Queens Birthday Clash

[Sir Why You Little 34,657]

.. actually they do, they started last year repairing the recent damage thats been done to the club over the last 10 years.

even if you don't like it WYL. they are on the right track. so keep your money & your hands in your pocket, & let the people who know footy, fix it.

you don't even recognise when the hard work has begun, stripping back the rot. so stepping backwards to fix things is too much for you... sorry mate but one day you'll catch on.

the AFL are now onboard & with PJ & other profiled MFC supporters coming in to help, we need some positivity going forward, & less bleating from those with their tails pointing into the wind.

employ a recognized September Coach and i will believe you.

[dee-luded 2,958]

The easiest fix is to refurbish Princess Park. Build a decent sized carpark or fix up the existing car parking arrangements. Forget about how non Carlton games were played there in the past. A new deal involving all the relevent parties could be arranged. Open the ground up for all the low drawing fixtures and make sure all the participating home teams all make good cash out of it.

Kardinia Park has merit too. Geelong will want more games down there to help pay off the cost of the new stands. As it is, the ground is only used 6 or 7 times a year. Might seem odd us playing there but the Cats play home games at our ground (and at Docklands) Might be a better fit for North or the Bulldogs but if the Cats were confident about making 500-600k out of these type of games, then offers may be made.

Macca, all you'll do is make another Super Power in Melbourne, to match the Pies & the Bombers...

this only widens the Gap between the Haves & the Haven'ts...

If you have one boutique at Geelong, geographically it makes sense to have another way out Sth-East... & one other boutique inner Melbourne.. but lets help the Doggies & Roos & not feather the Blue Birds nest...

[Yossarian 1,808]

What does this mean?

I would love to get all indignant, wyl.

But...

Valiant effort rpfc. Conversations like this remind me why I keep WYL blocked. Makes so little sense, it's almost scary.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Yossarian

[dee-luded 2,958]

we won the U19's DL. i do know what they did.

But do not underestimate Swooper either. He was a T Shirt Tom student.

geez WYL you;ve got No Idea... U -19's premiership... is that all you've got.

wow, there is So much more to repairing a club back into a healthy one, than shows on a footy ladder. the ladder results come last after much hard work.

[monoccular 16,260]

WYL I like the passion, but good luck. The G is killing us, we just don't have the numbers.

We don't have the numbers because we don't have the success, or the (kill me for saying this) competitiveness.

IF we can get those things back and play attractive footy with a reasonable chance of success then we will get some crowds.

[Macca 16,173]

Macca, all you'll do is make another Super Power in Melbourne, to match the Pies & the Bombers...

this only widens the Gap between the Haves & the Haven'ts...

If you have one boutique at Geelong, geographically it makes sense to have another way out Sth-East... & one other boutique inner Melbourne.. but lets help the Doggies & Roos & not feather the Blue Birds nest...

The deal with Princes Park I had in mind didn't necessarily feather Carlton's nest (like previous deals) A new deal could be struck where everyone wins. If it's not a fair deal, you don't do the deal. Obviously the Blues have to get some benefit, but it doesn't have to be one-sided. Talks could be had between all relevent parties before anything is settled.

As for a boutique stadium at Casey, unless the AFL are behind the push, I can't see it happening. Reckon the AFL are far more interested in fast tracking the Docklands ownership.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Macca

[Fat Tony 4,465]

The cost to develop Casey makes it economically unviable. I also doubt a partial move would have a significant impact in attracting any real support for the MFC and there would be no benefit in attracting people to the code. People are more inclined to support the teams of their families or who is winning, not where they live. Whilst I can see why comparisons with Geelong are made, it should be remembered that Geelong FC began 100 years before TV and 50 years before cars. The truth is that we won’t attract supporters unless we start winning.

The AFL either needs to support us out of the MCG or (if we remain a basket case on the field) IMO they will look to merge us with GWS or GCS just like they did Brisbane and Fitzroy.

[Sir Why You Little 34,657]

Valiant effort rpfc. Conversations like this remind me why I keep WYL blocked. Makes so little sense, it's almost scary.

have a lovely day.

