I agree with what you say and I'm staggered that McDevitt has made the offer in that way because my understanding is that previously you needed to show co-operation with ASADA and that a result of that co-operation other anti doping violators are punished.

The other factor in this is how would WADA react?

I read into it that if they acquiesced now, their cooperation during the interviews would be taking into account. However if they launch legal action and start fighting the process now (as the club wants to do) then they will lose that benefit.

smack'em

Essentially the EFC is going the Lewinsky defence

They took the drugs orally?

Reading the HS in a coffee shop just now (preferring not to subsidise them) they are unashamedly seeking to manipulate public opinion in favour of EFC

Players were " duped"

ASADA chief on 774 AM atm

who is saying that the ASADA act is predicated on the concept of cooperation with the various sports governing authorities

ASADA " has firm legal grounds " to engage in joint legal investigations

I agree with what you say and I'm staggered that McDevitt has made the offer in that way because my understanding is that previously you needed to show co-operation with ASADA and that a result of that co-operation other anti doping violators are punished.

The other factor in this is how would WADA react?

From what I have read on McDevitt, he doesn't go off half-cocked. He will have checked with WADA before holding out this olive branch.

?...........

As for Captain Narcissus, his $2m contract buys a lot of mirrors.

Just dawned on me why he chose the Paris option.....probably visits The Hall of Mirrors at Versailles every day :-)

"@GerardWhateley: McDevitt says case against players won't collapse if Federal Court rules joint investigation unlawful"

This is the best. In other words, do what you like essendon we will still ping you.

"@GerardWhateley: McDevitt says case against players won't collapse if Federal Court rules joint investigation unlawful"

This is the best. In other words, do what you like essendon we will still ping you.

In other words, they are pushing [censored] up hill. They are well and truly trucked.

I was just speaking to some bombers supporters at the gym and they were arguing that they are innocent, I find it hard to believe how many people are in denial

I was just speaking to some bombers supporters at the gym and they were arguing that they are innocent, I find it hard to believe how many people are in denial

did you ask them what it is they consider themselves 'innocent' of ?

did you ask them what it is they consider themselves 'innocent' of ?

Um....er....(prolonged blank silence).....

WE JUST ARE....!

Bang, bang Maxwell's Silver Hammer ...

Dank's stunning admission

That article is the sealer. Dank made a terrible mistake based on his hubris. That's why ASADA has recently re-interviewed Alavi and Charters - to shore up the evidence. Essendon FC and Hird know they are totally cooked and that's why they are resorting to challenging the process, not the evidence - they need that evidence disallowed because it is so damning. ASADA have thrown the Essendon players a lifeboat with the 2 years down to 6 months and as Redleg says, they'd be mad not to jump in it. I think there's justice there - while I agree with Deanox's excellent case that the players are ultimately responsible, I also agree with Bob's argument that they were horribly misled. The villain in this is Hird who has put his own reputation ahead of everything and everyone else.

I've had the exact same experience.

One bombers supporting adamant that they're saving the code:

"Be serious. This is the only action to take. & every Club would if they could afford it. 11 clubs, including yours are thankful for this witch hunt.

"If you thought your club hadn't taken any illegal substances, would you want them to admit they had just foot the good of the game. Sorry, but no [censored] way.

"Taking a penalty is admitting they systematically doped players. They believe they didn't. We compromised once - we got [censored]. Never again."

I remember participating in forum tough-talk about tanking. Didn't get us anywhere, either.

Does the outcome of the court case about the process have any effect on WADA?

The Show Cause Suite, in effect means that it is up to the Players to prove that what was injected was not illegal!!

Totally gooooone because as no records exist but proof made of injections taken place this unfortunately for the players means Adios!!

Injectiondon in total denial! Little and his band of administration must know in their experience of business that the jigger is up!

What will probably transpire regardless of any court delay will be:

1 Players given a lifeline of 6 month ban. this will hurt them in the short term and means another wasted season.

2 A total clearout of those in the know including Hird (who I think his reputation now must be totally ruined ) Thompson, Doc Reid, Simon Goodwin and anyone else who was in the know!

Worse aspect is Hird taking his own legal action, trying tooth and nail to protect what skerrick of reputation he has left.

Only the Essendon brain washed could possibly feel he is innocent.

Buck stops at the top. He was Coach he should take total responsibility, His Ego is at Warp factor 10 and rising.

He has admitted no shame, no liability, and so therefore from where I sit has no morals, and no idea!

Feel for the players but, onus now is on players to become more aware of what exactly is going into their bodies and to question this practice.

A simple example of this is each time cortisone is injected into tissue it has a anti inflammatory effect and can last 3 months or so but the joint, ligament etc breaks down and weakens because of the properties of cortisone. But normal bods on the street wouldn't know that, much less question a doc who administers it. I reckon players also would not question because after all this is an AFL Football club.

I wonder how many of them now feel allegiance to the jumper and a regime which blatantly went all out for glory, whatever the cost, leaving ethics, moral obligation and player welfare at the bottom of a lavatory!

I think times are about to change!! Players will now question ( as they should) as part of a collective responsibility of clubs to keep players in the loop particularly with medical. prescriptive medications and injectionable substances.

The players association too, will be now looking at player welfare and that will open up yet another aspect to this sad and sorry saga.

That's my take.

That article is the sealer. Dank made a terrible mistake based on his hubris.

The other related issue is the distinction between the "good" thymosin and the "bad" thymosin. Essendon has gone to great lengths to claim that they only received the "good" thymosin (although they have no record of what they got). The "good" variety is used to treat Hepatitis B and C and to boost the immune response in the treatment of other diseases. The "bad" thymosin (TB4) improves muscle tone, helps repair tissue and fight inflammation. Athletes have reported that injecting this peptide benefits building muscle and recovery from injuries.

