Line in the sand? Good idea or bad?

[Return to Glory 7,749]

ahhh yes, yes you are right.

Play your hardest? Play your best? Play your guts in?

I don't bloody even know what i'm talking about anymore (if i even ever did!)

Song, agree with your sentiment but also suspect you're mad.

[Bitter but optimistic 21,349]

ahhh yes, yes you are right.

Play your hardest? Play your best? Play your guts in?

I don't bloody even know what i'm talking about anymore (if i even ever did!)

I'm sure you'll feel better after the $1000.00 arrives. LOL!!!!

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Song, agree with your sentiment but also suspect you're mad.

I shall remind you that we are all Melbourne Football Club supporters and this is Demonland:

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

I'm sure you'll feel better after the $1000.00 arrives. LOL!!!!

oh yes, yes, yes.

I'm going to donate it to the "war chest" to assist us in luring an elite mid this trade season!

[Bitter but optimistic 21,349]

oh yes, yes, yes.

I'm going to donate it to the "war chest" to assist us in luring an elite mid this trade season!

No you're not!!!

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

No you're not!!!

no you're right, i'm not.

But i might buy a Max Gawn badge this weekend.

[Bitter but optimistic 21,349]

no you're right, i'm not.

But i might buy a Max Gawn badge this weekend.

Brave effort. No way I'm going to an away game against Carlscum. My fighting skills have deteriorated. I'll buy my badge online.

[Guest]

I agree with a line in the sand game BUT it can't be done as a prearranged thing. The original line in the sand game happened organically. Also, the impetus would need to come from someone with cred in this issue. This can't come from a faux tough guy.

[Geddy Lee 582]

I don't think we are physically soft/bruise free as in the past, we are just terrible now or lazy or unfit and simply not good enough.

I think the image of softness has been forgotten now that we have a few players who play tough like Jones, Sylvia, Magner and Terlich and have jettisoned the weight (albeit there wasn't much of that) of one Cale Morton.

Love this. It's not that we shirk contests. It's just that we don't get to them.

[deestar 159]

If magner is not in that mid field this Sunday and that zone defence [censored] dropped for a man on man set up with the miss dropping back to fill space ill go he !!! If we're were playing Carlton last week it would have been a 100 pointa !

[praha 10,294]

People attribute the "line in the sand game" as one of the defining moments in Hawthorn's revival, when it wasn't.

The reality is that a young, inexperienced side took it up to the opposition, not with physically intimidating football, but with physical intimidation, period.

The Bombers had been belting the Hawks all day and as soon as Hawthorn had a sniff, their emotions got the best of them, brawls started, and Essendon ended up kicking 14 of the last 20 goals after already being up 6 goals.

Melbourne has brought it for a few quarters this year -- the physically intimidating football you need to play for 4 quarters -- but it has been soundly beat each time, just as Hawthorn was that day.

Melbourne is about 3-4 years behind the Hawthorn team of 2004, which was in the 2nd year of its rebuild.

Neeld can crap on about "lines in the sand" but it doesn't matter how rough you are: the better team will always win.

Melbourne's only chance this year is if teams like GC, GWS, Saints, Bulldogs, maybe Crows, nod off for 20 minutes or so near the end of the game. This would of course follow Melbourne's own quarter lapse, which would need to have happened before the opposition's lapse.

I am not confident there will be any Essendon 2012-caliber wins this year.

Let's focus on actually getting and developing players like Campbell Brown, Vandenberg, Bateman, Holland, Williams in the team before we start pushing the "play a line in the sand game herp derp".

[Hardnut 327]

'Line in the sand idea' - dumb!

[bluey 891]

Last year Carlton averaged two more tackles than us... however so far this year that has increased to four.

Magner was #5 last year in tackles so that would be interesting to see what impact he would have if he came into the side.

Jordie McKenzie averaged the most last year with 6 (1 more than Davey, Jones, Trengrove and Magner), but also averaged the most frees against with 2 per game.

