Young midfielders/small forwards not getting game time

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

I know it's super early in the season but we may as well start looking now so we can watch these guys through the season. We desperately need to add some players to our list in these positions.

Patrick Karnezis (BRIS) - High half forward flanker/wing man
190cm 88kg

Pick 25 2010 draft

Would be recruited to play on a wing with added height a bonus.

Finds the footy and ball use can be great or a bit so so depending on the day

Currently spending a lot of time as an emergency

ROLE: Upgrade on current half forwards like Byrnes/Tapscott and time on a wing in competition with Matt Jones/Evans/Toumpas
VALUE: Mid to late second round pick

Ben Sinclair (COLL) - Defensive forward, untried in midfield

181cm 80kg

PICK 62 2009 draft

Very good defensive work rate and hunger for the contest

Skills are reasonable over short distances can be very clean

ROLE: Upgrade on Rohan Bail as defensive forward, midfield potential
VALUE: 3rd round pick

Viv Michie (FREO) - Versatile Flanker/wingman

185cm 85kg

PICK 44 2010 draft
Currently named to extended bench for game against us this week
2 injury ravaged seasons (navicular stress fracture) at Freo
But can seriously play, clean skills and calls

ROLE: Similar to Karnezis as a half forward/wing prospect

VALUE: 3rd round pick, possibly higher depending on injury/form for rest of the year

Tom Curren (STK) - midfielder

178cm 78kg

PICK 24 2010 ROOKIE draft
Spending his third year on StK rookie list
Obviously a loyal kid given he won Sandy's b+f last year and still wasn't upgraded

Can win the ball inside and out

ROLE: Midfielder competition with the likes of Evans, M. Jones etc

VALUE: Late 3rd round pick and would need contract incentive to draw away from Saints

Jesse Stringer (GEEL) - Midfielder
182cm 82kg

PICK 61 2010 Rookie draft
Obviously fails the character test with his poor behaviour previously

Currently recovering from hamstring injury
Skills a bit iffy but displayed a good knack for a goal and hard running in his brief AFL career
ROLE: Midfield competition, can play half forward as well

VALUE: 3rd round pick

Liam Anthony (NM) - Mature Outside midfielder
189cm 88kg
2009 Rookie draft

Will be 26 by the end of the year and in and out of North's side so is a bit of the Pedersen's about this guy but he has a career average of 23 disposals and always finds the ball. Ball use isn't perfect and I believe he gets dropped from North for better and younger defensive guys with more positional versatility
But considering we went aft Farren Ray last year this guy is very similar
ROLE: Upgrade on the wing position increasing midfield competition
VALUE: Late 3rd/4th round pick only

Todd Banfield (BRIS) - Small forward

183cm 83kg
PICK 41 2008 AFL draft

Out of favour small forward who was the next big thing but is now rarely sighted

When he burst on to the scene he looked good defensive and could hit the scoreboard
? Concerns over fitness
ROLE: Small forward
VALUE: With such lack of game time at Brisbane I get the feeling he's headed for the scrap heap, rookie pick up

Aidan Riley (ADEL) - inside midfielder

182cm 86kg
Former NSW scholarship rookie
Hard at it clearance midfielder
22 touches, 8 clearances on the weekend in the SANFL

Just 10 AFL games and yet to break into crows team this year
ROLE: Hard at it inside midfielder
VALUE: 3rd round pick

[Grimes is Great 183]

Clint Jones & Travis Colyer also not getting games, could be targets.

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

Clint Jones & Travis Colyer also not getting games, could be targets.

Colyer yes.

Cline Jones is 29 no thanks.

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

At one point North really rated Anthony didn't they? what happened there?

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

At one point North really rated Anthony didn't they? what happened there?

Classic case of player in a bad side reaching his ceiling I think. As North have got better and better they don't need an accumulating wingman without any other great attributes. Plus Sam Gibson took that role and is a bit harder at it I think. Other guys like Wright, Atley, McMillan had to fit into the side.

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

Classic case of player in a bad side reaching his ceiling I think. As North have got better and better they don't need an accumulating wingman without any other great attributes. Plus Sam Gibson took that role and is a bit harder at it I think. Other guys like Wright, Atley, McMillan had to fit into the side.

Might be worth a look, god knows we need guys who can get the footy and probably wouldn't have to give up much or anything for him.

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

Might be worth a look, god knows we need guys who can get the footy and probably wouldn't have to give up much or anything for him.

