Although it will never be proven unless Shane carter is in massive poo somehow and needs to give information but I would be quite confident that hird used in his playing days. what exactly who knows but you don't change your thinking to PEDs and if he is happy to be injected for a tan, I have no doubt he would of taken something that was note edge...makes me wonder about wooey as well

Do others think hird may have tested the boundaries in his playing career?

My wife's a Nurse at the hospital that treated Hird for those facial injuries he suffered against the coasters, IIRC he was back playing around 4 weeks later, the Doctor that treated him recently told my wife that at the time it was astonishing how quickly his recovery from facial surgery was...... fast healer?

Good luck with that argument. It's unlikely to wash - you need to eat about a dozen cows in a day to register a minimal trace.

Could well be but here's WADA's advice on the subject.

Didn't hird miss exactly a year with stress fractures?? Interesting

Everyone comes out with an excuse! Didn't condor use the same excuse when he tested positive in the Tour de France???

Well, Rogers hasn't come out with an excuse. But given that there's an official WADA warning, it's obviously more than just smoke and mirrors.

Also, it's basically a training drug, used for weight loss, not a performance-enhancement drug per se. The conjecture re Contador is that he'd had a blood transfusion on the rest day at the Tour de France, and that the stored blood (extracted during a training period) contained Clenbuterol.

Anyway, I wasn't saying he is/isn't innocent at all, was just commenting that it seems very odd: no clenbuterol cases in cycling all year, then suddenly two in the same day from guys who have been racing in low-key events in China at the end of the season.

And just to keep this on-thread: marked difference here between the treatment of the cyclists concerned and the Essendon players. Even though there aren't yet confirmed positives (waiting for the B sample to be tested for that) or charges, the riders have been suspended by their teams. OK, no Essendon players tested positive, but then neither did Tiernan Locke in the UK, and he's been suspended as well.

I was about to post this on the sack AD thread but it has been locked.

Some posters seem confused as to what is governance and what is management. There seems also to be suggestions that somehow AD has been guilty of poor governance.

As the CEO AD manages the AFL, the commission is responsible for governance. The commission, like any board sets the strategic direction of the organisation and it is their responsibility to ensure there are the appropriate systems in place, for example to make sure the strategic plan can be implemented and ensure that risk is managed appropriately. The bombers supplement fiasco is the perfect example of this. There was - as Ziggy made clear - a complete breakdown of their reporting and risk management systems. In short a failure of governance for which their board was responsible. Of course there were also numerous examples of poor management (CEO, coach etc etc).

Sure the CEO is connected to this governance system because he is the boards representative but he reports to the board. As an example the decision to create GWS was the commissions, and AD was charged with the responsibility of making it happen. So whilst you could perhaps argue that it is really AD's baby, so to speak, if there is any criticism about the decision to take the risk it should be towards the board. If there are criticisms of how, say, the implementation has been managed then yes they can be directed at AD.

A terrific example of the distinction between governance and management was the decision to have a joint AFL/ASADA investigation. In the excellent Jon Pierek article in yesterday's age he makes a good point that this decision has now proved to be a flawed one. No doubt some will criticize AD for the decision but he didn't make it, the commission did. Sure he might have pushed for it and recommend the commission agree to go down that track (as part of his management role) - and often boards might go with the recommendation of their CEO - but it was their call. I'm sure as part his performance review the commission might well reflect on the quality of advice they received from AD.

But whilst i tend to agree with Pierek the choice to go with the joint investigation this is not an example of poor governance, perhaps a poor choice but not poor governance. And for that matter whilst you could easily criticize the management of the tanking saga i can't see any governance issues.

I can understand how AD's management style might be criticized, particularly his penchant to put himself out on a limb. I can also agree that some of his choices could be questioned - for instance his support for a joint investigation - but these do not represent a failure of governance. Against that by the sort of metrics that apply to a CEO of an organisation as big as the AFL even his critics would have to agree that he has been successful. His salary and the bonuses he has received are evidence of this.

