Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[ManDee 7,375]

At the risk of offending you ManDee your expectation is doomed to disappointment.

Humans being what they are the boundaries will be broken the only question in my mind is when.

That is why we have rules and punishment for those who transgress.

The EFC saga is a long way from over but already there is plenty of evidence that some of the transgressors have got off scot free or near to it. There are also a couple who have so far seemingly profited from the experience.

I cannot see most of the organisations you suggest doing anything more than sitting on their hands. All too hard for them.

Please keep on expecting but dont be surprised when the next transgression happens it is just around the corner

OD you sure know how to rain on a mans parade.

I live in hope.

[robbiefrom13 894]

Lleyton Hewitt's manner playing and talking about himself finished my interest in tennis as a spectator sport. I was embarrassed as an Australian, and personally put off by him. When tennis comes on the news now, and I see as normal further displays of that sort of behaviour, or the aggro women, it confirms my loss of interest. I'm not even curious any more. It's like for years Jim O'Dea spelled St Kilda, or Mitch Robinson has been the face of Carlton, in my mind - like for many of us, reacting to the Kangaroos is really just about Boomer Harvey - and I just don't want to know. it doesn't entertain me, so much do I dislike it.

My father gave footy away years ago, though he was a keen Essendon supporter for many years. He told me what had tipped the scales for him - I forget what it was, but at the time I know I saw his point and thought yes, but that doesn't do it for me. But something could, I have no doubt. Neeld was a fair chance, if he'd lasted much longer. If Essendon gets away with this cheating, and AFL becomes no more than the fake wrestling, I expect it will kill my interest in AFL.

I know I stopped wanting to go to games when we were tanking. I did not respect the Eagles' premiership when they bulked up and crushed everyone else, because I thought they had cheated; other years I admire or hate the Premiers, but their success I just disregarded, waited for them to go away.

I think Essendon getting off would be a level of corruption that would forever taint footy with "yes but..." I'm not making a threat or anything, not trying to be punitive, not bitter, or angry - just not into it, like I'm not into Hollywood demolition/shooting/flagwaving type movies. If I knew the AFL was allowing cheats to prosper, I can't see why anybody would go on imagining the game was still tribal or sporting competition. Essendon are exposed here as having seriously attempted to turn football into a whatever-it-takes space-race, defended with QC's and lies. If they get to do that, hijacking the competition and re-writing the de facto rules, and are not hounded out of the game in order to save the game, I can't see myself caring about going along to see their new invention. It's just not what I'd pay to watch - and I'd be astonished if there weren't huge numbers of others who would leave too. Check out any cathedral this Sunday, and see what's happened there.

[beelzebub 23,392]

Lawyers for 32 of the 34 former and current Bombers issued with infraction notices want the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority to surrender its entire body of evidence before the AFL anti-doping tribunal sits.

ASADA is of the view it should only be required to hand over evidence it will rely on to prosecute its case. (News.com)

I find it mildly amusing that EFC's lawyers want all the evidence gathered by ASADA. Probably because EFC shredded everything they had. ASADA think only the evidence it will rely on to prosecute its case is enough.

Is this another delaying tactic? What could they possible hope to gain? Perhaps someone at EFC ordered some 50/50 KiaOra cordial and therefore they could not have taken prohibited substances!

Dunno...I'm hoping for another 2 years personally !!

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

Lawyers for 32 of the 34 former and current Bombers issued with infraction notices want the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority to surrender its entire body of evidence before the AFL anti-doping tribunal sits.

ASADA is of the view it should only be required to hand over evidence it will rely on to prosecute its case. (News.com)

I find it mildly amusing that EFC's lawyers want all the evidence gathered by ASADA. Probably because EFC shredded everything they had. ASADA think only the evidence it will rely on to prosecute its case is enough.

Is this another delaying tactic? What could they possible hope to gain? Perhaps someone at EFC ordered some 50/50 KiaOra cordial and therefore they could not have taken prohibited substances!