Yeah I think so. Would make us automatically a little better as a free pick up compared to some of the battlers on our list. I really think our list needs big turnovers with up to 10 senior list spots for grabs and we can't fill them all in the draft

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

Yeah I think so. Would make us automatically a little better as a free pick up compared to some of the battlers on our list. I really think our list needs big turnovers with up to 10 senior list spots for grabs and we can't fill them all in the draft

Surely Anthony would be classified as a "battler" if he can't get a game at Norths, I thought everybody didn't like getting players from other teams

Why are we putting so much time and effort in to Josh Tynan, Rory Taggert, Dean Kent, Dom Barry, Sam Blease, Mitch Clisby, Nathan Stark, assume you think they won't be at the Club next year?

[Bates Mate 4,487]

I loved Banfield when he came onto the scene looked to be a forward pocket special , pace goal sense and magnificent red hair

Not sure why he fell out of favour so quickly never to be seen again.

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

Surely Anthony would be classified as a "battler" if he can't get a game at Norths, I thought everybody didn't like getting players from other teams

Why are we putting so much time and effort in to Josh Tynan, Rory Taggert, Dean Kent, Dom Barry, Sam Blease, Mitch Clisby, Nathan Stark, assume you think they won't be at the Club next year?

Very happy for Stark and Clisby to stay on the rookie list, maybe even Clisby get promoted if he can get over his injuries and be a possible inclusion as a rookie upgrade. Barry, Kent, Taggert all promising kids. Tynan isn't up to it I've seen enough of him. Blease I'd listen to any offers for because whilst he's talented it's a struggle for him to show it.

I don't want to turn this into a delisting thread but at this stage:

Tynan, Spencer, Davey, Macdonald, at least 1 of Pedo/Sellar, Nicholson, Rodan, Gillies, Davis, Bail, Couch ®.

That's 10 delistings. Upgrade Magner. Add Hogan.. Keep Stark and Clisby on the rookie list.

Now these days you get a choice between 38-40 senior list and 4-6 rookies. So I'd be looking for 6-7 more additions to the senior list and 3-4 for the rookie list. We can't fill that many spots purely out of the draft the talent most likely wont be there so we should look for a couple more mature players added in. I don't want to fill the list with list cloggers but we need to add some more mature agers/recycled talent in some ways. I see Liam Anthony as a massive upgrade on Dan Nicholson.

If you look at Sam Dwyer from Coll via Port Melb and look at Chris Cain who everyone says is the next Sam Dwyer you could add him and replace Roh Bail. I'm sure there is a mature or out of a game defender with more promise than Sellar, Davis and Gillies.

[Grimes Times 1,278]

Jed Lamb - SYD small forward/mid?

3rd year on list and picked for only his 2nd game this weekend. Highly rated at draft time.

Although if he was at Melb there would have been calls to delist him after 2 years due to him not getting a game!!!

[Soidee 1,496]

Too many list cloggers at our club who have not developed or are not up to it.

[Older demon 2,741]

Excellent post and great info gathering leading to interesting discussion. Rather than decide who goes I like the idea of seeing who is available and where they could fit in. This is how Sydney built their list with Kennedy, Mumford etc and really is Moneyball

[Dee Only Way 1]

Michael Rischitelli

I have been wanting to bring this player to discussion for a while, is 27/28 next year.

Hardened player, and with all the youth of GC would have to be approaching the outer. (i know injuries have hampered him this year and last)

I know its another Neeld type quick fix, but if we can get him on the cheap + couple early round mids, it would be great for our club

I believe he is also in the last of 3 year contract

Thoughts?

[whatwhat say what 22,758]

Craig Bird (Syd) - defensive midfielder / defensive high half forward
179cm 85kg

Would be recruited to play as a pure mid at the Dees.

Hard as nails, loves a goal, and is reasonably quick with pretty good skills.

Had a fantastic 2012, but has been in and out in 2013 thus far. Comes from the best footy culture in the AFL

ROLE: Upgrade on current half forwards like Byrnes/Tapscott and a better pure mid option than anyone on our list bar N Jones and Viney.
VALUE: Late first round to second round pick

Edited May 24, 2013 by DemonAndrew

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

Whilst I can see where you are coming from, but again, you are looking at guys who will have had 2 years of the Neeld system (unless of course you assume Neeld won't be there next year) so you then want to throw 10 of them away, and start again

And as you have listed mostly midfielders, small forwards on your list and topic title, why would you get rid of Spencer a ruckman, and tall defenders in Sellar and Pedersen

What exactly is wrong with Tynan?

And Bail and Nicholson are regulars in the 22 at the moment so could you really see them being cut adrift if Neeld is still at MFC?