Spending a fortune at Casey fields will not happen.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,525]

The thing is, regardless of how it might affect our finances there is slim to none chance of any third boutique stadium in Melbourne until the AFL owns Docklands. The AFL has contracts in place with MCG and Docklands requiring a minimum amount of games each year, this is the reason they knocked back the Kangaroos inquiry to play games out of Geelong. My comment earlier about playing games at Geelong was a bit tongue in cheek just stating that living in the north-west suburbs it would take me an hour to get to Geelong but 90 minutes+ to get out to Casey - I'd prefer to play at the MCG though and even Docklands would be preferable (for me personally) to playing out at Casey.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,525]

I also think the thing about crowds is a bit of a furphy - yes our crowds are poor at the moment because the team has been poor for years. Hawthorns crowds were poor in Clarksons first year as well (remember the low turnout against Port, think it was 12K?) Start winning and things will turn. We got 35K against Brisbane in 2010. Our average home crowds in 2004 were higher than Carlton, Hawthorn, Geelong (probably artificially lower due to KP). In 2005 we sat 5th for average home crowds behind Essendon, Adelaide, Collingwood and WCE. In 2006 our average home crowds were still above Carlton, Hawthorn and Geelong. Even in 2010 our average home crowds were above Adelaide, WCE, Freo and only a hundred behind Richmond and a couple of hundred behind Hawthorn (artificial due to Tassie) and St. Kilda.

What does this all say? Start winning and things will start to sort themselves out.

Nb. As a side note, didn't sign a new deal with the MCC/MCG a couple of years back so that we make $100K at each home game?

Stats courtesy of Footywire

[dee-luded 2,958]

The deal with Princess Park I had in mind didn't necessarily feather Carlton's nest (like previous deals) A new deal could be struck where everyone wins. If it's not a fair deal, you don't do the deal. Obviously the Blues have to get some benefit, but it doesn't have to be one-sided. Talks could be had between all relevent parties before anything is settled.

As for a boutique stadium at Casey, unless the AFL are behind the push, I can't see it happening. Reckon the AFL are far more interested in fast tracking the Docklands ownership.

Why princes park, just because its there. yes it has stands. but no rail to the door & is a pain in the Rrse of a place.

On the rail lines that traverse the Geelong-Warnambool, Ballarat/Arrarat/Adelaide, & Bendigo/SwanHill/Echuca, & the Craigieburn & Upfield lines all pass thru Nth-Melbourne station... so for the long term, building an inner Boutique stadium would to me make more sense at E-gate & the land is there, waiting.

Yes the AFL will inherit Etihad in a few years, & maybe that will be the time to build the new stadium, then sell off the land under Etihad for re development.

Or build a boutique stadium out Sth-East first, prior to redeveloping Etihad.

[dee-luded 2,958]

The cost to develop Casey makes it economically unviable. I also doubt a partial move would have a significant impact in attracting any real support for the MFC and there would be no benefit in attracting people to the code. People are more inclined to support the teams of their families or who is winning, not where they live. Whilst I can see why comparisons with Geelong are made, it should be remembered that Geelong FC began 100 years before TV and 50 years before cars. The truth is that we won’t attract supporters unless we start winning.

The AFL either needs to support us out of the MCG or (if we remain a basket case on the field) IMO they will look to merge us with GWS or GCS just like they did Brisbane and Fitzroy.

It would never be with GWS or GCSuns.

If it ever happened, it would be with the Roos or Doggies.

[Macca 16,173]

Why princes park, just because its there. yes it has stands. but no rail to the door & is a pain in the Rrse of a place.

On the rail lines that traverse the Geelong-Warnambool, Ballarat/Arrarat/Adelaide, & Bendigo/SwanHill/Echuca, & the Craigieburn & Upfield lines all pass thru Nth-Melbourne station... so for the long term, building an inner Boutique stadium would to me make more sense at E-gate & the land is there, waiting.

Yes the AFL will inherit Etihad in a few years, & maybe that will be the time to build the new stadium, then sell off the land under Etihad for re development.

Or build a boutique stadium out Sth-East first, prior to redeveloping Etihad.

