No use sacking Neeld

[pm24 451]

pm, again some very valid points raised, however, 20 months in, are you not alarmed by the skill level and overall development of our players? If you had to explain the gameplan on Sunday, could you do it in earnest? That is to say, from a purely football perspective, how have we progressed? (please no mention of fitness because in terms of match fitness we are seemingly woeful)

It is fine, and indeed correct, to the point to the cultural failings of our club in the past. But is it not equally valid to say that Neeld us guilty of OVERcorrection in trying to address this? Jackson has said that you should never assume everything done in the past was wrong. It would seem that Neeld drew this conclusion from the moment he arrived, and we are now seeing the effects. He's the one under the microscope because this list and this playing style are his construct.

We don't have time on our side now. Supporters are dropping daily, and trying to attract sponsors in 2014 and beyond doesn't bare thinking about. It is at an absolutely critical stage for the future of this club. Brave decisions have to be made.

Haven't even seen the game yet. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to get too many games at the moment. So can't comment on it, except to say that from what I've heard, and just based on the pure fact of who were beaten buy, I can assume that the level of effort was dismal.

I'm not a football expert, so don't feel I'm in a position to comment as to whether there has or hasn't been an overcorrection by Neeld. There may have been, and more work is certainly needed to address the skill level of the players. But, I feel more inclined to think that the change was necessary when a guy like Dave Misson, who has been present in successful clubs during times of success (St Kilda during their grand final run) emphasises just how far behind the team is from a fitness perspective. Now, as I said, I'm not football expert, but I would think that statements such as that from Misson should be listened to.

With that said, I will acknowledge that I have not once made it down to training to watch the training sessions, so I don't know how much skill work they are doing or how much they should be doing. However, our skills are woeful. But should I blame the training practices of the club for that, or is it a consistent problem across all teams with young lists in the competition. My view is the latter. All teams with young lists struggle for consistency and with skill errors. I would envisage that the next pre-season (if Neeld is still in charge) would see more skill work. I think those who reported on the preseason training this year acknowledged that skill work and game simulation sessions took place earlier than the previous season because the fitness levels where better.

Also, without being part of the football department, I can't say whether there was an overcorrection because I have no knowledge of what it was like previously. The supposed overcorrection, might actually be the exactly right amount of correction and that it could only become evident over time. Once again, I do not think that the blame should be solely placed on the coach. My main point was that the problems within the club appear to be deeper than just the Coach. Jackson has already identified the problems within the Football Department. I know Rivers has made some comments about the previous leaders not being acknowledged or recognised, but there have also been statements about how some of the senior players in club walked around like they were God's gift to football (i'm paraphrasing by the way). So, it's plausible that Rivers was one of the players, and therefore brings into question whether his views of the Neeld way are truely credible when they could be biased. I don't know for sure. You don't know for sure. None of us know for sure. It is all purely conjecture based on rumblings that are heard around the place.

But, if you look at the club over time, there are clearly problems and to me it is the culture that is at the core of it. People calling for Roos to take on the job here need to also realise that before he took over at Sydney, Barassi was appointed to help fix the club, then Rodney Eade took over. Who's to say that it wasn't barassi that fixed the culture of that club before Eade and Roos started Coaching. The AFL had to step in to help the Swans in 93" and then Barassi started, and then Lockett and Roos were brought in as players and they made it to a GF in 1996, with a much more experienced list than we have. My main point is, culture cannot be fixed overnight. And fixing a culture while also rebuilding at the same time is doubly hard. So, I am not going to lay sole blame on Neeld, because in my mind, the Coach is only one part in the overall function of a club, albeit an important part, but if other parts are malfunctioning, then regardless of what that important part does, the product is not going to work as it should.

[Sir Why You Little 36,938]

and Hopefully ROOS will not accept the job at any price with the same Playing Group, as I suspect he woudn't... All hyperthetical and probably not worth carrying on about much further.. If a new coach comes in and is given a new list and the team eventually performs better ... Does that in fact make him a better coach than MN ?? OR IF MN had a list similar to any proposed for the "new" coach would he enjoy the same results.. Highly hyperthetical of course.. The bottom line question is Would Neeld achieve better results if he had a stronger list ??? Of course he would wouldn't he ?? I believe most times Players help make coaches and NOT necessarily vice versa.... How is SHEEDY , a so called "great", "successful" Coach going at the moment with the "list' he has at GWS ??? NO coach is any good with a "Shyte list". I am by no means a Mark Neeld fan as I have sometimes shown on this site, but I can see why he cannot make any progress at the moment... I have read so many times that this is "NEELD"S list and if that is totally correct then he will probably fall on his own sword... Just trying trying to make what I feel is a valid point with regards to AFL Coaches..