Brian Royal has said they would love another quality midfielder, I would personally not consider any of those you listed as a "quality midfielder"

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

Whilst I can see where you are coming from, but again, you are looking at guys who will have had 2 years of the Neeld system (unless of course you assume Neeld won't be there next year) so you then want to throw 10 of them away, and start again

And as you have listed mostly midfielders, small forwards on your list and topic title, why would you get rid of Spencer a ruckman, and tall defenders in Sellar and Pedersen

What exactly is wrong with Tynan?

And Bail and Nicholson are regulars in the 22 at the moment so could you really see them being cut adrift if Neeld is still at MFC?

Brian Royal has said they would love another quality midfielder, I would personally not consider any of those you listed as a "quality midfielder"

I don't see it as starting again but continued list overhaul that is required regardless of who is coaching. We have the worst list in the league so have to keep turning it over.

No doubt one pick in either draft would be wisely spent on a ruck man and tall defender to replace those that I've mentioned. Hannath is already a better prospect that Spencer. They'll be another type like that out there I'm sure. But what we really need is midfielders hence the thread.

Bail and Nicholson are getting games because we have a decent sized injury list and a bunch of kids not ready for AFL. If a coach really puts his future on those two then he's a fool.

As for what's wrong with tynan are you serious? He's slow, can't defend and can't kick. Hence why he's in the Casey 2's. He also had 5 kicked on him by Byrnes in the intraclub. That says it all doesn't it?

Royal wants one good mid?! He needs about 5! He might get a few out of Evans, Jones, Trengove or Toumpas but we need to keep drafting and recruiting more as well. Find me the star mid who's available for a reasonable draft pick and Ill make the swap. At the moment the only names we've heard are daisy Thomas and Prestia and we aren't sure what Gold Coast want or if he would leave anyway

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

Craig Bird (Syd) - defensive midfielder / defensive high half forward

179cm 85kg

Would be recruited to play as a pure mid at the Dees.

Hard as nails, loves a goal, and is reasonably quick with pretty good skills.

Had a fantastic 2012, but has been in and out in 2013 thus far. Comes from the best footy culture in the AFL

ROLE: Upgrade on current half forwards like Byrnes/Tapscott and a better pure mid option than anyone on our list bar N Jones and Viney.

VALUE: Late first round to second round pick

Good contribution! I agree he'd be a handy pick up but would take our second rounder to get him I think. He's always been a bit in and out but you get the sense come finals he'll be back in. How old is he? He's been around for a while

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

I don't see it as starting again but continued list overhaul that is required regardless of who is coaching. We have the worst list in the league so have to keep turning it over.

No doubt one pick in either draft would be wisely spent on a ruck man and tall defender to replace those that I've mentioned. Hannath is already a better prospect that Spencer. They'll be another type like that out there I'm sure. But what we really need is midfielders hence the thread.

Bail and Nicholson are getting games because we have a decent sized injury list and a bunch of kids not ready for AFL. If a coach really puts his future on those two then he's a fool.

As for what's wrong with tynan are you serious? He's slow, can't defend and can't kick. Hence why he's in the Casey 2's. He also had 5 kicked on him by Byrnes in the intraclub. That says it all doesn't it?

Royal wants one good mid?! He needs about 5! He might get a few out of Evans, Jones, Trengove or Toumpas but we need to keep drafting and recruiting more as well. Find me the star mid who's available for a reasonable draft pick and Ill make the swap. At the moment the only names we've heard are daisy Thomas and Prestia and we aren't sure what Gold Coast want or if he would leave anyway

We have an inexperienced list, why is it the worst?, the results at the moment, yes, the results going forward, who knows, maybe not

Why is Hannath a better prospect? Spencer is developing nicely

Decent sized injury list, 3 at the moment I think, what Clark who is a KPF and Grimes who is a defender or midfielder and Viney, so Bail and Nicholson are getting games because those three are out?

Gawn is sitting in Clark's spot and Magner came in for Viney, and Strauss when Grimes went down

Tynan is still very young, true his progress seems to have stalled at the moment but he has had injury/body issues, so perhaps there is a reason, where do you get the "he can't kick" or is that just the usual MFC malaise

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

We have an inexperienced list, why is it the worst?, the results at the moment, yes, the results going forward, who knows, maybe not

Why is Hannath a better prospect? Spencer is developing nicely

Decent sized injury list, 3 at the moment I think, what Clark who is a KPF and Grimes who is a defender or midfielder and Viney, so Bail and Nicholson are getting games because those three are out?

