the ball on his boot indiscriminately.

He got a lot of the ball that way, but rarely found it in open play.

Horrible defensively, poor agility meant he had a hard time sticking a tackle, and his name and the phrase "footy smarts" have never been used in the same sentence. He's somewhat of a leader, but a negatively influencing leader.

He was a long straight kick, but he was no great talent when it came to spotting up a target.

Some positives, but so many negatives that people gleefully overlooked because he was getting his hands on the pill.

Trust me, most other teams noticed and were happy to let him get it, adding to his false economy.

It's no coincidence that in 2010 when we smashed Sydney by 70 odd points that Moloney was out of the side.

Or that he was stinking it up in the middle during 186.

Rivers has a degenerative knee condition, and the club knowing this offered him peanuts.

He gets a game at Geelong, but they need to nurse him through the season to have him right for finals.

And it's only getting worse.

And how about Moloney ordering his mate Jamar to only tap to him?

Doesn't make Jamar look great either, but did that give any other mid half a chance?

I can't believe those that have some insight into the inner workings of the club, yet fail to realise what a cancer Moloney was.

Hit the nail on the head there Machsy! Seriously spat the dummy when Neeld decided that he wouldn't be the only one getting the "Jamar ball!" Glad he is gone and other than one good game against us.....?

I know they're highlights packages but I found the Freeman video a bit underwhelming. Good speed but just seems to run (granted quite fast) sometimes into then out of trouble and jam it on the boot. Did not show him winning the ball well or showing good decision making or really even looking that balanced as a running mid.

I found the Lennon video the most satisfying of the players that could be around the mark of our pick. Good size, decent speed, well weighted kicks, showed clean hands and decision making.

Hey but I wasn't impressed with Hogan in the champs so what would I know

Hmmm Lennon to the Dees? ...Imagine

A touch faster but the way Freeman plays is very Luke Shuey like as well with the way he accelerates with the ball. I thought more Shuey than Dangerfield

Disposal looked quite average for mine.

Disposal looked quite average for mine.

I thought his kicking action looked a bit awkward or "unco" but looking at the outcome they seemed to get to their target and be perfectly weighted kicks - granted its a small sample size but I thought it looked OK, probably not great but good.

Like Zac Jones his kicking can be improved. I'd have no issue with Freeman at 9.

With a few of those kicks he was doing the team thing and getting the ball forward quickly from a stoppage. When given time his kicking was fine.

Strong, pace to burn and confident enough in his ability to use his assets. He's exactly what we need imo. That said, Sheed and a couple of others would also be good. We should pick up a very good young midfielder in this draft.

Having watched his higlights package I agree with the recent comments regarding Freeman's possible short comings . As well as Lennon the players who really impressed me were Luke Dunstan, not quick but makes great decisions and laser like by hand or foot, the other was Chris Cain, quick, clean and two sided

Having watched several of the highlights packages, I'm surprised that conclusions about what a player is really like can be drawn from such small samples of play. But in the absence of more information, I enjoy reading the posts.