Trengrove is on fire so far this year with 7 tackles per game, Jetta is second with 5 + Grimes has lifted to #3 (was #6 last year)

A few players have dropped off a bit, Jordie, Watts and most of all Tapscott was averaging around 4 last year to 1 this year per game.

Nugget has dropped considerably but that fine considering his workload

That is the problem, tackling ball carriers, "we need to be the ball carriers", classic post, stack the club up with Magner, Mckenzie, that's it, and finish last one year after another.

[praha 10,294]

The "line in the sand" game is one of the biggest travesties in footy lore.

Essendon absolutely destroys Hawthorn. Hawthorn drew a line, but Essendon just rubbed over the line, played the ball -- it's what made Sheedy such a great coach -- and took advantage.

The Hawks were a travesty to this great game that day.

THIS is a line in the sand game:

[The heart beats true 16,338]

We've made so many lines in the sand we're contributing to coastal decay.

Great line Stuie. Gotta try and remember that one mate.

[DeeZee 6,779]

Sick of all the talk, all im interested in are actions.

If they dont show up to play, i switch off.

[titan_uranus 22,549]

Statistics relating to us sucking at contested ball and clearances are probably more indicative of our laziness more than anything.

I don't know whether 'soft' is the right word, because our problems go deeper than merely aggression. We don't tackle hard enough (too many broken tackles), we don't chase hard enough, we don't stand strong in enough marking contests.

I still feel like we're too unfit and not strong enough.

Serial pest Lynden Dunn will be back.

Is he a pest towards other players, or MFC supporters?

Either way, he deserves no place in a post talking about toughness.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Obviously a huge problem this year is that we aren't running nearly enough but I still think we aren't going hard enough for long enough.

If we were ever going to declare a line in the sand game it would have to be against Carlton.

Mitch Robinson openly called us soft. This is the same bloke who alledgedly had a cheap shot in the VFL behind play.

We could set an absolute standard for how we approach footy this week.

Magner should come in with Clark out for an extended period. Viney should be back in. He can take anything given his way. Tapscott isn't backwards in coming forward. Jones and Trengove aren't afraid of contact. It's time for Maxy Gawn and Chip Frawley to pay the iron price for those beards. Not to mention its time Jack Watts got some mongrel in him, otherwise if he's playing as the third tall Jesse Hogan will thank him for warming his spot in the team. Serial pest Lynden Dunn will be back.

Hawthorn were half a team of kids when they did it. And the other half were duds like Campbell Brown. But how many Hawks have you seen squib a contest since.

I'm not talking about big hits off the ball. But I'm happy to concede some free kicks for tackles that got a bit nasty. For spoils that came hard and unrelentingly. The benefit of drawing a line in the sand isn't about dishing out the punishment but learning when it comes back at you that you can take it and play through it.

Carlton have a few tough blokes, McLean and Robinson head the list. But theres a few who could be put off as well. Yarran, Garlett, Kane Lucas to name a few. Judd and Murphy will kill us if we sit back and play nice on them as well. And I'm not sure we've got a guy who can do what Taylor Hunt did to Murphy by running off him.

Am I out of touch with the modern game? Or is time our players took a step up and decided they didn't want to be known as a battling young side who were happy with a 5 goal loss on the road.

Bad !!!

This team is not ready for that.

... and we have some very important games to follow which we need all these boys available for selection.

the next 4 Rnds....

Rnd 6/ Blues

Rnd 7/ Suns

Rnd 8/ Tiges

Rnd 9/ Dockers

We need to get thru this week well, & in good shape... then we can get a group of form momentum games going... this will show us where we are.

Next year will/should be our kicking sand year...

[GrandOld 367]

Maybe we should try the Bombers approach and try the "Line up the Nose" idea ?

[Guest]

The "line in the sand" game is one of the biggest travesties in footy lore.

Essendon absolutely destroys Hawthorn. Hawthorn drew a line, but Essendon just rubbed over the line, played the ball -- it's what made Sheedy such a great coach -- and took advantage.

The Hawks were a travesty to this great game that day.

