THE WILSON FILE - the arrogance at the heart of the innuendo

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

The greatest crime that the MFC (Schwab) committed was not the strategy which believed that gaining round one draft picks would be a panacea, but a failure to develop what we had/have on our list during the period concerned.

We are now reaping what we sowed back then. That is the only thing Caro has got right.

[Whispering_Jack 28,009]

No I don't have time, my request was a vain hope for substance in place of more mystifying innuendo.

No more mystifying than the innuendo I read in posts from dozens of posters on Demonland and elsewhere every day including some of the pundits on this thread like your good self.

I made no judgement on anyone or any thing, nor any claim other than that the content makes interesting reading for those who have the time to search for the articles and read them.

They're all there in black and white and they form an interesting story - some of told by Wilson and some by others. Perhaps one day you or someone else will have the time.

Otherwise just try googling "Wilson", "Mifsud", "Davey". That might help you.

[MO FINE 146]

No I don't have time, my request was a vain hope for substance in place of more mystifying innuendo.

Why do people make comments like this if they're too bloody lazy to look things up themselves?

[old55 21,360]

No more mystifying than the innuendo I read in posts from dozens of posters on Demonland and elsewhere every day including some of the pundits on this thread like your good self.

I made no judgement on anyone or any thing, nor any claim other than that the content makes interesting reading for those who have the time to search for the articles and read them.

They're all there in black and white and they form an interesting story - some of told by Wilson and some by others. Perhaps one day you or someone else will have the time.

Otherwise just try googling "Wilson", "Mifsud", "Davey". That might help you.

How about you just paraphrase the "interesting story" for me.

[hardtack 10,127]

How about you just paraphrase the "interesting story" for me.

How about you make the time to get the story for yourself?

[Dr. Gonzo 22,520]

How about you make the time to get the story for yourself?

Cop-out.

[old55 21,360]

How about you make the time to get the story for yourself?

If anyone's interested in the Mifsud/Neeld controversy there was an interesting discussion on it in one of the tanking threads around mid January which contains some interesting links both by and about Caroline Wilson. Fascinating to read and even more fascinating to think that Caro had the whole story well before Grant Thomas wrote about it in his blog. The reason given as to why she didn't publish was because she didn't have sufficient corroboration. She later backed Mifsud to the hilt even after he offered his apology to Davey. The fact that the parties reached a mediated agreement put an end to any detailed investigation as to the source of the story but there are some clues in the articles written about the affair.

Very interesting stuff and a pointer to how informants can sometimes damage reputations in a very devious manner. Certainly, neither Melbourne nor Mark Neeld deserved that treatment.

I went to the Tanking thread that Jack himself started on 19 January - is that on tanking, mid-January and by the author enough for you?

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/32570-tanking/

and found no reference to Mifsud, Davey or Wilson when I scanned the first 6 pages.

I then did a search on the entire 130 page topic with the keyword "Mifsud" and got no results.

How about Jack alleviates the mystery and illuminatis us on the "interesting story" - or maybe you can do it on his behalf hardtack?

[hardtack 10,127]

How about Jack alleviates the mystery and illuminatis us on the "interesting story" - or maybe you can do it on his behalf hardtack?

Nah, I'm from the old school of thought that says if you want something done (well or otherwise), then do it yourself ;-)

[Pennant St Dee 11,324]

The greatest crime that the MFC (Schwab) committed was not the strategy which believed that gaining round one draft picks would be a panacea, but a failure to develop what we had/have on our list during the period concerned.

We are now reaping what we sowed back then. That is the only thing Caro has got right.

Very good point, the development was bad but the picks who were not body type to put on sufficient size and develop, their work rate was not the required level to succeed. Brock Mclean for all his faults was a good mid and another two years of Junior would have provided good leadership and culture to pass the baton at a time which would have been more appropriate.

Yes their is a problem with development but I think the likes of Bennell, Morton & Gysberts did not have the physical or make up or mental apptitude to become consistent performers at this level.