I suspect they'll be on a fishing trip, looking for some evidence that was too inconsequential or irrelevant for ASADA to pursue but can now be used to suggest some sort of failure on ASADA's part detrimental to the players' interests. When one loophole closes, find another ... and they would seem to be more interested in loopholes than the truth.

The article linked in a post above suggests, though, that it's the AFLPA's lawyers who are trying this on. I thought it was Essendon that was supposed to be paying the players' way. For those more in the know, does the reference to the players' association's lawyers mean that the fees of honest players are now being used to pay for the defence of potential drug cheats?

I thought too that one of the players' lawyers was posturing a while ago about having seen all of ASADA's evidence and not needing to read the brief. I wonder if this change of heart means that they've actually looked at the material now and are a bit worried by what they've seen.

[old dee 24,072]

OD you sure know how to rain on a mans parade.

I live in hope.

Sadly ManDee as time has gone on my faith in the Human Race has dropped.

While there are lots of great humans there is an equal number of poor examples.

Sorry to rain on your parade

[old dee 24,072]

I suspect they'll be on a fishing trip, looking for some evidence that was too inconsequential or irrelevant for ASADA to pursue but can now be used to suggest some sort of failure on ASADA's part detrimental to the players' interests. When one loophole closes, find another ... and they would seem to be more interested in loopholes than the truth.

The article linked in a post above suggests, though, that it's the AFLPA's lawyers who are trying this on. I thought it was Essendon that was supposed to be paying the players' way. For those more in the know, does the reference to the players' association's lawyers mean that the fees of honest players are now being used to pay for the defence of potential drug cheats?

I thought too that one of the players' lawyers was posturing a while ago about having seen all of ASADA's evidence and not needing to read the brief. I wonder if this change of heart means that they've actually looked at the material now and are a bit worried by what they've seen.

Dr the Players union is doing what any good union should do they are defending their members, I think this is only something they have realised in recent weeks.

Don't expect them to have any higher motif than that one.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

Dr the Players union is doing what any good union should do they are defending their members, I think this is only something they have realised in recent weeks.

Don't expect them to have any higher motif than that one.

I don't disagree on their right to defend their members, but usually the full membership of a union is entitled to a say in this sort of thing and I'm just wondering whether that occurred if indeed EFC are no longer paying the players' legal fees.

[ManDee 7,375]

Sadly ManDee as time has gone on my faith in the Human Race has dropped.

While there are lots of great humans there is an equal number of poor examples.

Sorry to rain on your parade

My personal view is that the 90/10 rule applies.

90% of people are decent and fair minded, 10% are cheating lying thieves & rogues (this includes the EFC)

The 10% are so bad it feels like they are more abundant. It may be that the bad 10% are simply getting worse.

No rain here in Mansfield and 90% of the people are fantastic.

[Willmoy1947 4,249]

This has got something to do with Charter's evidence and a sneaky plan.....

[old dee 24,072]

My personal view is that the 90/10 rule applies.

90% of people are decent and fair minded, 10% are cheating lying thieves & rogues (this includes the EFC)

The 10% are so bad it feels like they are more abundant. It may be that the bad 10% are simply getting worse.

No rain here in Mansfield and 90% of the people are fantastic.

The only thing we are liable to disagree on is the the mix

the good number is somewhat less than 90% how does 75% grab you?

[ManDee 7,375]

The only thing we are liable to disagree on is the the mix

the good number is somewhat less than 90% how does 75% grab you?

75% may be right around Essendon, I live in the high country, and 90% feels about right here.

Has anyone seen my magenta coloured glasses?

[old dee 24,072]

75% may be right around Essendon, I live in the high country, and 90% feels about right here.

Has anyone seen my magenta coloured glasses?

Keep them on when you hit the big smoke!

[Sir Why You Little 37,407]

Has anything actually happened yet?

[daisycutter 29,988]

Has anything actually happened yet?

come back in 6 months wyl - lol

[Sir Why You Little 37,407]

come back in 6 months wyl - lol

It's like the PFJ meetings on "Life of Brian"

C'mon Reg it's time to actually DO something....

