Not just the first and second year players. Watch the excrement hit the fan when some players are delisted (as surely some would be in the normal course of events). Health concerns could be in the courts for years. And I suspect the AFL may be a co-defendent.

This line of 'we never kept records of what players were given what' is absolute crap. WADA/ASADA surely can't be buying it. What gets me is the arrogance of Hird.

This line of 'we never kept records of what players were given what' is absolute crap. WADA/ASADA surely can't be buying it. What gets me is the arrogance of Hird.

Add to that the temerity of Little. i dont decry the club the notion of fighting but really its just a very big bluff.

Call them on it WADA

Nice after match press conference tonight with JH saying the players have been cleared, um James not yet they haven't. Sounds like a few of them aren't buying that line anymore.

Comments like this can't be doing the players any good at all.

The way Hird and Little are acting can only cause anger at AFL HQ and at ASADA.

It will bite them in the ar$e big time.

No players cleared yet.

The Bomber Jet is falling to pieces in mid air, loosing altitude as we speak.

If the players and families revolt James, you are in enormous poo.

I watched the original presser live in Feb.

you were guilty as sin that day and you know it.

But keep up the charade i and others are enjoying the proceedings immensly.

Pilots eject when in plummet.....

It was interesting to read Stephen Dank quoted as saying that the four people charged are people of the highest integrity and the highest standards of duty of care

To me that was a coded message which means as follows:

If you won't tell : I won't

I suspect that if somebody's life depended on it all those records could be discovered within 30 minutes

Yep and I'll bet that the Four Aminos aren't all that happy to be associated with Dank at this juncture. Of course, Dank's loyalty to the club that sacked him stands in stark contrast to some of the rats who got the Khyber from Melbourne but then again, if what's alleged about the supplements programme introduced at Essendon is true, he would be smart to hold that line.

Still, if the Bombers persist with their threat to go to the law then I wonder what would happen if Dank and his documents were subpoenaed?

Eventually it may be the players who will detirmine the Gang of Four's ultimate fate. Their last four games have almost sunk to Melbourne under Neeld standard. The loyalty that Hird commanded a few months ago may be evaporating fast.

This is the captain speaking.

You will have noticed the turbulence we have been flying through .

I just want to assure you all it will be fine.

If you look out to your right youll notice two life rafts.

We , the Four Aminos (©WJ) are safe and well and wish you all a safe crash landing.

This has been your captain speaking....speaking ...speaking ....

Sorry - can't claim the copyright on the Four Aminos. I saw that in a Patrick Smith article.

Clever though.

With the article on Bruce Reid today in the Herald Sun, it is clear the PR war Essendon is waging. Simple really, our 4 guys are great guys and the AFL and ASADA are a bunch of thugs.

When will they understand that no one is saying these guys deliberately gave players illegal drugs. While one charge we know of, suggests that, it has an alternative, that they allowed it to happen, without actually knowing what was given. They admit that, so why the angst.

As Patrick Smith said saturday in the Australian, Hird at the conference in february said I take full responsibility. Siince then he has taken none. He is delusional. He is not really being called a drug cheat, he is being called sloppy in his management of his team and he knows it. Hird however, sees himself as bigger than the club and the game.

They are charged with being in charge of an injecting program, where what was taken, by who and when, is either not recorded or has been destroyed. That is what got the players off, as you can't pin a charge on a player if you don't know with certainty, what was taken and when. That is also what hangs Essendon and the 4 officials. It was their job to know. Additionally, they are unable, because of that, to detail possible side effects to players of the drugs they used. Further, that they had secret waivers with the players, that were not provided to the AFL, in clear breach of the rules.

They are guilty as sin of the charges above. Worse still, there are many more charges.

If Reid wrote a letter saying he was unhappy with the program why didn't he take it further after getting no reply. Bomber Thompson is said to have been unhappy with the program, likewise, why didn't he take it further, Corcoran and Hird held the top positions and allowed it to happen under their watch.

As WJ said above, if it goes to Court, all gloves are off and all people involved can be made to talk and clearly more evidence will come out.

Hird and the club say they want it all to come out and then fight like hell to stop it.

I understand that Essendon are trying to save the club and their mates, but IMO they are doing the opposite and they are the ones acting like thugs.

Yep and I'll bet that the Four Aminos aren't all that happy to be associated with Dank at this juncture. Of course, Dank's loyalty to the club that sacked him stands in stark contrast to some of the rats who got the Khyber from Melbourne but then again, if what's alleged about the supplements programme introduced at Essendon is true, he would be smart to hold that line.

Still, if the Bombers persist with their threat to go to the law then I wonder what would happen if Dank and his documents were subpoenaed?

So would have Dean Bailey

With the article on Bruce Reid today in the Herald Sun, it is clear the PR war Essendon is waging. Simple really, our 4 guys are great guys and the AFL and ASADA are a bunch of thugs.

When will they understand that no one is saying these guys deliberately gave players illegal drugs. While one charge we know of, suggests that, it has an alternative, that they allowed it to happen, without actually knowing what was given. They admit that, so why the angst.