Dank's text to the Weapon (Robinson) in August 2011 -

"Don't forget how important thymosin is.

"This will be our vital cornerstone next year.

"It is the ultimate assembly regulatory protein and biological modifier.

"Thymosin is so effective in soft-tissue maintenance."

What explanation do you reckon would be to your reasonable satisfaction?

The cornerstone of the sports scientist's plan was a drug to treat hepatitis or one to help build muscle and aid soft tissue repair?

I can't wait for a book to come out about all this... it will read like Underbelly. It will won't be allowed to be released in Victoria though! :-(

The other related issue is the distinction between the "good" thymosin and the "bad" thymosin. Essendon has gone to great lengths to claim that they only received the "good" thymosin (although they have no record of what they got). The "good" variety is used to treat Hepatitis B and C and to boost the immune response in the treatment of other diseases. The "bad" thymosin (TB4) improves muscle tone, helps repair tissue and fight inflammation. Athletes have reported that injecting this peptide benefits building muscle and recovery from injuries.

Dank's text to the Weapon (Robinson) in August 2011 -

"Don't forget how important thymosin is.

"This will be our vital cornerstone next year.

"It is the ultimate assembly regulatory protein and biological modifier.

"Thymosin is so effective in soft-tissue maintenance."

What explanation do you reckon would be to your reasonable satisfaction?

The cornerstone of the sports scientist's plan was a drug to treat hepatitis or one to help build muscle and aid soft tissue repair?

BANG!!

And now we wait. Id be very surprised if there are not players seeking sage counsel ( better late ) whether from family or other circles about their ( not the clubs ) future.

At some point players will walk away from the circus that is EFC and want to retake control of their careers

Once one does, others will follow and the club will be in a very dark place.

I can't believe how much time I've spent trawling through this thread, following the links, listening to a lot of people make quite passionate but calmly presented opinions.

Some people have gone to a lot of trouble to clarify a story that has been massively obfuscated by 'certain involved parties'.

Thank you to them.

So, I just want to summarise what I understand of all these different comments and stories and paper-trails.

The Club;

- It is alleged that the Essendon Football Club operated a major program of injections of banned performance-enhancing substances.

- Most members of the chain of responsibility, from the senior coach to the club doctor, were substantially aware of the nature of this program.

- There were varying degrees of hesitation and anxiety expressed by some of these officials, but no decisive rejection of the program by any person.

The Players;

- The players may or may not have known the particular nature of the substances.

- The code is explicit that players are considered responsible and culpable for any banned substances which they use or which are 'used on them'.

- It seems apparent that players did not personally verify the appropriateness of their supplement/drug program.

- However, imperfect and changing information on the WADA/ASADA websites, imperfect and possibly wilfully incomplete information provided to players by those administering the program, and the apparent assent of the club doctor, may reduce the reasonable culpability of the players.

- The standard, indeed mandatory, penalty for players is a 2 year suspension from competition. However, this may be reduced to 1 year if reduced culpability is shown. Some further reduction may be applied for 'cooperating' with relevant authorities.

The Fans;

- Essendon supporters would appear in general to have gone for the 'full buy-in' option, believing in the innocence of their players in particular, as well as in the innocence of deeply loved coaches and club champions.

- In the event of the formal revelation of unambiguous proof of guilt... they will experience genuine psychological trauma related to massive cognitive dissonance. Those who remain with the club will be split between revolutionaries and reactionaries, and they will not have a good time.

What's the situation for us?

- If numerous Essendon players are suspended, they will be unable to function as a football team unless they engage in extensive trading to spread the 'damage' to other lists.

- Melbourne should take any chance to grab, say, Hibberd and Heppell for cheap; it's definitely worth waiting out the one-season missed for these valuable young players.

- David Zaharakis, who is officially noted as NOT being subject to any form of infringement notice, is a pivot. We should be offering him every dollar we can get because he will come with 30,000 disillusioned (i.e. care more about integrity than Essendon) former bomber fans. The nice bomber fans. Plus he's a handy player.

I've got no qualms about circling like sharks around the Bombers. Frankly, the only way they can have their honour restored from here is by being ripped apart and put back together slowly.

Interesting point. What is Zaharakis worth in a trade?

Interesting point. What is Zaharakis worth in a trade?

nothing he just signed a new 3 year deal. Yes I know if the players are suspended they cant play. Isnt it a good thing he hates needles and thats why he refused. Otherwise he'd be in trouble.

did you see all the fans turn up to training and think the world is against them.

By the way Bomber, when you said at your presser if it was your sister, brother or son you'd want them to fight, I would have said they wouldnt get themselves in that position and would have asked what the hell were in those injections.

nothing he just signed a new 3 year deal. Yes I know if the players are suspended they cant play. Isnt it a good thing he hates needles and thats why he refused. Otherwise he'd be in trouble.

did you see all the fans turn up to training and think the world is against them.

By the way Bomber, when you said at your presser if it was your sister, brother or son you'd want them to fight, I would have said they wouldnt get themselves in that position and would have asked what the hell were in those injections.

I can have no other impression of Thompson now than that hes just a [censored] !!

Dont want him anywhere near our great club.

His snake oil selling of their "predicament" is just pathetic

In other words, they are pushing [censored] up hill. They are well and truly trucked.

And not just any old hill, but a lonely windy hill.

I wonder if they pushed [censored] up Hille?

:D