Maloney after last season was a no brainer he had to go but performed well for us prior to that, yes he had many faults and was a B grader at best but decent size at clearances. Had Mclean been kept and Junior been around till last year the midfield would IMO not be in the dire straits it is now. Viney is a great pick up but still a couple of years away from grabbing games by the scruff of the neck regularly, Trenners has many leadership qualities but his 1%ers mean little with the lack of quality mids we have, Jones is great but needs another good mid in with him.

We can all dream about picking up a Dale Thomas or out of contract star but we need to pick up two B grade mids from good sides who are on the fringe, similar to the Mcglynn/Kennedy Hawks scenario.

Freo, Adelaide, Brissy & Port would love to get their hands on Tom Boyd, I don't think GWS will take him so we need to make it happen should we finish 17th and in return we need mids ready to go from Round 1, also target 1 of GWS kids

[old55 21,360]

Nah, I'm from the old school of thought that says if you want something done (well or otherwise), then do it yourself ;-)

Jack disingenuously continues to post innuendo about alleged conspiracies against the club after saying he can't divulge the detail because the information is confidential. It's becoming clear what "Whispering" actually means.

[Whispering_Jack 28,009]

I went to the Tanking thread that Jack himself started on 19 January - is that on tanking, mid-January and by the author enough for you?

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/32570-tanking/

and found no reference to Mifsud, Davey or Wilson when I scanned the first 6 pages.

I then did a search on the entire 130 page topic with the keyword "Mifsud" and got no results.

How about Jack alleviates the mystery and illuminatis us on the "interesting story" - or maybe you can do it on his behalf hardtack?

Maybe it was the tanking thread from before that one. We had quite a few and now that I have you working, you should try a bit harder.

As for paraphrasing the story, thanks but no thanks. To get the most out of the story, it's best read by going through all of the source material.

Jack disingenuously continues to post innuendo about alleged conspiracies against the club after saying he can't divulge the detail because the information is confidential. It's becoming clear what "Whispering" actually means.

I know exactly where you're coming from and your last post is not only complete bullshit. It's a slur that I won't accept.

[MO FINE 146]

Someone gave a story about Mark Neeld and our indigenous players to someone else.

The telling of that story caused damage to a young coach, one of our players and to our club.

It got to the media, made headlines and an AFL employee eventually apologised to Davey.

It was discussed on television, radio and the print media.

How did it come about?

Spontaneous combustion; thin air.

Do people think otherwise?

Extraordinary.

Edited April 29, 2013 by MO FINE

[Whispering_Jack 28,009]

Someone gave a story about Mark Neeld and our indigenous players to someone else.

The telling of that story caused damage to a young coach, one of our players and to our club.

It got to the media, made headlines and an AFL employee eventually apologised to Davey.

It was discussed on television, radio and the print media.

How did it come about?

Spontaneous combustion; thin air.

Do people think otherwise?

Extraordinary.

Correct weight Mo.

I'm surprised that there are people who question that this was discussed on this forum even to the point of making fools of themselves by making the suggestion when they know that discussion will be discovered and placed before their eyes for the world to see.

[rpfc 27,531]

Your emotive chest beating only serves to prove my point further. You certainly dont have any access to the sources of her information. you seek to deride. As for Schwab he oversaw and was responsible for Club activities that lead to the Board accepting the 3rd largest fine in AFL history and suspension of two men under his control. He is responsible for his own downfall. he would have realised that when the AFL released its report to the club on tanking. Elements at the AFL and the MFC leaked extensively during the investigation and Wilson and other journalists reported those leaks.

You dont like what she writes then bully. Go wave your torch elsewhere.

No lynch mobs, RR. No flash mobs, no mobs with torches. Not even a flash dance mob.

Of all the emotive chest beating on this site, you would have to be the most derogatory, confrontation-loving, auger of dismissiveness on this site.

