"There's a strong argument," Gil McLachlan on a Priority Pick.

[pantaloons 2,019]

I'm happy with the AFL scrapping priority picks once and for all, but if they're still going to be handing them out then we should be at the front of the queue this year.

[Machsy 2,858]

I don't like the idea of a pick that must be on-traded.

Generally teams are reluctant to deal a player unless there is a reason to move him on, but are much more willing to give up an as yet nameless and faceless draft pick.

It's simply difficult to get reasonable value when dealing for established players.

If all we get are draft picks in return, or draft picks & rodan-type players, what is the point?

Just give us a mid-1st round pick, I say.

Or pick 1. I won't complain.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

It can raise as many eyebrows as you like but it's not about one game. it's about consistent poor performance. We are in position to get a PP and if the dogs stay down for a few more years they will be in position for a PP then.

We were also robbed of top draft picks in 2010 and 2011 where we should have had pick 5 in both years and finished up with pick 12. Now, I doubt we would have traded pick 5 for Clark but we certainly wouldn't have wasted pick 5 on Lucas Cook.

If we get a priority pick it will be for consistently poor performance and it will be used to do exactly what it was designed to do; help out a struggling club.

The Bulldogs finished 15th last year and 10th in 2011, but prior to that they finished 4th in 2010, 3rd in 2009 and 3rd in 2008 not exactly struggling there.

They had the opportunity to top up, but we only had the opportunity to rebuild a side from as poor base.

The members of the Melbourne Football club haven't caused this problem it's been poor administration and coaching but we are the ones who suffer; I know we elect the Board but when there are no alternatives, how can you choose who you want?

As much as it may go against the perception of the stereotypical Melbourne Supporter we are among the most loyal group in the competition; I looked around at the crowd last Sunday and there was as much passion there as there is in any other group of supporters yet we get kicked by every journalist and the rest of the media. They want us to fail and that's why they don't want us to get any assistance from the AFL, priority pick or otherwise.

[rjay 24,928]

I like the idea of The AFL granting a PP at pick no 4 or 5 that must be traded on for an experienced player. What we need is an experienced quality mid to go with Sheed, or Dunstan, or Aish, etc.

I'm not sure why people think there are experienced quality mids ready to be traded. Who are they? where are they? Free agents are a different bag.

The last quality mid that moved (apart from the GC & GWS steals) as far as I remember was Judd, some 2nd stringers like Kennedy became 'A' graders but you most certainly wouldn't have traded a top pick for him at the time.

Under the conditions (that we know of) of getting a PP I believe we would qualify well and truly and no matter what any other club or their mouthpiece jounos say it should be at the top end of the draft. We are competing with GWS & GC to get back on top and they have been given an enormous bump by the AFL, we need to get the best we can.

Adding Kelly and Sheed or Scharenburg to the club with Hogan, Viney and Toumpas will at least give as a chance to compete otherwise we will always be making up the numbers.

Wake up demonland this is absolutely vital for us becoming a final 8 participant or a contender.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Really don't see what all of the fuss is about. Priority picks and bonuses? I'm more more interested in the players on our list sticking together and saying "it's up to us to change and make us a stronger club". I'd rather see us improve with viney, toumpas, Kent and jones another preseason, Evans, nicho, trengove, grimes, terlich, tommy mac, blease, Strauss and watts all keep naturally improving by playing games together and with the addition of pick 2 (or 3,4) pick 20ish and a big chase of dale Thomas or Taylor Adams, we could improve a lot quicker than everyone thinks.

If buddy franklin joins up with gws, which would most likely put them out of the running for Tom Boyd, what are everyone's thoughts on trading say, our pick 2 to Carlton for yarran or Lucas and their pick 7ish, or st kilda for their pick 5ish and maybe a 2year deal for montagna or dal santo. I only mention this as IF gws would overlook Boyd, they would jump for the chance to get him.

You would seriously consider pick 2 in the draft for Kane Lucas?

[Fat Tony 5,231]

While I understand the reasons for of other clubs’ self interest, any equalisation measure to the Melbourne Football Club excluding priority pick #1 would be window dressing and a disappointment in my eyes. Not including our wins against the expansion clubs, we have won only two games in the last season and a half – both by a goal or less. Our percentage so far this year is 54%. Our record over the last seven years has also been dismal, with yearly wins ranging between 3 and 8.5 since 2007. (Furthermore, our success as measured by wins/losses has been inflated by soft fixtures, particularly in recent years.) If the tanking issue did not resurface again last year there would be little doubt of receiving a priority pick #1 based on the secret formula. As we have been cleared of tanking by the AFL (but fined for poor corporate governance) I don’t see how this can be a deciding factor.