THIS is a line in the sand game:

I can't agree with this one Cudi. The effects of the Hawks drawing the line in the sand would not be seen till the next time they played. Watch what happened up till the point the Hawks took a stand. Essendon physically monstered them. Sling tackles, heavy bumps and throwing people into the fence. The games were over most of the time before the siren sounded as the Hawks were scared of the Bombers.

Line in the sand changed that. Up till that point, Essendon had an average winning margin of around 48 points (don't quote me on that) over Hawthorn that had stretched to a winning streak of 9 of the last 10 games. They won that game comfortably but they were always going to.

The next time Essendon played Hawthorn, they didn't try any of the shenanigans that they did previously. They only won by 3 points as well. After that Hawthorn have established their own little era of dominance over Essendon.

The Melbourne vs. Essendon game of 2012 was merely a reprieve for the MFC during a bleak year. If some feel that the Brisbane loss wasn't indicative of how bad we were, they should also say that the Essendon vs. Melbourne game was not a reflection of how good we were but of how Essendon were determined to self destruct. Unlike the line in the sand game, we didn't maintain our stranglehold on the Dons. We all saw what happened the next time we played them.

[praha 10,294]

I can't agree with this one Cudi. The effects of the Hawks drawing the line in the sand would not be seen till the next time they played. Watch what happened up till the point the Hawks took a stand. Essendon physically monstered them. Sling tackles, heavy bumps and throwing people into the fence. The games were over most of the time before the siren sounded as the Hawks were scared of the Bombers.

Line in the sand changed that. Up till that point, Essendon had an average winning margin of around 48 points (don't quote me on that) over Hawthorn that had stretched to a winning streak of 9 of the last 10 games. They won that game comfortably but they were always going to.

The next time Essendon played Hawthorn, they didn't try any of the shenanigans that they did previously. They only won by 3 points as well. After that Hawthorn have established their own little era of dominance over Essendon.

The Melbourne vs. Essendon game of 2012 was merely a reprieve for the MFC during a bleak year. If some feel that the Brisbane loss wasn't indicative of how bad we were, they should also say that the Essendon vs. Melbourne game was not a reflection of how good we were but of how Essendon were determined to self destruct. Unlike the line in the sand game, we didn't maintain our stranglehold on the Dons. We all saw what happened the next time we played them.

Or maybe Essendon of 2000-2004 was a better team than Hawthorn of 2000-2004, and Hawthorn 2005-2008 better than Essendon in the same period?

[Chook 14,594]

After some of the efforts I saw last week I'm convinced that there's a psychological barrier that needs breaking through. Our blokes just don't run like the other teams do. I just can't accept that the coaching staff don't remind them of this; the cast of thousand coaches can't possibly all be that inept (can they?). Be farked if I know what to do about it though.

That's exactly what it is. Even James Frawley said it after the Round 1 game against Port Adelaide. After seeing tape of him going half-heartedly in a chase, he said something to the effect of "I thought I was going fast but I wasn't."

With the exception of a few guys like Sam Blease, Aaron Davey and David Rodan who legitimately don't have the fitness, the rest of our players are not mentally committed enough to put in the effort required. Most of us couldn't do it either, but as supporters we are in the fortunate (or unfortunate) position of not having (or being able) to do what we see every other club's players doing every week.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Chook

[Guest]

Or maybe Essendon of 2000-2004 was a better team than Hawthorn of 2000-2004, and Hawthorn 2005-2008 better than Essendon in the same period?

But... how did that come to be?

[jazza 1,323]

oh yes, yes, yes.

I'm going to donate it to the "war chest" to assist us in luring an elite mid this trade season!

we would get 2 for that price

Edited May 1, 2013 by jazza

[DeeSpencer 23,249]

Yes I'd rather us play more like we did against Essendon than the hawks version.

What I'm saying is Carlton publicly embarrassed us and we never responded. I don't want to see us brawling but I think Neeld is yet to establish a basic hardness standard and this would be a great week to do it.

Look at Freo under Ross Lyon. He's there for one minute and everyone knows what is required.

I would implore Mark Neeld to make this round his statement on the toughness of Melbourne. If that means we go over the line to establish it then I'm fine with that.