Whilst agree in general with this post, strong CEOs, as AD undoubtedly is, usually get their way with boards (in the AFL case the Commission, staffed by commissioners). He could have implemented closer scrutiny on Essendon if he had have chosen to. In fact I believe he should have done so.

In my experience, good Boards set the benchmarks on strategy and governance, and the CEO is expected to meet those benchmarks. I bet if we examined the governance benchmarks of the AFL Commission, it would be exemplary in terms of best practice. If this is so, the commissioners should be at the very least asking some difficult questions of the CEO.

I have met a couple of AFL commissioners in the past, and I got the impression they held AD in almost a God-like status. To be fair to them, he has taken the AFL from being just another football organisation, to being the wealthiest, and most powerful sporting organisation in Australia, and the AFL is now regarded internationally as being world’s best practice in terms of sports management.

It is precisely these sorts of situations when all powerful leaders sometimes suffer from hubris. I would be asking if the AFL, and its all powerful CEO, is in this category. The Commission should be giving him an awfully hard time at the moment, and if the Essendon situation ends up as I believe it will i.e. infraction notices sent to a dozen plus players, and writs being served from players on Essendon, the AFL and Hird. This will result in tens of millions of dollars in damages being paid out, and the competition will be compromised for several years resulting in a less than full payment of broadcasting rights.

Under those circumstances, then I think there will be a good case for AD to be forced to resign, and probably the Chairman of the Governance sub-committee of the Commission as well. Maybe even Mike Fitzpatrick himself.

Edited December 19, 201311 yr by Dees2014

Whilst agree in general with this post, strong CEOs, as AD undoubtedly is, usually get their way with boards (in the AFL case the Commission, staffed by commissioners). He could have implemented closer scrutiny on Essendon if he had have chosen to. In fact I believe he should have done so.

In my experience, good Boards set the benchmarks on strategy and governance, and the CEO is expected to meet those benchmarks. I bet if we examined the governance benchmarks of the AFL Commission, it would be exemplary in terms of best practice. If this is so, the commissioners should be at the very least asking some difficult questions of the CEO.

I have met a couple of AFL commissioners in the past, and I got the impression they held AD in almost a God-like status. To be fair to them, he has taken the AFL from being just another football organisation, to being the wealthiest, and most powerful sporting organisation in Australia, and the AFL is now regarded internationally as being world’s best practice in terms of sports management.

It is precisely these sorts of situations when all powerful leaders sometimes suffer from hubris. I would be asking if the AFL, and its all powerful CEO, is in this category. The Commission should be giving him an awfully hard time at the moment, and if the Essendon situation ends up as I believe it will i.e. infraction notices sent to a dozen plus players, and writs being served from players on Essendon, the AFL and Hird. This will result in tens of millions of dollars in damages being paid out, and the competition will be compromised for several years resulting in a less than full payment of broadcasting rights.

Under those circumstances, then I think there will be a good case for AD to be forced to resign, and probably the Chairman of the Governance sub-committee of the Commission as well. Maybe even Mike Fitzpatrick himself.

Is, or was ????

…. and the AFL is now regarded internationally as being world’s best practice in terms of sports management.

By who?

Everyone comes out with an excuse! Didn't condor use the same excuse when he tested positive in the Tour de France???

Wolfie it is exactly the same 'excuse' for the same drug. I think most are a little jaded on the it wasn't me story especially in cycling but again lets wait and see.

Is, or was ????

Is. It still receives a number of visits from a variety of sports organisations from around the world every year. I believe second only to the AIS. This to some extent is due to Australia's world-wide reputation of being a sporting super-power, but the AFL being the best in this market attracts its share of attention. That will not change.

Great post Dees2014. I agree completely.

I dont think anyone can look at the AFL over the last decade and not think the game has been well run. Record growth in money and crowds dont happen by themselves. Expansions into lucrative untapped markets the admittedlay are still in question but are required to grow the game. That being said the last year has not been a good one for the CEO. I think he has done what he thinks is right but a couple of key decisions in hindsight have turned out to be errors.