Gawn is sitting in Clark's spot and Magner came in for Viney, and Strauss when Grimes went down

Tynan is still very young, true his progress seems to have stalled at the moment but he has had injury/body issues, so perhaps there is a reason, where do you get the "he can't kick" or is that just the usual MFC malaise

Haha Spencer is developing nicely. Now I've heard it all. What is Spencer developing into? He's utterly incompetent at AFL level and hasn't shown anything else. Can't mark, can't kick and got trounced by Zac Smith and Robbie Warnock. How many more years does he need? Hannath isn't setting the world on fire but can kick the ball and took a game saving mark against Richmond. You cant say in 3 years on an AFL list when he'll be the same age as Spencer that he won't offer more. Spencer has now spent 6 years on an AFL list and hasn't improved his kicking or marking at all. He's good at hits out in the VFL but finds AFL ruckman dominant still. Jamar by Spencer's time in the system was at least starting to win a few hit outs and show some strength.

Tynan is a bad kick, I've seen him play AFL and VFL and at training. Especially at training its very simple to see who under no pressure can kick a footy with accuracy and who can't. Poor action and poor results. Bad kicking is notoriously hard to fix especially at a side like Melbourne. Plus he isn't fast or super fit and if he had better ball winning talent wouldn't be in the VFL. Third round draft pick in a compromised draft. We don't owe him anything by keeping him. Keeping him would be throwing good money after bad.

A fit Viney, Toumpas, Grimes, Watts and Byrnes would see Nicholson and Bail out of the side for sure. Bail should be dropped this week for Brynes, Nicholson is on the edge as well any of Toumpas, Viney or Grimes available would see him out of the team. Either way both aren't AFL standard so this highlights how young and poor the list is and therefore they should be out and replaced by kids and some guys with a few years in the system with much more potential which is every player I've listed in the OP. Or mature ages like Terlich and M. Jones if available.

Why is our list the worst? Really? Well besides GWS we are the worst team in the comp and they have much better kids and whilst we have some potential talent we have very few players who play consistently well at all. Name a club with a worse list than us? Even the saints who are heading towards danger when Riewoldt/Hayes and co retire have unearthed some nice kids recently.

I don't understand how you sit here thinking the worst team since Fitzroy should just sit on their hands and hope a bunch of underperforming players improve. We need to make a bunch of changes and with this draft not compromised we have the opportunity to hit the draft and to look for some kids with a bit more experience. Port Adelaide found a couple who played really well against us in Heath and Stevenson. Both aren't perfect but they are better than guys who shouldn't even be on AFL lists. St Kilda found a great pick up in Dylan Roberton who wanted to be closer to his baby mammas mamma in Frankston.

Edited May 24, 2013 by the master

[whatwhat say what 22,758]

Cameron Guthrie (Geel) - small defender / defensive midfielder
186cm 86kg

Could be recruited to play as a pure mid at the Dees, but it's really as a small defender that he's played most of his senior AFL football.

Hard as nails, pretty quick, doesn't get a heap of it but locks down on a man.

He's been very impressive in patches in the brilliant Cats' side, and would waltz into a midfield role at the Dees.

ROLE: Given our dearth of small defenders he could play that role or - preferably - would command a midfield role at Melbourne, where he kicked goals at TAC Cup level.
VALUE: Second to third round pick

[whatwhat say what 22,758]

oh, and bird is 24 this year, guthrie is 21 later this year.

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

Cameron Guthrie (Geel) - small defender / defensive midfielder

186cm 86kg

Could be recruited to play as a pure mid at the Dees, but it's really as a small defender that he's played most of his senior AFL football.

Hard as nails, pretty quick, doesn't get a heap of it but locks down on a man.

He's been very impressive in patches in the brilliant Cats' side, and would waltz into a midfield role at the Dees.

ROLE: Given our dearth of small defenders he could play that role or - preferably - would command a midfield role at Melbourne, where he kicked goals at TAC Cup level.

VALUE: Second to third round pick

I really like Guthrie as a player. Thought he was the best defensive minded TAC player in years. But I question whether he'd be right for us because I have some confidence with Terlich, Grimes, Strauss, Garland even Clisby that our small defending stocks are ok. So if we put him in the midfield would he just be a half reasonable upgraded on McKenzie? Is that the position we really need? Even Geelong use Taylor Hunt and George H-S instead as taggers because they want there taggers to have more class. Again as I said I like him but I question his upside. The other thing is now he's cracked best 22 (even temporarily) will he have any desire to leave?

[MadAsHell 4,212]

TALL DEFENCES TARGETS

Todd Banfield (Bris)

Age: 23

Height: 183cm

Weight: 83kg

Games: 53

Goals: 57

Role: Small forward goal sneak. With Byrnes & Davey both getting on cover is needed in this area. Burst onto the scene but has since fallen out of favour. Could be easily obtained with a late draft pick.

