Is the Malthouse (Neeld) Gameplan Untenable?

[Axis of Bob 10,283]

Pederson/Gillies?

Byrnes has played mostly as a forward hasn't he?

Ooops, forgot about them.

It shows that we have traded for big guys (Hogan being the only real youngster) while drafting runners. It makes sense, since it's so hard to accurately judge a tall skinny player at 17, but much easier to judge a midfielder at the same age.

[Hardnut 327]

Bailey/Connolly

Selective memory here I suspect!

[Hardnut 327]

You make your own luck Hardnut, Pies were a very good side in 2010/11 and were very unlucky not to go back to back. IMO we don't have nor have we ever had the cattle or the leadership to play the Geelong style.

Pies game plan with a bit of tweaking will also work. There is no set in concrete formula

You are kidding - remember Milne missing the ball - Pies would not have had one Flag! The Cats showed them up well and truly in 2011!

[Hardnut 327]

Ooops, forgot about them.

It shows that we have traded for big guys (Hogan being the only real youngster) while drafting runners. It makes sense, since it's so hard to accurately judge a tall skinny player at 17, but much easier to judge a midfielder at the same age.

Pedersen/Gillies are forgettable Bob - Byrnes is a good player, but not in a top club's best 22 which is why we were able to get him.

Hogan looks like a real gun - pity we can't play him now!

[Pennant St Dee 11,351]

You are kidding - remember Milne missing the ball - Pies would not have had one Flag! The Cats showed them up well and truly in 2011!

I am not kidding if you want to talk about selective memory, you can't use Milne without remembering Scarlett's toe poke in 2009.

Saints could have went back to back, history is full of could of!

Selective memory here I suspect!

Edited April 15, 2013 by Pennant St Dee

[Fat Tony 4,468]

Are you suggesting these 18 year olds are going to step in and address the leadership issue at the club?

Their 0 years in the AFL system would give us the boost we need to compete in 2013?

Not sure how your statement address our on field problems now

No. It was nothing to do with leadership. I just made the point that the focus of our recruiting has been on KPFs more so than the the midfield. Whilst we have drafted a lot of mids with low/rookie picks, most of our high picks have been spent on gorilla forwards.

[Hardnut 327]

I am not kidding if you want to talk about selective memory, you can't use Milne without remembering Scarlett's toe poke in 2009.

Saints could have went back to back, history is full of could of!

The difference is the Cats just keep coming back - when most people wrote them off because of retirements - and they are looking even better this year, although it is early days!

[Jerry Lundergard 390]

Our drafting in the Neeld era:

Midfielders/runners - Taggert, Tynan, Couch, Magner, Toumpas, Viney, Barry, Byrnes, Rodan, Kent, Jones, Terlich, Stark, Clisby

Everyone else - Sellar, Clark, Dawes, Hogan.

I would put it to you that there has been a strong focus on strengthening our midfield.

Why must everyone make assertions without providing evidence?

Sorry, but Viney is the only player there in that midfield group who I think is a definite A-Grade in the making, and who is that contested, first use ball winning midfielder that we lack.

The jury is out on a few of the younger players, and the older ones can't get a crack in the worst midfield in the league.

I like the picks of Clark and Hogan, but thought we could have used the Dawes pick on another ball winning mid. They don't always develop how you want them too, but you have to give yourself that opportunity.

Are we going to play Clark, Dawes and Hogan all in our forward line in 2 years time? Maybe we will. Maybe we will be too top heavy.

I would still prefer another A-Grade midfielder though, so unless one of those guys you mentioned suddenly becomes Simon Black over a preseason, I think we have taken the wrong course.

[Axis of Bob 10,283]

Are you saying that we tried to pick duds?

Your argument was that we clearly didn't focus on improving our midfield. This is absolutely false. Just because you don't think the players we recruited are good, doesn't mean that we didn't/aren't trying to improve it.

Are we going to play Clark, Dawes and Hogan in the same forward line? I would say absolutely yes, otherwise we wouldn't have recruited them.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

No. It was nothing to do with leadership. I just made the point that the focus of our recruiting has been on KPFs more so than the the midfield. Whilst we have drafted a lot of mids with low/rookie picks, most of our high picks have been spent on gorilla forwards.

Viney and Toumpas, ring any bells?

[DeeZee 6,805]

I think in recruiting the tall forwards, the main part of the plan would be to get it out of the centre and kick it long to the tall forwards.

If they miss the mark,then crumb the goal.

Problem is we can't get it out of the centre.

[Craig Drinker 179]

The biggest issue with Neeld may be his communication skills. Whatever he is selling, the players aren't buying!

[praha 10,308]

Offensive styles in ANY sport are far too vulnerable. Whether it's AFL, soccer, basketball, whatever, if you're playing an offensive style, you risk being absolutely smashed in transition if the opposition manages to get it out of defense.

This was the problem with Bailey's gameplan: his team tried to play a fast, quick brand of football, and sometimes it worked wonderfully, but other times it led to the ball going out even FASTER than it did going in, which created bottlenecks and eventually the entire team found itself in the defensive half in what could only be described as unintentional flooding.

Remember that Hawthorn game where they had a record-number of inside-50s in a quarter? It's because whenever we ran it out, they would just keep pushing down on the offensive flow and eventually the ball would get deeper and deeper into their forward line, and Melbourne's players would have to push deeper and deeper back.