Are you for real?

Are you telling me this motley crew of a playing list are giving 100%??

A Paul Roos coach would get this limp bunch sorted within hours.

BUT IT WILL COST.

[pm24 451]

Are you for real?

Are you telling me this motley crew of a playing list are giving 100%??

A Paul Roos coach would get this limp bunch sorted within hours.

BUT IT WILL COST.

And what would everyone be saying if Roos didn't have this club where everyone expected it to be after 18 months?

[[email protected] 101]

I would like you to name these players,

of yesterdays game i would say Spencer, Nicholson sellar and bail are outright not at AFL standard

Frawley, Dunn, Mckenzie, strauss, davey, garland, tapscott, byrnes and dawes are AFL standard but didn't have good games. ( for whatever reason )

and the rest are the only thing holding our club together.

You would like me to name more players than you just did ?? I would like you to name those players whom it is "entirely possible a good number may have no faith in their coach" as you quoted.. This appears to be a stalemate and it seems all you have done is name some you believe are not up to AFL standard , which strangely, partly backs up my comment.which you disputed , didn't you ?? where are the names of the Faithless ones ???? Waste of time pursuing this point any further .... Going round in circles.. .

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

When are you guys going to get it?

The playing list is the responsibility of the coach. Our list has gone backwards under this hopelessly under qualified coach. At the end of 2011 when there were 4 teams looking for a new coach, Melbourne had by far the most exciting developing list of the 4. The media agreed. We were 4 years into a rebuild with a good smothering of experienced older players with the remainder of the list made up almost entirely of 1st and 2nd round players. The club was in finals contention until late in the season (for the 2nd year in a row), and had some thumping victories. Sure there were some holes and there were issues, but there was also the basis for an excellent developing team. What has happened since this point is nothing short of horrifying. I don't need to rehash in a step by step blow, you have all read it before. What is important to remember is that Neeld is personally responsible for all the stuff ups, poor trading, player management, game plan, etc etc etc. The buck stops with the coach. The leadership style, everything to do with football is the responsibility of the coach.

As I first said after 4 rounds last year (and I was smashed for saying this). The appointment of Mark Neeld as coach is the greatest mistake this club has made since the sacking of Norm Smith. I wish my prediction was wrong. The red flags started to shoot up almost from his very first press conference. Anyone who knows anything about management would have started to have serious concerns very early. The way he split the playing group was breathtaking. You cannot understate the damage he has done to the playing group, to the club.

I am close friends with one of the player managers who is directly responsible for a number of our better players on our list. I promise that a number of our better players are very seriously considering asking for trades or taking free agency come seasons end. Worse the general AFL community know this, opposition clubs have already started to make moves on our better players. The only chance we have of saving our club from extinction is to sack Neeld today (pretty sure it will happen). Even then the damage he has done may already be terminal.

For God Sake cut out this cancer..... Neeld before it kills us.

I hear what you're saying GNF but we can't excuse the non effort form the players - Effort on the field is dictated by the playing group not the coach.

The coach is ultimately responsible for the playing group - I believe the FD will be held responisble (we all know the implactions of these preformances) but I don't like that the players get off scott free...

It's too easy to just blame the coach - this culture is why we are where we are now, no accountibility from the playing list all the way through to the top of the admin

[Jonesbag 487]

Sack Neeld, sack everyone and start again.

[Sir Why You Little 36,938]

your comment neither changes my mind nor does it address my post in any detail , a post which you call "absolute rubbish" I think your reply is strangely partly endorsing my comments.. respecting the fact you have posted towards 19000 posts but adding that calling my post "absolute rubbish" is maybe just that.. Hopefully most players are not in the side just to "tackle" If so we are in worse trouble than I actually thought...

What is the actual point you are trying to make??

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

And what happens when he can't get the team to the promised land WYL????......After paying out contracts......Paying Zillions for Roos.....and financially ruining the club.......I thought Barassi coming back to coach all those years ago was supposed to deliver some success?????....What happened to that?????....Paul Roos does not want to coach........and if he did he would not come to Melbourne......You can demand all you want....but it will not happen....

No you are wrong. Roos does want to coach again. He will be coaching somewhere next season. Melbourne is in the hunt. Take this as fact.