You may be remembering Princes Park when we had to play a game or 2 there as part of whatever deal was in place at the time. We weren't receiving any extra money for playing there and most of us just wanted our team to play our home games at the MCG. It's was similar to the Docklands 'home' games we have now (1 against North this season). A lot of Demon fans hate having to go to Docklands when it's our home game.

But what if the club was receiving a decent amount of cash for playing a few home games at another venue? I agree it needs to be a substantial amount but that's the whole point. The Hawks have set the benchmark for selling off low drawing home fixtures. And they have quite a large membership base in Victoria. The money they get from Tassie is quite a lot when you consider how much they would make if they had to play these same games at the MCG or Docklands.

Our issue is a 'right now' issue. Reckon Jackson will be looking at all our income streams and he'd be looking to bring extra revenues to the club. He would no doubt be looking at the returns we get from playing interstate teams at the MCG. Especially those returns we get from home games against GWS,GCS, Port and Freo.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Macca

[dee-luded 2,958]

The deal with Princess Park I had in mind didn't necessarily feather Carlton's nest (like previous deals) A new deal could be struck where everyone wins. If it's not a fair deal, you don't do the deal. Obviously the Blues have to get some benefit, but it doesn't have to be one-sided. Talks could be had between all relevent parties before anything is settled.

As for a boutique stadium at Casey, unless the AFL are behind the push, I can't see it happening. Reckon the AFL are far more interested in fast tracking the Docklands ownership.

I don't think they should buy Etihad when they'll inherit it for free.

IMO the State Government would have to - should help fund a boutique stadium out Sth East...

It would bring a symmetry to Australian Footy in Victoria, servicing a wide expanse of the State. The only problem with Casey Fields is its not directly adjacent to the East Gippsland rail line.

IMO a preferable site for a Boutique Stadium would be just adjacent to the Dandenong Trash & Treasure site, right on the Rail line to Bairnsdale & the Cranbourne lines, & surrounded by connecting freeways & arterial roads.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=Dandenong+Trash+%26+Treasure&fb=1&gl=au&hq=Trash+%26+Treasure&hnear=0x6ad613fe1cf71e9f:0x5045675218cdf80,Dandenong+VIC&cid=0,0,11145560721310790811&sa=X&ei=TmG4UZSwEI2plQWLy4CAAg&ved=0CIABEPwSMAI

Actually I think its an Aus Post site...

* or failing that the Dandenong Footy ground.

[Hero1 74]

it's not about whether we 'deserve' it or not. We didn't 'earn' Queen's Birthday originally, and its existence is not about whether Melbourne or Collingwood 'deserve' it.

It's a fixture with its roots in history.

If the AFL wants to change it up because Melbourne's underperforming, then consistency would dictate that when Collingwood/Essendon have a bad year, they don't get ANZAC Day. When Carlton is crap, they shouldn't get two games a year against Collingwood.

The AFL shafts Melbourne already with its fixturing. Leaving QBD for us is no real problem to anyone, and I guarantee you that the AFL is more interested in increasing the number of blockbusters than maintaining the number and rotating clubs through them.

[Hero1 74]

What history? One big game in 1958 and lots of rubbish games since 2001. This club is rooted. Forget roots in history.

[rpfc 27,572]

So play at Geelong. The stadiums already there, do you propose MFC spend the $100M it will take to build an AFL ready stadium at Casey? It's a pipe dream hardly worth discussing let alone getting all riled up about.

Thanks for that.

Where would we be if there weren't people to point out the obvious of how difficult things are difficult to achieve.

I am plenty patronising so I can deal with the above - I am not saying it is anything more than what will allow this club to thrive.

No you simply say it is $100m on our bill and that's that.

Well, I know the club has had a feasibility study done and would love to know what the actual roadblocks are. If nothing more than to give my 'pipedream' some context.

And I have always said that if I was running AFL footy - I wouldn't worry about a stadium in Casey.

But I care about the MFC - and it would serve the club well. We are trying to win over this area, we also need to play low-drawing games somewhere.

This would be ideal.

[Macca 16,173]

I don't think they should buy Etihad when they'll inherit it for free.

IMO the State Government would have to - should help fund a boutique stadium out Sth East...

It would bring a symmetry to Australian Footy in Victoria, servicing a wide expanse of the State. The only problem with Casey Fields is its not directly adjacent to the East Gippsland rail line.

