Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[biggestred 4,975]

Im almost starting to wonder if the primary reason was simply to give a heads up in the hope whatever the EFC did thereafter would mitigate the fallout and pressure on the League as a whole.

I think even Vlad may have been caught flat flooted and off guard as to the breadth and scurrilousness of the Windy Hillers.

Of course thats the reason AD made the call. He needs to protect the league, sponsors and tv rights.

Of course essendon have now burned their bridges with the afl... idiots

[Redleg 40,775]

I know many people here disagree strongly with my approach and think the law is the law and that is it.

Well the law is an ass.

That oft repeated statement doesn't help your argument one bit.

We live in a democratic society that needs the law to provide our protection. Our law is not perfect, but neither is any other suggested style of governing.

To knock it because you feel sorry for some footballers who have been treated badly by their club, doesn't advance the argument.

It is not the Law's fault that the Essendon players were injected weekly by their club.

[Redleg 40,775]

I think this is too harsh on Dr Reid who did write and put his reservations regarding the dangers (both biochemical and potentially legal) on paper

Then did nothing else and allowed it to continue. I was not too harsh on him. I was too lenient.

[Slartibartfast 17,095]

That oft repeated statement doesn't help your argument one bit.

We live in a democratic society that needs the law to provide our protection. Our law is not perfect, but neither is any other suggested style of governing.

To knock it because you feel sorry for some footballers who have been treated badly by their club, doesn't advance the argument.

It is not the Law's fault that the Essendon players were injected weekly by their club.

So there's no bad law?

[Redleg 40,775]

So there's no bad law?

Of course there is. But you are not condemning a particular law and suggesting a change, you are condemning the law, ( all of it ). That is my point.

Maybe I have misunderstood your point.

[bing181 9,191]

So there's no bad law?

These are not bad laws, and are framed as they are in response to more lenient laws having been abused by people peddling exactly the kinds of arguments that you are.

[bing181 9,191]

Saad has had his AFL career taken away from him because he drank and energy drink.

Which contained an amphetamine.

[Whispering_Jack 29,690]

Of course there is. But you are not condemning a particular law and suggesting a change, you are condemning the law, ( all of it ). That is my point.

Maybe I have misunderstood your point.

I think the anti doping laws are good laws that have been well thought out to deal with rapidly developing scientific innovation that seeks often to be a step or two ahead of the people charged with detection and enforcement. The difficulty is with the fact that the anti doping codes are designed to operate world wide and across several legal systems. It becomes even more difficult when applied in team sports and the set up of Essendon's programme with the shady characters and the patent attempts to conceal what the players were given, the lack of co-operation by the club and the people involved as well as the deliberate attempts on behalf of vested interests to obfuscate the facts and issues by use of friends in the media have made this a problematic issue.

Bottom line is that you shouldn't blame the law operating here but rather the human beings and some are dreadful examples of humanity who have, in the main, let the players down and exposed their health and their futures in the sport.

[Whispering_Jack 29,690]

It's worth taking emotions and allegiances out of the equation and take the time to read this long piece from Samantha Lane - After WADA, anti-doping still in the blood for John Fahey

[Hulett Packard III 166]

It's worth taking emotions and allegiances out of the equation and take the time to read this long piece from Samantha Lane - After WADA, anti-doping still in the blood for John Fahey

Sounds like we're getting close to the end game. We can expect more attacks on ASADA from the Essendon camp and their media acolytes.

[biggestred 4,975]

Ex-Essendon player pretty much says he has no idea what he was actually given. Unsure about impacts to health. Wowee.

Former Essendon player Sam Lonergan really unsure about supplements impact on health

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Lonergan would not be on his own out of the 40 Essendon players.

Can't help feeling Lonergan feels let down by Essendon.

Regardless of whatever he signed at the Club, the inability of the Club yo be able to confirm treatments is extraordinary.

I wonder if there is a legal cone of silence on those investigated by ASADA. Once the investigation is finalised and the notices come off, it will be interesting how the suspended players really feel about the Club and officials they wrongly trusted.

[Whispering_Jack 29,690]

Ex-Essendon player pretty much says he has no idea what he was actually given. Unsure about impacts to health. Wowee.