Now I know this will lead to superficial self-reflection and a dismissive response but nothing is as simple as you make it out to be.

Wilson didn't do her job properly, she gets criticised, that's the crux of it and no-one gets lynched.

[Slartibartfast 15,820]

My recollection is that Davey spoke with Misfud who told Thomas who put it in his blog. But it doesn't really matter. The event was a shocking one for Neeld at a difficult time.

But the prime responsibility for our current position rests with US, the Board, the admin and the FD. Faceless men and Caro have ammunition because of their failures. Those seeking to lay responsibility at people other than the prime participants are seriously missing the point.

We need a Club that starve Caro et al of oxygen, at the moment we are giving them a blast.

[rpfc 27,531]

My recollection is that Davey spoke with Misfud who told Thomas who put it in his blog. But it doesn't really matter. The event was a shocking one for Neeld at a difficult time.

But the prime responsibility for our current position rests with US, the Board, the admin and the FD. Faceless men and Caro have ammunition because of their failures. Those seeking to lay responsibility at people other than the prime participants are seriously missing the point.

We need a Club that starve Caro et al of oxygen, at the moment we are giving them a blast.

I thought that Davey denied the whole thing.

I also had 'word' (I know that people hate that) that the club believe Davey was not the spark of that story.

[old55 21,360]

I know exactly where you're coming from and your last post is not only complete [censored]. It's a slur that I won't accept.

Disingenuous: lacking in frankness, candour, or sincerity;

Your posting on this alleged conspiracy is lacking in both frankness and candour - two out of three is quite enough to satisfy the OR.

I'm coming from the growing school of either "put up or shut up" on the conspiracy theories - it's fine if you've got confidential information - then don't post about it.

[Whispering_Jack 28,009]

Disingenuous: lacking in frankness, candour, or sincerity;

Your posting on this alleged conspiracy is lacking in both frankness and candour - two out of three is quite enough to satisfy the OR.

I'm coming from the growing school of either "put up or shut up" on the conspiracy theories - it's fine if you've got confidential information - then don't post about it.

I'll deal with each of you lies one by one.

First, this is what I said about conspiracy theories:-

Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:46 PM - AFL investigation thread

I don't know why people are looking for big conspiracies when all you need is a few mischief makers who hold grudges against certain individuals to spread some malicious gossip or misinformation to the right people or, in the case of media interviews, simply point them in the right direction as far as asking questions to the interviewee is concerned.

I don't believe that anyone who supports the club ever intended that it end up in a tanking enquiry of the nature of the one that's evolved to the present day. If there was a motive it was simply to destabilise and embarrass the current board as we saw happen through 2012 and perhaps to prevent the renewal of someone's contract. Who knows with these things?

[Whispering_Jack 28,009]

The suggestion of a conspiracy is an emotive one which conjures up ideas of some grandiose plan and usually put forward by paranoid cranks. I never believed there was a conspiracy, nor did I claim one. Only TImD, Rhino and Fifty-50 maintain this.

[Whispering_Jack 28,009]

The lie about hiding behind "confidentaility" -

Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:41 AM on this thread

I've received a substantial amount of information from various people over the past 18 months about this issue (including one major source of information parts of which I need to respect some confidentiality over). I haven't accepted some of the things I've been told because they can't be checked.

One thing I ascertained was that before the old Board left power in the hands of the Stynes administration, they requested and received an agreement from the incoming Board to refrain from issuing any criticism of them - a non-disparagement agreement if you like - which has been confirmed to me by a former board member (the confirmation gave added credibility to my main source of information). In those circumstances, I find it disappointing that any former board member found it necessary to disparage the new board (even though they didn't sign a reciprocal agreement). But to suggest that there were no remaining rifts between the old and the new (whether it be board, administration or other employees) as a result of the many changes that have taken place is naive in the extreme.