Although Barassi,s period of coach did not produce finals, I think it would be unfair to say it was a failure. Melbourne made the finals for the very first time since 1964 in 1987 one season after Barassi's departure. It is my view we were unlucky not to win a premiership with this group. The seeds that Barassi sewed in culture and playing group may have taken longer than expected to grow, but they did and Barassi was responsible for kicking off two decades of success. Two decades that we were consistently in the finals.

[[email protected] 101]

And what would everyone be saying if Roos didn't have this club where everyone expected it to be after 18 months?

HA !! HA !! SACK THE COACH, of course !!! As we do every time most of the players start playing like the players they really are and not playing like players with superior ability

[Ted Lasso 19,223]

You would like me to name more players than you just did ?? I would like you to name those players whom it is "entirely possible a good number may have no faith in their coach" as you quoted.. This appears to be a stalemate and it seems all you have done is name some you believe are not up to AFL standard , which strangely, partly backs up my comment.which you disputed , didn't you ?? where are the names of the Faithless ones ???? Waste of time pursuing this point any further .... Going round in circles.. .

I don't know the players personally, so i have no idea i am assuming something is wrong because the players aren't putting in enough effort, surely you have to admit that?

[Sir Why You Little 36,938]

And what would everyone be saying if Roos didn't have this club where everyone expected it to be after 18 months?

it is this attitude that is killing the club..."it's all to hard..."

I don't expect that to be a problem. Roos is a winner, like Ross Lyon whom G Lyon balked at chasing. The win.

Look at the Shockers even with a no name forward line. The players give their all & more.

Where as at the MFC the players do not give a stuff for whatever political reason & we still pay them the same wage as Geelong.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

I hear what you're saying GNF but we can't excuse the non effort form the players - Effort on the field is dictated by the playing group not the coach.

The coach is ultimately responsible for the playing group - I believe the FD will be held responisble (we all know the implactions of these preformances) but I don't like that the players get off scott free...

It's too easy to just blame the coach - this culture is why we are where we are now, no accountibility from the playing list all the way through to the top of the admin

I don't disagree, but I say the culture is the direct responsibility of the coach. The lack of effort is indefensible. However, a good coach has the ability of developing a good culture, of motivating and inspiring players. Getting the most out of your players is the PRIMARY responsibility of a coach.

Neeld is part of the problem. He certainly is not part of the solution.

[ThreeOneSix 954]

And what would everyone be saying if Roos didn't have this club where everyone expected it to be after 18 months?

History tells us that Paul Roos is more likely to succeed - than fail.

Roos would improve this club dramatically, it's what he does.

[[email protected] 101]

Bollocks

Fantastic weak counter argument ????? This is typical of a person unable to sensibly put up a decent reply or argument... Please try not o be so unproductive...

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

it is this attitude that is killing the club..."it's all to hard..."

I don't expect that to be a problem. Roos is a winner, like Ross Lyon whom G Lyon balked at chasing. The win.

Look at the Shockers even with a no name forward line. The players give their all & more.

Where as at the MFC the players do not give a stuff for whatever political reason & we still pay them the same wage as Geelong.

I had to read what you have been posting, it was too hard to ignore....here is a question for you....how many games did it take Roos to get Sydney the premiership.......if he came to MFC would you be willing to give him that long?

[Ted Lasso 19,223]

History tells us that Paul Roos is more likely to succeed - than fail.

Roos would improve this club dramatically, it's what he does.

He will also have some weight behind his word when he says we are on the right track, he has built a great culture and would be worth whatever we had to pay him in my opinion, i imagine alot of players would respond well to him also.

[The Reverend 1,736]

Neeld supporters have been strangely absent the past 24 hours (other than the odd "like" of a post).

Would be good to see some front up to either stand by their views and their belittling of other posters who have questioned the current FD, or admit they were wrong. One or the other. To just not show up is pretty [censored] weak in my view.

There is another category you've neglected. Those of us who have simply argued that more time is needed before we judge. Some of us have done this without belittling other posters.

Your post is just as belittling as it implies weakness not to have posted something.. kettles... black?

From my point of view, I'm waiting for the dust to settle. If you'd asked me at 3/4 time yesterday I would have done more than sack him. In the cold hard light of day I want someone to tell me what are the alternatives that will guarantee we move forward. We can't afford to slip further backwards.

[pm24 451]

History tells us that Paul Roos is more likely to succeed - than fail.

Roos would improve this club dramatically, it's what he does.

And how much time would you give Roos to improve the club?