Since the priority pick system was first changed, the gap between the top and bottom teams has become more uneven. This can be seen by looking at the trend in the difference in both games won and in the percentage differential between the top and bottom sides. It can also be seen in the betting markets, with more favourites are starting games at $1.01 than ever before. This unevenness poses a real risk for two key pillars of the competition – being the draft and the salary cap. (This is particularly so given the recent adoption of free agency.) These aspects of the competition could be challenged in the courts as restraint of trade and could result in a situation akin to John Elway/Baltimore Colts in the NFL. An uneven competition also reduces interest, which will impact revenues and TV rights.

The argument that our plight is self inflicted is also extremely weak. Of course we have made mistakes in the recent past, but it is the same with every club at the bottom of the ladder and no club would willingly go through what we have for draft picks. Moreover, it needs to be remembered that mistakes are not made by clubs – but by the individuals who are in charge of those clubs at the time. Demon fans are suffering because of the mistakes of Stynes, Schwab, McLardy, Bailey, Neeld, Prendegast and Cameron, all of whom have now departed the club. It is the loyal supporters, who continue to put their hands in their pockets that are left suffering for the mistakes.

I doubt that the AFL is naive enough to think that financial support is the sole answer to our problem. The Melbourne Football Club will continue to be an impediment to the league and our support will dwindle if we don’t start winning soon. IMO we should be given priority picks both #1 and at the end of the first round.

Longer term, I think that a better system needs to be put in place to create a level playing field. The best structure would be to give incremental additional salary cap space to clubs based on ladder positions in the previous year. This is the most important equalisation measure in an age of free agency. The draft should also be revamped so that each club outside the Final 8 has two picks before the finalists, but with a weighted lottery system that favours clubs with fewer wins/lower percentage. This would ensure that pick 1 is not guaranteed to the bottom club. These measures should be put in place with the aim that there is equal chance of each club winning the premiership in three years time, but not guaranteed to so as to reduce the incentive to lose matches.

I also think that poor and recently unsuccessful clubs like the Bulldogs, St Kilda, Brisbane and Port are making an error of judgement in campaigning against a MFC priority pick. If the AFL does not give us a priority pick there will be a precedent set and these clubs are doing themselves out of a chance at a priority pick if they continue to be unsuccessful. There is probably a greater cost in this than the cost of any dilution in this year’s draft.

For the record, I put our chance at a priority pick #1 at 75%.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Fat Tony

[Dee Fan 3,247]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/port-adelaide-and-crows-disapprove-of-possible-priority-pick-for-dismal-demons/story-fni5f4l8-1226673955378#

Pretty obvious all the 17 other clubs have called each other up and said 'lets make sure we tell the media that the Demons should not get a PP, if we all show how we much disapprove of it then theres no way they will get it."

But i agree with them totally. No more compromised drafts please.

I wonder if they have budgeted for the [censored] crowds they will attract to home games they play against a non competitive Melbourne team. At the moment there are few Melbourne supporters that will venture to away games and probably few home crowd supporters that will want to watch their side thrash Melbourne.

[Generation dee 1,336]

You would seriously consider pick 2 in the draft for Kane Lucas?

Did you read all my post robbie? I said our pick 2 goes to Carlton, and their pick 6 or 8 or whatever that pick is, plus Chris yarran or Kane Lucas came to us.

[rpfc 28,430]

Option A - ND1: Priority Pick before the draft.

Option B - ND11 and ND20: Mid-1st round and end of round picks.

Option C - ND11 and ND20 Trade Tied: Mid-1st round and end of round picks, one or both must be traded out. AFL can ratify use of picks should suitable trade not appear.

Option D - ND11 and 2-player State League Exception: Mid- 1st round pick and pre-draft selection of 2 players in any State league.

If I was Jackson I would fight for each option until rebuffed and not accept anything below Option D.

If I was the AFL I would leak Option A as a possibility and then give Option B.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Whatever we get we better make 100% use of it for we will never revisit this scenario again. This is our last leg up. it may well be someone else's turn next time.

I actually like Reds idea of just giving us a queue jumping first pick and nothing else. Only really effects GWS. ( and not much )

All else essentially the same. I like a mini draft but am starting to wonder the design of it and how it would work. If like previous then its real value is beholding upon who is tradable for a pick. In fact any scenario suggesting a pick is tied to a trade has its real value established by the 'filed of possible talent WANTING to move " Any ideas that this club or that club will automatically hand over anyone (or combo ) for a pick etc is really just fanciful.

But in thinking about the #1 pick option its possible then that the AFL would come under massive fire for draft tampering by the other 17 clubs. In some ways the easier option is simply a PP as the precedent is there.