I said above that there's a lot more to come out of this and in particular the connection between Wilson, those who "snitched" to the tanking enquiry and the sources of her "vault" story and other news stories that broke in 2011 and 2012 about our club. I believe that much of this emanated from some of the rifts I mention above. I will tell the full story in my own good time.

Do you really think that there is no such connection or that those recently in the employ of the club didn't know what Caro knew and what she didn't know?

I've told on this thread of how I was informed by a person whose version I accept as credible that the tanking enquiry was dead on its feet until a former employee of the club went to the inquisitors with his version of the "vault" story and that this triggered off the spate of publicity, including the infamous Caro articles of late October/early November, 2012. It wasn't known widely then but accepted now that three disgruntled former employees gave that evidence which conflicted significantly with the evidence of Bailey, Connolly and others. I didn't hide behind confidentiality in the telling of that or connecting it with information which Caroline Wilson obtained (and I'm assuming nobody is suggesting that she made it up. Certainly, there are posters on this site who have told that they know what Caro knew at the time and what the AFL knew and they're the ones keeping their information confidential. They're entitled to as I am to mine on the parts which I have promised to maintain confidentiality about. It hasn't prevented me from telling the story I set out to tell and I think it's fair to say that nobody disagrees with the fact that there were rifts among sections of the club which ultimately caused it damage.

[Whispering_Jack 28,009]

My recollection is that Davey spoke with Misfud who told Thomas who put it in his blog. But it doesn't really matter. The event was a shocking one for Neeld at a difficult time.

But the prime responsibility for our current position rests with US, the Board, the admin and the FD. Faceless men and Caro have ammunition because of their failures. Those seeking to lay responsibility at people other than the prime participants are seriously missing the point.

We need a Club that starve Caro et al of oxygen, at the moment we are giving them a blast.

[dees189227 10,832]

In defence of Caro when that Neeld. Davey and Misfud story was going a round at least she rang Mark herself to check it out unlike other media people who were quite happy to keep the rumour going and didnt check.

[Whispering_Jack 28,009]

My recollection is that Davey spoke with Misfud who told Thomas who put it in his blog. But it doesn't really matter. The event was a shocking one for Neeld at a difficult time.

But the prime responsibility for our current position rests with US, the Board, the admin and the FD. Faceless men and Caro have ammunition because of their failures. Those seeking to lay responsibility at people other than the prime participants are seriously missing the point.

We need a Club that starve Caro et al of oxygen, at the moment we are giving them a blast.

The above quote is exactly why I think people should read the source material on the Davey/Mifsud story and not rely one what someone like myself of BB says about it.

BB's recollection could only be accurate if he was in the room when Davey and Mifsud had such a discussion.

That might be the case but I don't think so - and the official explanation is substantially different, as is my understanding of the situation.

And, as I said earlier, Caro had the story (where the hell did she get it from?) but didn't run with it because she couldn't verify it. That's exactly why I say it's worth reading the articles to examine how her attitude changed as the story grew legs.

[Slartibartfast 15,820]

I thought that Davey denied the whole thing.

I also had 'word' (I know that people hate that) that the club believe Davey was not the spark of that story.

You may well be right, but unfortunately it's a side issue of no consequence when compared to the damage done to the club by our continued failure to be a credible football side.

The sideshow of Caro and the faceless men is a smoke screen to the real issues which can't be denied.

We're rubbish and this FD and administration is responsible.

[old55 21,360]

You're very adept at researching and quoting posts when they suit your purpose ...

I accept that you don't think there is a "conspiracy" but that there is "a few mischief makers who hold grudges against certain individuals to spread some malicious gossip or misinformation to the right people or, in the case of media interviews, simply point them in the right direction as far as asking questions to the interviewee is concerned" - that doesn't materially change the problem I have with your posting.

I never posted "hiding behind "confidentaility"" that is a lie all of your own making.

I said it was fine to have confidential information - just don't continually post about it until you are able to back up your innuendo - that is my entire point