Demetriou most likely warned Evans of the ACC info and while he did it in the best interests of the competition it has blown up in his face and created a bad perception. The joint investgation was at the time a reasonable idea for the AFL (I dont know why ASADA would agree to it) but in practice has created more problems than it solved. Flowing from this is the issue of the muddying of the AFL governance investigation through its timing with the release of the ASADA interim report which the AFL was forced to distance itself from as evidence for the govenance issues. This was just messy and gifted Hird chinks in the armour ot attack.

Overall the AFL's handling of this has been messy and has just reinforced Essendon and Hirds jaundiced views that the AFL and AD are not treating them equitably and fairly and they are not receiving natural justice. Combine this with arrogance and and intransigence, an unwillingness to accept any wrong doing and a healthy dose of paranoia and we here we are.

Ironically I think Essendon and Hird despite their views have got off extremely lightly.

By who?

By Vlad

So much good work done on behalf on the AFL has been brought undone by those that lay to fast and cute with the truth.

AFL highly regarded by World Authorities ?? get your hand off of it.. maybe once.. But Windy Gate has brought everything crashing back to earth.

Now Bombers lose Danny Corcoran.

Danny Corcoran leaves as Essendon restructures executive

so now we have the situation that all the chiefs responsible at Essendon have left except a certain Mr. Hird.

I seem to remember him saying he took full responsibility.

Yet he is still there getting paid for no work and an increased term.

It must be because it is close to Christmas and my brain has gone it Christmas mode.

But how does that work?

It does not work for me OD. He is a dog!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have nothing but contempt and disgust for any team he remains involved with. If you haven't noticed this s&$#s me that he has got away with it.

It does not work for me OD. He is a dog!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have nothing but contempt and disgust for any team he remains involved with. If you haven't noticed this s&$#s me that he has got away with it.

I'm not so sure he will get away with it in the longer run. If some players are rubbed out, others sue etc, his name will be mud even to Essendon supporters (the rational ones at least) and he'll have to rely on counting his $'s in a lonely mansion.

Maybe Danny Corcoran has a good idea what is coming.

Just my first thought after i heard it mentioned on the wireless this morning.

Maybe Danny Corcoran has a good idea what is coming.

Just my first thought after i heard it mentioned on the wireless this morning.

ditto. We'll see.

Now Bombers lose Danny Corcoran.

Danny Corcoran leaves as Essendon restructures executive

Don't tell me Danny on full pay as well,even though he has left. That club is a real gravy train for those less ethical amongst us.

Maybe Danny Corcoran has a good idea what is coming.

Just my first thought after i heard it mentioned on the wireless this morning.

Good point

Maybe Danny Corcoran has a good idea what is coming.

Just my first thought after i heard it mentioned on the wireless this morning.

Sorry wyl but I can't help myself !

How many batteries does your radio hold ?

Merry Xmas and thanks for your input this year.

Now Bombers lose Danny Corcoran.Danny Corcoran leaves as Essendon restructures executive

Will no doubt leave having signed a non disparagement agreement with a confidentiality clause.

Sorry wyl but I can't help myself !

How many batteries does your radio hold ?

Merry Xmas and thanks for your input this year.

I have a '64 Hitachi Wireless that takes 3 of those Barrel D Batteries.

I must get some newies you reminded me!!

I also have 2 other Digital radios, but you cannot reproduce that old Tranny sound except from the originals!!!

So this is Christmas.....

I have a '64 Hitachi Wireless that takes 3 of those Barrel D Batteries.

I must get some newies you reminded me!!

I also have 2 other Digital radios, but you cannot reproduce that old Tranny sound except from the originals!!!

So this is Christmas.....

I bought a digital radio wyl and it eats 4 aa batteries in about 1.5 hours.

Gone back to the old tranny.

Same number of batteries last two months.

I bought a digital radio wyl and it eats 4 aa batteries in about 1.5 hours.

Gone back to the old tranny.

Same number of batteries last two months.

mine has a built-in rechargeable battery

just plug it in to the nearest usb port to charge (<1 hr)

even works on the train