Not that I have a headache from all of this but its particularly murky waters here lol

[rjay 24,928]

Whatever we get we better make 100% use of it for we will never revisit this scenario again. This is our last leg up. it may well be someone else's turn next time.

I actually like Reds idea of just giving us a queue jumping first pick and nothing else. Only really effects GWS. ( and not much )

All else essentially the same. I like a mini draft but am starting to wonder the design of it and how it would work. If like previous then its real value is beholding upon who is tradable for a pick. In fact any scenario suggesting a pick is tied to a trade has its real value established by the 'filed of possible talent WANTING to move " Any ideas that this club or that club will automatically hand over anyone (or combo ) for a pick etc is really just fanciful.

But in thinking about the #1 pick option its possible then that the AFL would come under massive fire for draft tampering by the other 17 clubs. In some ways the easier option is simply a PP as the precedent is there.

Not that I have a headache from all of this but its particularly murky waters here lol

We may well have that pick anyway, but even if we don't it really doesn't give us much to jump up one pick in the draft order, no we need 2 picks at the top end of the draft.

[Generation dee 1,336]

Option A - ND1: Priority Pick before the draft.

Option B - ND11 and ND20: Mid-1st round and end of round picks.

Option C - ND11 and ND20 Trade Tied: Mid-1st round and end of round picks, one or both must be traded out. AFL can ratify use of picks should suitable trade not appear.

Option D - ND11 and 2-player State League Exception: Mid- 1st round pick and pre-draft selection of 2 players in any State league.

If I was Jackson I would fight for each option until rebuffed and not accept anything below Option D.

If I was the AFL I would leak Option A as a possibility and then give Option B.

I like it rpfc, but again I really find it difficult to see a player from an opposition club who we could trade in. Bernie vince may be one, Jesse stringer, Taylor Adams or maybe Craig bird but I doubt he would leave. None of these players are going to win games for us off their own boot, however they will add to our current midfield.

I'm of the opinion that we need one and it was top 10, but I also rather that we were in a position where we didn't need it and tapscott, nicho, bail, Strauss, blease and trengove all develop strongly over the last part of the season.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Did you read all my post robbie? I said our pick 2 goes to Carlton, and their pick 6 or 8 or whatever that pick is, plus Chris yarran or Kane Lucas came to us.

Wouldn't be in the slightest bit interested in Kane Lucas and I would see that as a straight downgrade of our pick two for pick whatever. As someone else mentioned Yarran seems to have a few issues so I wouldn't want him either.

[jazza 1,323]

picks 1_14

quality picks nothing less

[deanox 9,920]

I like fat Tonys idea of extra picks for all bottom sides, although I'd suggest that the extra picks should be at the start of the second round not before the finals teams get any suggestion.

First Round as normal (all clubs get picks)

Second round non finalist priority picks

Second round of normal

That way all clubs get access to elite talent but let placed clubs get a chance to bolster their tasks with good players allowing then to turn their lists over quickly. Bouton clubs can turn over quick, top clubs don't get assistance and Middle clubs will have the opportunity without to much reward. It will also increase the value of the second round priority picks to rip clubs which may promote player trading ie experienced player for pick 20 sends not bad when your current picks are 18 and 46.

I think the biggest problem is the talent pool isn't big enough for the number of clubs drafting. 18 teams getting first round picks mean that even sine first round picks are no longer the best young players in the land.

[Fat Tony 5,231]

I like fat Tonys idea of extra picks for all bottom sides, although I'd suggest that the extra picks should be at the start of the second round not before the finals teams get any suggestion.

First Round as normal (all clubs get picks)

Second round non finalist priority picks

Second round of normal

That way all clubs get access to elite talent but let placed clubs get a chance to bolster their tasks with good players allowing then to turn their lists over quickly. Bouton clubs can turn over quick, top clubs don't get assistance and Middle clubs will have the opportunity without to much reward. It will also increase the value of the second round priority picks to rip clubs which may promote player trading ie experienced player for pick 20 sends not bad when your current picks are 18 and 46.

I think the biggest problem is the talent pool isn't big enough for the number of clubs drafting. 18 teams getting first round picks mean that even sine first round picks are no longer the best young players in the land.

Second round priority picks would not be enough to even up the competition. The reasons why they are that it is too hard to predict the best future footballers when they are 18 years old with any real certainty and the limited impact that one player can have on a game of football. Using Supercoach averages as a guide, Garry Ablett is worth about two players on the field, which is not highly significant given there are 17 other players on the field. This is why draft picks are less important in AFL than basketball or NFL (where position is more relevant).

[old dee 23,791]

I like it rpfc, but again I really find it difficult to see a player from an opposition club who we could trade in. Bernie vince may be one, Jesse stringer, Taylor Adams or maybe Craig bird but I doubt he would leave. None of these players are going to win games for us off their own boot, however they will add to our current midfield.