As Patrick Smith said saturday in the Australian, Hird at the conference in february said I take full responsibility. Siince then he has taken none. He is delusional. He is not really being called a drug cheat, he is being called sloppy in his management of his team and he knows it. Hird however, sees himself as bigger than the club and the game.

They are charged with being in charge of an injecting program, where what was taken, by who and when, is either not recorded or has been destroyed. That is what got the players off, as you can't pin a charge on a player if you don't know with certainty, what was taken and when. That is also what hangs Essendon and the 4 officials. It was their job to know. Additionally, they are unable, because of that, to detail possible side effects to players of the drugs they used. Further, that they had secret waivers with the players, that were not provided to the AFL, in clear breach of the rules.

They are guilty as sin of the charges above. Worse still, there are many more charges.

If Reid wrote a letter saying he was unhappy with the program why didn't he take it further after getting no reply. Bomber Thompson is said to have been unhappy with the program, likewise, why didn't he take it further, Corcoran and Hird held the top positions and allowed it to happen under their watch.

As WJ said above, if it goes to Court, all gloves are off and all people involved can be made to talk and clearly more evidence will come out.

Hird and the club say they want it all to come out and then fight like hell to stop it.

I understand that Essendon are trying to save the club and their mates, but IMO they are doing the opposite and they are the ones acting like thugs.

Actually I think they will be proven to be drug cheats. They willingly and knowingly pushed the limit and allegedly went over the line. Yes that is mildly different to someone who intentionally seeks to go over the line but still guilt. If I am robbing a bank and carrying a gun to menace people and the gun goes off and kills someone then i still 'dunnit'. I can argue it wasn't intentional but not that I am not guilty of a crime. Nor jurisdictional boundaries or lack of procedure or the fact that me and my three accomplices are great blokes who didn't mean to kill anyone.

Let's just say for a minute that one of the Essendrug players died - we don't what WTF we injected into him but we are not guilty. According to ziggy it was a pharmacological experiment. This is where they are delusional. And they harder the fight, the bigger the sledgehammer will be when they get squashed.

As for their supporters wearing sombreros to the footy they are delusional as well. Its all a great joke. FMD what morons.

we don't what WTF we injected into him but we are not guilty. According to ziggy it was a pharmacological experiment. This is where they are delusional.

How can they conceivably evaluate the efficacy of a program without keeping records? I don't think delusional does it justice. I half expect them to say that they did keep records, but the dog ate them.

How can they conceivably evaluate the efficacy of a program without keeping records? I don't think delusional does it justice. I half expect them to say that they did keep records, but the dog ate them.

And of course it will be Dank's dog, not theirs.

It's like the cheese shop that is bereft of any cheese...

It's like the cheese shop that is bereft of any cheese...

dont come here looking for an argument

dont come here looking for an argument

I told you once....

This line of 'we never kept records of what players were given what' is absolute crap. WADA/ASADA surely can't be buying it. What gets me is the arrogance of Hird.

Don't bet on it Al.

It depends on what the underlings doing the ground work are being instructed to do from the top, including lawyers etc who are also under instruction.

There's some huge money and big players involved here who have much to lose. Essendrug are also a very powerful wealthy club with big [censored] backers at the top end of town. If you think the most important potential game changing decisions are being left solely to ASADA's scientists/investigators to determine (as ideal as that might seem), think again.

Really? Have you any evidence to support that there are any other parties who control the ASADA investigation? If so, can you name who these parties are?

I love a good conspiracy theory. Its even better with a few actual facts.

I think its fanciful to believe that "top end of town" can manipulate their way in this matter.

This is not an investigation controlled by the AFL. Its controlled by ASADA.

ASADA is the Australian statutory whose role is to represent and carry the agenda of WADA, the World Anti Doping Agency.

People need to realise the eyes of the sporting world are on Australia. This is not just about AFL/NRL....its about how we monitor, discover and punish in line with WADA rules...persons who take or service banned substances.

The ASADA process needs to be systematic, independent and thorough. If the process has been contaminate influenced or corrupted then Australia's high standing in the international sporting world as a hard anti drug country would be in tatters.

Already there are sports that have been under the ASADA/WADA kosh that are wondering how a player (Jobe Watson) can state that he believes he took a banned substance be under investigation but still be allowed to compete. If it were a swimmer, athlete or cyclist today that would be shamed or stood aside.

When ASADA finalises its report now that it has its additional powers then both the report and the integrity of the process behind it would be scrutinise closely. ASADA would/should have know this since the ACC began its investigation that lead to their report in February.

This line of 'we never kept records of what players were given what' is absolute crap. WADA/ASADA surely can't be buying it. What gets me is the arrogance of Hird.

In simple terms they have either been duplicious and underhand in the way they have breached the system or they have been incredibly reckless and negligence.

The arrogance of Hird is a close second to the extent of the delusion that has been held by the four aminos, Little and Evans. Its breath taking.

If they had dismissed 3 of the 4 aminos in April and stood aside Hird until the ASADA investigation was cleared he may if no infraction notices resulted have an avenue to resurrect his good name and career.