IMO a preferable site for a Boutique Stadium would be just adjacent to the Dandenong Trash & Treasure site, right on the Rail line to Bairnsdale & the Cranbourne lines, & surrounded by connecting freeways & arterial roads.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=Dandenong+Trash+%26+Treasure&fb=1&gl=au&hq=Trash+%26+Treasure&hnear=0x6ad613fe1cf71e9f:0x5045675218cdf80,Dandenong+VIC&cid=0,0,11145560721310790811&sa=X&ei=TmG4UZSwEI2plQWLy4CAAg&ved=0CIABEPwSMAI

Actually I think its an Aus Post site...

* or failing that the Dandenong Footy ground.

It may be in the AFL's best interest to buy Docklands now. Especially if the return eventually far outweighs the outlay. Is it 2025 or 2030 when the changeover happens?

If they're going to have a 3rd stadium, they could give Princes Park a do-over and get deals done so that everyone wins. Just can't see a stadium in the South East when we've got a perfectly good stadium laying dormant (though it does need a fair bit of money spent on it)

Here's a scenario ...

The AFL works in conjunction with Carlton and the other relevant bodies to get Princes park up to AFL standard. However, the proviso is that if the AFL spend money on the ground, they will determine the fixturing and the relevant returns to the 'home' teams and Carlton.

It can be a 'take it or leave it' deal. If Carlton want extra revenue from other games played at their ground, it wouldn't necessarily be on their terms. However, the Blues could still make enough to go ahead with the deal.

Win/win.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Macca

[Biffen 12,370]

Screw Cranbourne or Berwick or that whole Eastern slum.

I'm not going there ever.

I propose we set up a big hydro scheme and sell grams to kids at games until we can afford to buy the Lakeside oval and put in a sexy grandstand/bar .

The soccer can screw itself also.

Pointless thinking about the East.

It's dead and it sux bigtime.

Only churchies and teachers live there.

[dee-luded 2,958]

You may be remembering Princess Park when we had to play a game or 2 there as part of whatever deal was in place at the time. We weren't receiving any extra money for playing there and most of us just wanted our team to play our home games at the MCG. It's was similar to the Docklands 'home' games we have now (1 against North this season). A lot of Demon fans hate having to go to Docklands when it's our home game.

But what if the club was receiving a decent amount of cash for playing a few home games at another venue? I agree it needs to be a substantial amount but that's the whole point. The Hawks have set the benchmark for selling off low drawing home fixtures. And they have quite a large membership base in Victoria. The money they get from Tassie is quite a lot when you consider how much they would make if they had to play these same games at the MCG or Docklands.

Our issue is a 'right now' issue. Reckon Jackson will be looking at all our income streams and he'd be looking to bring extra revenues to the club. He would no doubt be looking at the returns we get from playing interstate teams at the MCG. Especially those returns we get from home games against GWS,GCS, Port and Freo.

well we're playing some games in Darwin for sponsorship... & to create a niche market.

Princes Park, wild horses wouldn't drag me there.

I'm all for us making good & for the AFL to successfully spread.

Honestly for a boutique stadium to be built, it should be to service that whole part of the state its in, & so a boutique stadium should be on the Gippsland Rail Line, & adjacent to the Freeways.

So along that route there is Sandown, then Noble Park, then Dandenong, & then out to Hallam or Berwick. but that is getting too far away for the Peninsular people. so IMO, Dandenong is central to the area.

[dee-luded 2,958]

It may be in the AFL's best interest to buy Docklands now. Especially if the returns eventually far outweigh the outlay now. Is it 2025 or 2030 when the changeover happens?

If they're going to have a 3rd stadium, they could give Princess Park a do-over and get deals done so that everyone wins. Just can't see a stadium in the South East when we've got a perfectly good stadium laying dormant (though it does need a fair bit of money spent on it)

Here's a scenario ...

The AFL works in conjunction with Carlton and the other relevant bodies to get the ground up to AFL standard. However, the proviso is that if the AFL spend money on the ground, they will determine the fixturing and the relevant returns to the 'home' teams and Carlton.