Dylan Buckley (Carlton)

Age: 20

Height: 179cm

Weight: 75kg

Games: 1

Goals: 1

Role: See Banfields role, however young Buckley I think in time could have an impact playing further up the ground on a wing. Is currently behing Betts, Garlett & Yarran and after 2 years on the Blues list might be looking for more opportunities. Is lightning quick and knows where the goals are. Again shouldn't cost to dear a price.

David Ellard (Carlton)

Age: 24

Height: 177cm

Weight: 79kg

Games: 39

Goals: 22

Role: Another hard running midfielder/forward similar to Evans. In his 5th year on the Blues list now and still yet to cement a senior spot due to the likes of Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson, Carrazo etc... Is very quick and tough at the contest.

Travis Colyer (Essendon)

Age: 21

Height: 175cm

Weight: 75kg

Games: 29

Goals: 17

Role: More midfield depth and a very good player around stoppages and could push the likes of Jetta and Magner on their way. Again is lightning fast and has the versatility to play forward and down back. 4 years at Essendon and still yet to secure a spot in the team.

Leroy Jetta (Essendon)

Age: 24

Height: 180cm

Weight: 78kg

Games: 84

Goals: 73

Role: Small/defensive forward and would put the heat on the likes of Davey, Byrnes, Tapscott & Bail. Is in the right age & games played bracket that Neeld goes on about and seems out of favour at Essendon.

George Horlin-Smith (Geelong)

Age: 20

Height: 186cm

Weight: 83cm

Games: 9

Goals: 3

Role: Strong bodied midfielder/HFF. Will put the heat on the likes of Taggert to lift if he want to get a game. Yet to cement his spot at Geelong but is starting to get more opportunities. Perhaps the lure of more games and money here could get him across. Not sure how much it would cost at a trade?

Daniel Gorringe (Gold Coast)

Age: 20

Height: 200cm

Weight: 96kg

Games: 8

Goals: 2

Role: Another young ruckman/forward on our list is essential. With Jamar near the end, Gawn's injury concerns and Spencer not being up to it IMO, Gorringe would be a great get. Into his 3rd year and is 2nd/3rd in line at GC. Would cost a bit, Would our 2nd round pick and Fitzpatrick be wishful thinking? Probably.

Dion Prestia (Gold Coast)

Age: 20

Height: 175cm

Weight: 81kg

Games: 38

Goals: 5

Role: Inside/Outside midfielder who would walk into our 22, the kid is pure class and has alerady been linked to us. Would be a bright spark in dark times. Would probably cost our 1st round pick with other dealings.

Mitch Hallahan (Hawthorn)

Age: 20

Height: 183cm

Weight: 84kg

Games: 0

Goals: 0

Role: Strong bodied midfielder who is good around the clearances and I've been impressed with him when I've seen him at VFL level. Has the likes of Mitchell, Sewell, Lewis etc keeping him ou of Hawthorns side. Would cost us a 3rd round pick max, possibly 4th if we can give good enough insentive for him to come across.

Oliver Wines (Port Adelaide)

Age: 18

Height: 187cm

Weight: 89kg

Games: 8

Goals: 4

Role: Inside mid, goodbye to Jordie McKenzie as Ollie, Jones and Jack Viney would lead our midfield. Would love Wines to come across but I know it wont happen. Would require us giving up our 1st pick and he probably isn't worth that.

David Astbury (Richmond)

Age: 22

Height: 195cm

Weight: 96kg

Games: 24

Goals: 7

Role: With all the concern on this forum about us loosing Chip, Astbury could be a handy security pick up. Can play either end and is still very young. First few games looked like he was going to be very good before some injury concerns. Could be secured very cheaply as he's likely in the firing line over at Punt Road.

Tom Mitchell (Sydney)

Age: 19

Height: 181cm

Weight: 83kg

Games: 0

Goals: 0

Role: Classy outside mid could mean the likes of Nicholson would be no more. Yet to debut for the Swans in his 2nd year and was a very highly rated junior. You'd expect is some time from getting a game due to the Swans list. Money/opportunity to get him across? Doubt the Swans would let him go or that he'd even want to. 2nd round pick plus a player may get it doen?

Brad Sheppard (West Coast)

Age: 22

Height: 186cm

Weight: 82kg

Games: 36

Goals: 11

Role: Distributer off half back, the role we've been waiting for Strauss to make his own but is yet to. Like many on this list is yet to cement a spot in West Coast's 22. Possibly a straight swap for Strauss and a late pick?

[What 18,810]

Craig Bird and Todd Banfield

Two guys I really want the MFC to go get.