All 4 aminos have stains on their football records that wont wash even if the ASADA report does not issue an infraction notice.

Paul Little is completely off his rocker if he believes the Club has dealt with this matter. They havent and will be forced to....and not on their terms.

Rhino, as you should well know by now, never let facts get in the road of a good conspiracy theory.

Besides i did say it "depends" on who's instructing who. Regardless, no doubt everything is being conducted "above board" and in fair and just manner for all concerned! I'm sure the outcome for Essendrug will be befitting of whatever misdeanours may have taken place, both within the hallowed halls of the Windy Pill offices and those of the anti-ageing clinic (or wherever else the alleged 1,500 injections of various unknown/unidentifiable substances may have been administered).

Just had this emailed to me. A good chuckle if you've not already read it.

My Essendon Lie By James Hird

(To the tune of American Pie)

[intro]

A long, long time ago

I can still remember how Shane Charters used to make me smile

And I knew if I had my chance

That I could make my players dance

And maybe they'd be stronger for a while

But 2013 made me shiver

With every paper that was delivered

Barrett on my doorstep

I couldn't take one more step

I can't remember if I cried

When I read about how they proved I lied

But something touched me deep inside

The day my fiction, died

[Chorus]

So bye-bye, to my Essendon Lie

Took my Bombers to the top, and built up our pride

And my good old boys injectin another peptide

Singin' "No-one will ever know that we lied

No-one will ever know that we lied"

[Verse 1]

Did you write the book of push & shove

And do you have faith in Demetriou above

If the AFL tells you so?

Now do you believe in 9604,

And how drugs save your football soul

And can you teach me how to inject real slow?

Well, you know that I was in love with Dank

Since I saw him injectin out the back

We both beefed up our tans

To show off to all our fans

I was a lonely rookie coachin' buck

With a Brownlow medal and a million bucks

But I knew I was out of luck

The day they found I lied

[Chorus]

I started singin' bye-bye, to my Essendon Lie

Took my Bombers to the top, but then our hamstrings died

And my good old boys injectin another peptide

Singin' "Hope they never find out we lied

Hope they never find out we lied"

[Verse 2]

Now for ten games we've been out on our own

With hidden texts on my mobile phone

But that's not how it used to be

When the rumours came that we werent clean

When in truth we were as high as James Dean

But the drugs came from Dank, not me

And while me, the king, was counting cash

ASADA found my hidden stash

The courtroom was adjourned

Until the ASADA verdict was returned

And while Sam Newman read a book from FARC

The media stakeout in the park

And we injected in the dark

The day our dreams died

[Chorus]

We were singin' bye-bye, to my Essendon Lie

Took my Bombers to the top, but no-one knew why

And my good old boys injectin another peptide

Singin' "Do you think that the media has spied?

Do you think that the media has spied?"

[Verse 3]

Helter skelter in a winter swelter

The wheels fell off in another belter

Eighth place now and falling fast

Another player lying on the grass

A hamstring sprung trying a short pass

Another player on the sidelines in a cast

Now the premiership air is sweet perfume

While Meatloaf sings an awful tune

Wed all love the September dance

Oh, but well never get the chance

'Cause if the players try to take the field

Will ASADA refuse to yield?

Will we ever really know what was revealed

The day my dream died?

[Chorus]

We were singin' bye-bye, to my Essendon Lie

Took my Bombers to the top, but then David Evans cried

And my good old boys injectin another peptide

Singin' "ASADAs looking and Id better go hide

ASADAs looking and Id better go hide."

[Verse 4]

Oh, and there we were all in one place

An entire season lost in space

With no chance left to start again

So come on, Jobe be nimble, Jobe be quick

Watson sat On the Couch real quick

('Cause Roosy is the Demons only friend)

Oh, and as I watched him on the stage

My hands were clenched in fists of rage

No angel born in Hell

Could break that Roosy spell

And as the ratings climbed high into the night

To light the sacrificial rite

I saw Roosy laughing with delight

Thats when, they knew, I lied

He was singin' bye-bye, to my Essendon Lie

Took my Bombers to the top, but our success was a lie

And my good old boys injectin another peptide

Singin' "Now our premiership dreams are fried

Now our premiership dreams are fried "

[Verse 5]

I asked my girl who hates the Blues

And I asked her for some happy news

But she just smiled and turned away

I went down to the AFL store

Where they all loved me years before

But the man there said that finals, we wouldn't play

And in Bay 13, the Bombers screamed

The Magpies cried and the Hawks all dreamed

But not a word was spoken

The servers all were broken

And the three men I admire most

The Demetriou, The Dank and the Charters Ghost

They caught the last train for the coast

The day theyd found Id lied

And they were singin' bye-bye, to my Essendon Lie

Took my Bombers to the top, but then our hamstrings died

And my good old boys injectin another peptide

Singin' "I cant believe they found out we lied

About ever having seen a peptide

[Chorus]

They were singin' bye-bye, to my Essendon Lie

Took my Bombers to the top, but then our hamstrings died

And my good old boys injectin another peptide

Singin' "I cant believe they found out we lied

Ha ha that's brilliant McQueen!!

Did you do that?