It can be a 'take it or leave it' deal. If Carlton want extra revenue from other games played at their ground, it wouldn't necessarily be on their terms. However, the Blues could still make enough to go ahead with the deal.

Win/win.

No matter what they do to 'princes', it still does not have the key feature, of the rail routes linked to the ground. nothing can fix that.

Its easier to build from scratch in a better location than waste money on an old stadium in a poor location. great for people in fitzroy or brunswick, but crap for people traveling distances from Ballarat or Bendigo, Adelaide, etc.

so for a Government backed AFL stadium, it should be around Nth Melbourne. if they can't do E-Gate then they should then keep etihad.

Edited June 12, 2013 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,958]

Screw Cranbourne or Berwick or that whole Eastern slum.

I'm not going there ever.

I propose we set up a big hydro scheme and sell grams to kids at games until we can afford to buy the Lakeside oval and put in a sexy grandstand/bar .

The soccer can screw itself also.

Pointless thinking about the East.

It's dead and it sux bigtime.

Only churchies and teachers live there.

theres a few I've just found out, but there are pockets of sanity along the ways.

[Macca 16,173]

well we're playing some games in Darwin for sponsorship... & to create a niche market.

Princes Park, wild horses wouldn't drag me there.

I'm all for us making good & for the AFL to successfully spread.

Honestly for a boutique stadium to be built, it should be to service that whole part of the state its in, & so a boutique stadium should be on the Gippsland Rail Line, & adjacent to the Freeways.

So along that route there is Sandown, then Noble Park, then Dandenong, & then out to Hallam or Berwick. but that is getting too far away for the Peninsular people. so IMO, Dandenong is central to the area.

What about if our club made extra money according to crowd sizes? Say a minimum $250,000 as a base rate. $325,000 for a crowd of over 20k and $400,000 if the crowd exceeds 25k. That's a fair incentive for our members and supporters to roll up. We are talking about games against GWS, GCS, Freo and Port. You can probably include the Eagles and Crows as well.

Or we could sell more games to Darwin, Cairns or Canberra for similar cash returns. At least in selling off home games locally, the bulk of our supporters can get to the games.

If the AFL want to spend a truckload of money and build a boutique stadium in the outer South East, well and good.

[dee-luded 2,958]

What about if our club made extra money according to crowd sizes? Say a minimum $250,000 as a base rate. $325,000 for a crowd of over 20k and $400,000 if the crowd exceeds 25k. That's a fair incentive for our members and supporters to roll up. We are talking about games against GWS, GCS, Freo and Port. You can probably include the Eagles and Crows as well.

Or we could sell more games to Darwin, Cairns or Canberra for similar cash returns. At least in selling off home games locally, the bulk of our supporters can get to the games.

If the AFL want to spend a truckload of money and build a boutique stadium in the outer South East, well and good.

the only ones that would prosper IMO out of it, would be the owners, Carton... that would only serve to make a bigger wedge between {Us, the Doggies & Roos} & the current Power clubs... they are trying to stay with the Pies & the Bombers.

we would become just tenants in their house. they would hold all the cards for the future & we would be helping them screw us... we have to ensure they don't get the Boutique rights.

* We missed the real opportunity when our president was cowering at the wheel...

Eddie pounced, & now has the elite training base setup.

We have to Stop thinking Small !!! & start to think bigger picture & long term.. not short term tenancy boosting our opponents. & we have to boost our inner suburban grass roots support base... ignored for too long, & only given lip service.

[CBDees 3,162]

As another option out of left field, didn't the AFL at one stage speak about building another stadium at Docklands (and didn't MFC talk about establishing facilities there)? Obviously it would need to be 50000 capacity (to maybe form part of a future World Cup bid) but this could assist in gaining Federal, State and Local Government support! A major factor is that at least it would be in MELBOURNE and be attractively located also for the Doggies and the Roos! Although I hate Etihad, at least it would be relatively accessible to public transport and central but better still it would give MFC access to two "home" grounds in Melbourne City and not dilute our brand name (vs Casey, Princess Park or Geelong) whilst retaining our MCG base for the 'bigger' games when we steadily regain our rightful position as a powerhouse club, yet giving us (and the AFL) flexibility in the interim.