[DemonFrog 1,359]

Sadly ManDee as time has gone on my faith in the Human Race has dropped.

While there are lots of great humans there is an equal number of poor examples.

Sorry to rain on your parade

Come to the Dark side OD

We will not disappoint you!

[ManDee 7,375]

Keep them on when you hit the big smoke!

Big smoke, no need to go there until April 4th, other wise that is why they created ring roads.

[Dees2014 2,377]

I've got this really sick feeling these bastards will walk away with a slap.

By all the gods man has ever prayed to I hope I'm wrong.

They won't. Even if the afl, federal government, ESSENDON, even ASADA want a light sentence (and all of then, with the possible exception of ASADA surely do), it won't happen. That is what WADA is for, ensuring the international drug laws are enforced everywhere where countries and organisations have signed up to their protocols. And they have on numerous occasions, and usually won by appealing the Court of Arbitration in Sport (CAS). Australia, and the AFL will be no different, except this is one of the few cases when the club concerned has blocked and obviscated the investigations every step of the way, which has surely ensured then a much higher sentence than they might otherwise have expected will be handed down.

I'm tipping life for Hird, and four year bans for the players. They are cooked, and deserve to be so.

I know everyone on here are impatient for this to happen. The bad news for them is this has a long long way to run. Sentences will be handed down, WADA will deem them inadequate, it will go to the CAS, they will re- open the cases, then over turn the AFL's light sentences, From here the only source of appeal is to the Federal Supreme Court of Switzerland (their equivalent of our High Court). In the few occasions this has happened they have nearly always been about procedural matters, and have never succeeded, but I'm sure this won't stop Hird's legal team from trying. It is a nice place Switzerland - I'm sure they would love a mid winter sojourn. I'm tipping this will not end until mid 2016.

Then there will be the Workcover investigation, which will result in severe criminal sanctions on the ESSENDON hierarchy including the board, which will in turn I have no doubt end up in the High Court of Australia..

Then there are the coming court cases stemming from various players legal actions against ESSENDON and the AFL. This will be as long as "Blue Hills" and twice as entertaining.

The only ones to benefit from this will be the lawyers, as always.

[biggestred 5,292]

Just turned on the international rules... cant watch it with those 2 drug cheats playing for aus.

[Whispering_Jack 31,341]

The only ones to benefit from this will be the lawyers, as always.

Perish the thought.

[biggestred 5,292]

Flicked over for 2 mins to hear about how dustin fletcher is a marvel and will be 2nd player only to play in his 40s and will reach 400 games in round 7.

Guy is a drug cheat.

And a dirty player. Serial tripper.

Any ban will end his career... a sad end? Nup. Filth.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Perish the thought.

Indeed!

[Qwerty30 196]

They won't. Even if the afl, federal government, ESSENDON, even ASADA want a light sentence (and all of then, with the possible exception of ASADA surely do), it won't happen. That is what WADA I or........

I'm tipping life for Hird, and four year bans for the players. They are cooked, and deserve to be so.

......

Then there will be the Workcover investigation, which will result in severe criminal sanctions on the ESSENDON hierarchy including the board, which will in turn I have no doubt end up in the High Court of Australia..

Then there are the coming court cases stemming from various players legal actions against ESSENDON and the AFL. This will be as long as "Blue Hills" and twice as entertaining.

The only ones to benefit from this will be the lawyers, as always.

I think you are getting over excited at the lights and sirens

If WADA are so zealous on upholding the law, why haven't they challenged the soft NRL player penalties. They were nothing more than a tap on the wrist.

And on what basis under the ASADA rules will Hird get "life"? If he gets life then surely Thompson and Reid must receive the same penalty. The only thing keeping Hird at Essendon now is his threat of a crippling legal action for "wrongful dismissal". The claim would be huge and the battle bitter and protracted. However if players are indeed banned then the pressure to exit Hird will be incredible. His battered reputation will be unsalvsgeable.

And the players get four year bans??? Yeah right..