[[email protected] 101]

I don't know the players personally, so i have no idea i am assuming something is wrong because the players aren't putting in enough effort, surely you have to admit that?

When it comes to rumour and innuendo I will not agree , sorry... Always dangerous I have found.. But if they have no faith in the coach there are internal means of expressing that concern... There is obviously some underlying unknown problems existing in this club which the members don't seem to be privvy to at this point in time..

[Sir Why You Little 36,938]

No you are wrong. Roos does want to coach again. He will be coaching somewhere next season. Melbourne is in the hunt. Take this as fact.

Although Barassi,s period of coach did not produce finals, I think it would be unfair to say it was a failure. Melbourne made the finals for the very first time since 1964 in 1987 one season after Barassi's departure. It is my view we were unlucky not to win a premiership with this group. The seeds that Barassi sewed in culture and playing group may have taken longer than expected to grow, but they did and Barassi was responsible for kicking off two decades of success. Two decades that we were consistently in the finals.

Well said GNF...if anybody cannot see the work Barassi did and left for Northey then they need to study some history.

To be frightened of "poaching" Paul Roos because he doesn't like the club is pathetic talk.

Make him like it. Give him the power and control he needs to get the club firing.

It's time the Board kept quiet and learnt how it is done in the 21st Century.

Get rid of those Blazers....HIGH PRIORITY:)

[[email protected] 101]

No you are wrong. Roos does want to coach again. He will be coaching somewhere next season. Melbourne is in the hunt. Take this as fact.

Although Barassi,s period of coach did not produce finals, I think it would be unfair to say it was a failure. Melbourne made the finals for the very first time since 1964 in 1987 one season after Barassi's departure. It is my view we were unlucky not to win a premiership with this group. The seeds that Barassi sewed in culture and playing group may have taken longer than expected to grow, but they did and Barassi was responsible for kicking off two decades of success. Two decades that we were consistently in the finals.

His successors just couldn't carry on and capitilize on the great man's work ??

[ThreeOneSix 954]

And how much time would you give Roos to improve the club?

Paul Roos built Sydney into the club that they are today, whilst also getting them to 2 grand finals, in which they won one.

He left them with a culture rivalled only by arguably the best team to ever play the game - certainly one of the most consistant, in Geelong.

Over a period of the past 10 years, Sydney are up there with Geelong for consistancy and Roos built this, it's his the culture that he built.

It's a culture still going strong, still at the top.

So how much time would I give a bloke who built Sydney and turned them into one of the most consistant clubs in the past decade?

I'd give him as much time as he needs, because the job will get done, the rewards will be worth the pain, unlike at the moment, we just see pain, no reward in sight.

[Giles 181]

I had to read what you have been posting, it was too hard to ignore....here is a question for you....how many games did it take Roos to get Sydney the premiership.......if he came to MFC would you be willing to give him that long?

From memory it took Roos 2.5 seasons to win the 2005 flag. Would that be about 60 games? He won 6 out of the last 10 as a caretaker in 2002. um... 6 out of the last 10. Reckon I'd give him a clear run at right now if he was interested.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Giles

[T-34 409]

Would be happy to get Roos but be aware that the real brains behind Sydney is currently coaching Fremantle.

Just hope Roos comes with another Ross Lyon as assistant otherwise it may not turn out as many would like.

[Arrow 1,257]

In this comment, it's one from the 3rd level of the MCC where you are lucky enough to see more than the TV shows you.

The problem with yesterday isn't the fact that for all 4 quarters the only person who consistently kicked the ball I50 'in front' or to advantage of our player leading was Chris Dawes. The problem with that is that he only had 2 I50. We as a team who train 5 times a week and are paid to play AFL... Could not kick the ball to advantage all day. It was horrendous.

The problem with yesterday is that every single time GC got the ball in their defensive 50, there was a man available to switch. Everytime. Not once in 4 quarters did Mark do something to fix it. None of the players worked hard enough because each and every occasion Gold Coast chipped their way up the wing finding loose men who had out run their Melbourne opponent.

But the biggest problem was post game. Blind Freddie could see yesterday was appalling, and so every media outlet could to. Yes the previous 6 weeks it wasn't the right time to put your head on the line and say yes we were rubbish, it happens but to tell supporters again that we thought we trained well, thought we could cover GC but they were TOO STRONG for us just shows how sadly Mark just doesn't get it.

Humbly, my avatar shows I had faith in Neeld's message, however the time is now up.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Demon Land 7