Former Essendon player Sam Lonergan really unsure about supplements impact on health

It seems to me that the former players are more forthright and open about their situation than the incumbents. Lovett-Murray also revealed his concerns a few weeks ago about Dank's practices at Essendon and it continues to boggle the mind that nobody seems to be able to locate the whereabouts of any record of the thousands of individual treatments given to the players. Even more so is the fact that so many in the media are trying to play down the severity of this situation which can only be described as "high farce".

[Cards13 9,117]

Yet they all still back the club which seems to be different from the no neck boys up north where a number of Cronulla players have already commenced legal action against that club and Dank. It is interesting the difference between the League guys and the AFL guys where as yet no AFL or ex-players have started their own legal action as yet.

[beelzebub 23,311]

Whod have ever guessed that Neanderthals were more astute than Australis patheticus !!

[Dees2014 2,377]

What I found most interesting was these quotes from Dank's lawyer:

Dank’s lawyer, Greg Stanton, said if any charges were eventually laid, his client would challenge ASADA’s jurisdiction and the scientific basis for including peptides such as CJC1295, SARMS and Thymosin Beta-4 on a banned list.

“When and if it ever gets to a properly convened tribunal, there is a fundamental issue as to whether these substances should have ever been banned according to the relevant science in the first place,” Stanton said.

“One of our ultimate goals is, and we are gathering science at this point in time, is to demonstrate that these substances should have never been banned.”

They must be desperate if they think they can get anywhere going down the path of arguing the science.

Even if they could produce the necessary expertise, surely WADA has to work on the assumption that if a 'supplement' is not part of ordinary nutrition and they ban it, it is banned. Even if it turns out after many years of research that the 'supplement' is totally ineffective at improving performance.

The key point here is that all parties have signed up to the WADA code, and that says that they must not takes drugs on the WADA banned list unless given specific exemption to do so. It is WADA who determines what should be banned under its code, not tribunals or courts of law.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Yet they all still back the club which seems to be different from the no neck boys up north where a number of Cronulla players have already commenced legal action against that club and Dank. It is interesting the difference between the League guys and the AFL guys where as yet no AFL or ex-players have started their own legal action as yet.

The AFL players may well be keeping their powder dry until the ASADA investigation is finished.

Seems a reasonable view.

For the NRL players, they could poorly advised, desperate or both.

Roy Masters holds a view that the nature of the substances that may have been used at Cronulla may be worse than Essendon given rheir training is focussed more on strenfth than endurance.

If infraction notices are issued to AFL players I would expect significant legal activity in the fall out.

[Cards13 9,117]

Brand H will be back to "reward" Bombers supporters and he will be back coaching in round 23. Lucky devils....

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/james-hird-says-his-essendon-return-will-reward-supporters-20140318-hvjws.html

[daisycutter 29,596]

wow, the hubris is staggering

whatever happened to "i accept full responsibility"

[rjay 24,811]

Brand H will be back to "reward" Bombers supporters and he will be back coaching in round 23. Lucky devils....

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/james-hird-says-his-essendon-return-will-reward-supporters-20140318-hvjws.html

wow, the hubris is staggering

whatever happened to "i accept full responsibility"

Amazing....

[Bedraggled Dee 336]

Poor excuse for a leader this bloke. The AFL was too scared to do the right thing and chuck him out if the sport last year. They will be well rid of him and his crony's once the ASADA investigation is completed and the hammer blow falls. I cant see how the AFL can allow this irresponsible lunatic to be placed back in charge of young peoples mental and physical well being regardless of the outcome of the ASADA thing.

[biggestred 4,975]

wow.

[Sir Why You Little 36,894]

Psychopath = no remorse

[The Reverend 1,736]

Amazing....

Just plain sad. Time for Hird to go away for good. His contribution to the game is forever tarnished. He should walk away quietly and leave a note of apology on the desk.

[old dee 23,682]

Just plain sad. Time for Hird to go away for good. His contribution to the game is forever tarnished. He should walk away quietly and leave a note of apology on the desk.

There is way more chance we will win the flag this year Reverend.

Way more!