And everyone is getting excited over the Workcover investigation. It's nearly 2 years since the news broke about events that are 3 years old. The premise of ASADAs onus proof is for officials/ players to prove that they DID NOT take banned substances. I would have thought the issue for Workcover is to prove that the players actually DID take banned substances. The best Workcover could come up with is that the lack of record keeping may allude to a unsafe work places but I don't believe the case is razor sharp and I don't believe serious criminal sanctions will apply at all. Nor will it get to the High Court. And why hasn't the NSW equivalent of Workcover gone after Cronulla? Well ummmm.....

I agree that whatever the actual outcomes there is a likelihood that there will be player actions against EFC and the AFL. However the naive duplicity of the players in this whole saga does not make their actions a sure winner.

Bu the only winner out of this.....will be the lawyers....sadly.

[Whispering_Jack 31,341]

And everyone is getting excited over the Workcover investigation. It's nearly 2 years since the news broke about events that are 3 years old. The premise of ASADAs onus proof is for officials/ players to prove that they DID NOT take banned substances. I would have thought the issue for Workcover is to prove that the players actually DID take banned substances. The best Workcover could come up with is that the lack of record keeping may allude to a unsafe work places but I don't believe the case is razor sharp and I don't believe serious criminal sanctions will apply at all. Nor will it get to the High Court.

It's Worksafe, not Workcover and its task is not to prove that the players DID take banned substances, only as to whether the club breached its duty of care to its players. Here are the relevant provisions:

"Primary duty of care

19 Primary duty of care

(1) A person conducting a business or undertaking must ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health and safety of—

(a) workers engaged, or caused to be engaged, by the person; and

(b) workers whose activities in carrying out work are influenced or directed by the person,

while the workers are at work in the business or undertaking.

(2) A person conducting a business or undertaking must ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that the health and safety of other persons is not put at risk from work carried out as part of the conduct of the business or undertaking.

(3) Without limiting subsections (1) and (2), a person conducting a business or undertaking must ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable—

(a) the provision and maintenance of a work environment without risks to health and safety; and

(b) the provision and maintenance of safe plant and structures; and

© the provision and maintenance of safe systems of work; and

(d) the safe use, handling, storage and transport of plant, structures and substances; and

(e) the provision of adequate facilities for the welfare at work of workers in carrying out work for the business or undertaking, including ensuring access to those facilities; and

(f) the provision of any information, training, instruction or supervision that is necessary to protect all persons from risks to their health and safety arising from work carried out as part of the conduct of the business or undertaking; and

(g) that the health of workers and the conditions at the workplace are monitored for the purpose of preventing illness or injury of workers arising from the conduct of the business or undertaking."

Worksafe is sitting in the background waiting on the outcome of the ASADA investigation. The likely outcome if Essendon is found to have breached its DOC to the players is a hefty fine (no gaol term).

I don't know what the NSW equivalent has done in the case of NRL but my understanding is that the Cronulla programme was short lived and stopped as soon as the club doctor found out. The NRL, Cronulla and the players cooperated fully with the Investigation and negotiated a settlement without the need for a hearing and as a consequence, WADA decided not to appeal to CAS although it was not completely happy with the outcome.

Agreed, that in Essendon's case the penalties to the players, if found to have breached the code, are unlikely to be the maximum two years but they could result in some severe sanctions against people like Dank and any coaches and officials involved.

[Whispering_Jack 31,341]

A closer look at "that" evidence! (source B/FOOTY)

Vial is too fat, the thumb is too long . . thumbnail?

The photo has been widened in the middle by widening a vertical strip of the "original" photo".

The characters MO have been added, and also com/gen.

It looks like the numbers may have been changed.

The photo is not a photo of another photo. The creases mask the photoshop work

.

The question is who did this and why did they think it would fly?

Strange that Essendon is able to produce what appears to be a photograph of a photograph of something labeled Thymomodulin but it has absolutely no record of what was actually ingested by the players over a long period of time during which these substances were injected into the players.

And the people who report on this garbage get journalism awards?

Really?