I'm of the opinion that we need one and it was top 10, but I also rather that we were in a position where we didn't need it and tapscott, nicho, bail, Strauss, blease and trengove all develop strongly over the last part of the season.

It never hurts to dream Gd

Just make sure you don't wake in fright

[deanox 9,920]

Second round priority picks would not be enough to even up the competition. The reasons why they are that it is too hard to predict the best future footballers when they are 18 years old with any real certainty and the limited impact that one player can have on a game of football. ...

one second round pick won't but if that was the rules every year, over 8 years a bottom club would receive 16 top 30 picks and 24 top 40 picks. A to club would receive 8 top 30 picks and 16 top 50 picks.

It would facilitate the cycle of up and down between clubs with time, no quick fixes, no big bonuses, but a small benefit each year. To clubs still get access to elite talent to bring in to their team.

A single top pick bonus doesn't bring teams up immediately and didn't help turn over players.

[rpfc 28,430]

one second round pick won't but if that was the rules every year, over 8 years a bottom club would receive 16 top 30 picks and 24 top 40 picks. A to club would receive 8 top 30 picks and 16 top 50 picks.

It would facilitate the cycle of up and down between clubs with time, no quick fixes, no big bonuses, but a small benefit each year. To clubs still get access to elite talent to bring in to their team.

A single top pick bonus doesn't bring teams up immediately and didn't help turn over players.

No but two picks in the top 20 can allow a team to draft in Clark and Dawes. That can change fortunes quickly.

There may be midfielders of a similar ilk that we can get.

[Generation dee 1,336]

It never hurts to dream Gd

Just make sure you don't wake in fright

When I hear the following from a commentator, I'll know to pinch myself-

"Beautiful kick by Nicholson into centre half forward"

"Tapscott picking up a lot of footy across half forward and really getting involved in field play"

"Strauss really physical in that last contest with kurt tippet"

"Jordie Mckenzie really spreading well today, becoming that link up player through the centre of the ground and really penetrating with his disposal inside 50"

I jest old dee, but wouldn't it be great!

[deanox 9,920]

No but two picks in the top 20 can allow a team to draft in Clark and Dawes. That can change fortunes quickly.

There may be midfielders of a similar ilk that we can get.

If we can land free agent midfielder who will be a walk up start to our best muddied (daisy Thomas is injured but is also probably best available)

If we can land another midfielder who will shot in (I still like Taylor Adams for pick 20ish)

And we can then use or first round pick on a young gun mid to go with Viney and Toumpas

We could see marked improvement next year and serious improvement in 2015 when you consider we have the kpp's already in place.

But I think it's important we bring players in who will be in or best 22 through both trade and FA.

[Fat Tony 5,231]

one second round pick won't but if that was the rules every year, over 8 years a bottom club would receive 16 top 30 picks and 24 top 40 picks. A to club would receive 8 top 30 picks and 16 top 50 picks.

It would facilitate the cycle of up and down between clubs with time, no quick fixes, no big bonuses, but a small benefit each year. To clubs still get access to elite talent to bring in to their team.

A single top pick bonus doesn't bring teams up immediately and didn't help turn over players.

I see your point, but I would prefer the cycle to be much faster. It will take us a decade to become competitive again and that is too long. If our recent history becomes the norm, players who luck out in the draft (like James Frawley) will have no chance of success at the club they are drafted to.

[mjt 640]

No but two picks in the top 20 can allow a team to draft in Clark and Dawes. That can change fortunes quickly.

There may be midfielders of a similar ilk that we can get.

Thats correct, i would be happy with pick 2, 19 and 20, swap the latter for 2 established players.

[deanox 9,920]

I see your point, but I would prefer the cycle to be much faster. It will take us a decade to become competitive again and that is too long. If our recent history becomes the norm, players who luck out in the draft (like James Frawley) will have no chance of success at the club they are drafted to.

sorry FT I'm not suggesting this as a Austen to fix is in suggesting this as a long term solution for the afl.

Regarding cycling faster than 8 or 10 years normally, that won't happen because it's takes 3 to 5 years to get development then similar time at the top before dropping off.

If you are talking about us in this cycle, we are already half way through this cycle we just aren't performing. We have all the kpp's but no miss to drive us, or list is skewed with talent all over 190 cm tall.

[Generation dee 1,336]

No but two picks in the top 20 can allow a team to draft in Clark and Dawes. That can change fortunes quickly.

There may be midfielders of a similar ilk that we can get.

Bernie vince, Daniel cross, Levi greenwood or Jesse stringer are about the top midfielders attainable by trading I think. Throw in Adams, dale Thomas and that's about the most available talent there is.

Or dayle garlett.