It's the same in basketball: if you play a fast, offensive-minded game, you'll have amazing games where you're in a shoot-out with your opposition. But if you start missing shots, or hit a brick wall against the opposition, they'll score even FASTER on the fast break. They will smash the offensive team in transition.

Offensive football can very easily lead to unaccountable football, which is exactly what was Bailey's team's issue.

Neeld is trying to instill accountable and individual responsibility on the field, and the players can't make the transition yet.

I am all for going all-out offensive but imo it wouldn't help in the long-term: when/if this team gets up and running with any said style, it won't have the capacity to compete against defensive-minded teams like Sydney, or Geelong. It can't compete against them now, but at least, at the very least, the team is being taught a defensive style.

Everyone knows how to kick goals.

But not everyone can defend.

This, imo, is the philosophy behind Neeld's plan.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Cudi_420

[Craig Drinker 179]

I think in recruiting the tall forwards, the main part of the plan would be to get it out of the centre and kick it long to the tall forwards.

If they miss the mark,then crumb the goal.

Problem is we can't get it out of the centre.

Should the midfield coach be held accountable at the end of the day if we constantly get flogged out of the middle. What would be the midfield coaches accountabilities? What would they be judged on?

[dee-luded 2,958]

firstly we don't know if the gamestyles are the same or differ.

Malthouse hasn't had enough time to build his game into that bunch of blues, Yet.

They won't be ready for top 4,,, IMO, til next year.

Neeldy's game plan I don't think has been shown yet, except, as Nathan Jones said, was in the 2nd Qtr.

Gameplans Evolve, & I'm sure Neelds will as well, as we do.

[DeeSpencer 23,292]

Should the midfield coach be held accountable at the end of the day if we constantly get flogged out of the middle. What would be the midfield coaches accountabilities? What would they be judged on?

Centre clearances you'd think would be an easy way of predicting midfield coaches output. All be it in one facet. However the problem with Melbourne is how to you judge it with the players available. Jamar did a good job in the first half against West Coast then dropped off. Similarly Jones in the only top line midfielder we have in there.

Besides from that I'd like to see the coaches judged on what effort they can get from their groups.

Judging Royal on things like running patterns and ball movement might be harder because they are part of the overall plan.

Skill development could be one. Which young players can we get and turn in to Jones like hard at it inside midfielders. Could Matt Jones learn that? Or Michael Evans. I've given up thinking he can make Sylvia into the midfielder we'd all love him to be. Can he teach Toumpas the composure he needs to elevate his game pretty quickly.

[DemonWA 3,497]

This isnt regarding the overall 'game plan' but It seems to me our players are instructed to take on a would be tackler everytime, ensuring they keep thir arms free to get away a hand ball, so they dont get caught holding the ball. Now, on one hand i can see the logic, if the tackle doesnt stick they are away, and if the manage to get the ball to another one of our players then they have eliminated the player that is hanging around their waist. Downside is that the handball is generally not very good becasue it is effected by the tackle. Whats wrong with getting rid of the ball before you're tackled? Anyone else notice that our entire team, and defenders particularly, do this?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,498]

I'm a strong supporter of the principle of getting key position players first and adding mids later. Key position players take longer to develop and are harder to find. Mids are much easier to recruit. Hence, the concept of getting Clark, Hogan, Dawes (and Gillies) now and building a midfield later makes sense to me.

Whether it's by design or just luck, it's what Essendon has done over the last few years.

[Jerry Lundergard 390]

I'm a strong supporter of the principle of getting key position players first and adding mids later. Key position players take longer to develop and are harder to find. Mids are much easier to recruit. Hence, the concept of getting Clark, Hogan, Dawes (and Gillies) now and building a midfield later makes sense to me.

Whether it's by design or just luck, it's what Essendon has done over the last few years.

Essendon have one of the top 3 midfielders in the league, and maybe the top clearance player in Jobe. Viney might be our closest player to him and he's played 3 games.

The rest of the Bombers midfield is not that great, and is why they had to recruit Goddard into the fray.

If Jobe goes down, I can guarantee you the Bombers will struggle.

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Sorrry but I think the basic premise is flawed. It is simply dumb and poor coaching to introduce a gameplan totally unsuited to our playing stocks.

I'm stunned at the latitude given to Neeld against the bile which continues to be directed at DB. Face the facts. With a much younger list DB won 8.5 in 2010 and 7.5 up to his sacking in 2011.Neeld has been given all he's wanted--the power to appoint fitness staff, other coaches and even to get rid of players in favor of duds from other clubs. And he's achieved sweet f all. We have had a constant stream from Neeld of comment suggesting the fault all lies with DB and his admin. it's rubbish

We have an experienced, proven coach at MFC. Encourage MN to resign, appoint Craig until the end of 2012. If it happens next week there are 18 games remaining, the season may be in part saved. Otherwise the misery of it al and the financial disaster which follows, are inevitable.

[monoccular 16,281]

Not sure, but what Bailey was trying to develop was something similar to Geelongs, which has stood the test of time.

....and Daniher before him tried to imitate Brisbane / Essendone.

Just not the right time and place - no original thinking at our club since Norm (and maybe Northey).

[Weedster 174]

....and Daniher before him tried to imitate Brisbane / Essendone.

Just not the right time and place - no original thinking at our club since Norm (and maybe Northey).

Daniher took a completeltu under-resourced club into a Grand Final. I'll take that. We couldn't be further away from what he achieved now if we tried.

His achievements are underrecognised by many on this site.