What does the Grand Final tell us about Mark Neeld's Coaching

[H_T 2,941]

I felt that the Swans game massively vindicated Neeld's gameplan. Time after time, the Swans kicked down the line but they seemed to overdo it at times: the majority of clearances from defence at the city end seemed to go to the boundary in front of the player's race,

It was a very defensive mindset.

This defensive game might not be pretty but it obviously can win you a GF.

The best defence can win you Premierships.

Seems to be a common theme here.

[IRW 1,289]

No one should take any credit away from the Swans, Richards took a couple of crucial marks against Buddy in the last quarter, albeit on one leg and Smith's blanket on Rioli (7 touches) was a beauty.

Hell, how could you take credit away from the Swans.They played with Goodes as a walking miracle,Mumford with a hammy,Reid jabbed up,Jetta was limping in the second half...after he showed up Rioli in the sprint and baulking contests.

They beat the umpires,they kicked straight, layed incredible tackles all day...(collision sport remember) and Horse outcoached Clarkson on a ground that should have suited the Hawks.

It was a miracle the Hawks got so close....chokers..The only one I'd take without a second thought is Sewell

[old dee 23,082]

Hell, how could you take credit away from the Swans.They played with Goodes as a walking miracle,Mumford with a hammy,Reid jabbed up,Jetta was limping in the second half...after he showed up Rioli in the sprint and baulking contests.

They beat the umpires,they kicked straight, layed incredible tackles all day...(collision sport remember) and Horse outcoached Clarkson on a ground that should have suited the Hawks.

It was a miracle the Hawks got so close....chokers..The only one I'd take without a second thought is Sewell

You have to be kidding

The MFC finished effectively last with one win and you can only find one player from a GF finalist to join the MFC.

Honestly IRW go and make yourself a coffee and reflect on that statement.

[IRW 1,289]

You have to be kidding

The MFC finished effectively last with one win and you can only find one player from a GF finalist to join the MFC.

Honestly IRW go and make yourself a coffee and reflect on that statement.

theres plenty I'd take after that coffee and careful vthought but I'd start with Sewell without hesitation

[old dee 23,082]

theres plenty I'd take after that coffee and careful vthought but I'd start with Sewell without hesitation

You have restored my faith IRW

Have a good afternoon

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Wrong. Franklin lifted the entire team spirit and got the Hawks back into the game in the 3rd quarter. You did see this right?

Guys like Roughead and Gunston who let the team down at crucial moments are responsible, not Franklin. Clinton Young and Suckling also contributed little.

Franklin kicked 3 goals from 9 scoring shots. He is culpable for his critical errors. Had he kicked 5 or 6 instead he would have had a flag and a NSM. Hawks were too Buddy centric on the day.

[Biffen 12,441]

Hell, how could you take credit away from the Swans.They played with Goodes as a walking miracle,Mumford with a hammy,Reid jabbed up,Jetta was limping in the second half...after he showed up Rioli in the sprint and baulking contests.

They beat the umpires,they kicked straight, layed incredible tackles all day...(collision sport remember) and Horse outcoached Clarkson on a ground that should have suited the Hawks.

It was a miracle the Hawks got so close....chokers..The only one I'd take without a second thought is Sewell

Sewell lost he game.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

theres plenty I'd take after that coffee and careful vthought but I'd start with Sewell without hesitation

Every time I see Sewell I have a haunting vision of Ryan Ferguson. If it wwas true then I cant believe we did not make that trade happen.

[IRW 1,289]

Sewell lost he game.

Probably only you and Sewell himself think that.

Buddy on the other hand probably thinks he nearly won it himself and that umpire should have let him play on in the third quarter when he was trying to distract the bloke on the mark and that he should have had another go when he kicked it out on the full in the second.

Why?

Because one of them is an honest footballer and one of them thinks he's a bigger rock star than does Mick Rogers in his delusional momements......oops I meant Tim...he just gets himself mixed up with Jagger does our Tim......which is how Buddy prances around the ground as well .

Actually the Swans WON it, the Hawks didnt lose it......respect where its due

Edited October 1, 2012 by IRW

[My TD 156]

Actually the Swans WON it, the Hawks didnt lose it......respect where its due

I agree , they came off the ropes twice.

P.s. You were slow to start but appear to be warming to 'land now IRW.

Edited October 1, 2012 by My TD

[Maldonboy38 6,047]

In answer to the question posed in the topic, the Swans win in the Granf Final has very little to say to me about Mark Neeld's coaching.

He was not coaching a team on the day

Neither of the two coaches involved have been senior coaches to him as an assistant or mentors to him.

The Swans have a wonderful inner culture developed by Roos, now inherited and developed by Longmire. We deliberately tanked, pushed out long-serving leaders and went for youth which has not worked on any level. The inner health and status of the Swans comapred to us are poles apart.

Our team has not played one game remotely like the Swans or Hawks in Neeld's time.

Team performance is the best measure of a coach and at least 2013 will give us a clear idea if Neeld can coach. Two full preseasons and one failed home and away season have laid the foundation for Neeld to show us what he and his coaching group have.

[IRW 1,289]

I agree , they came off the ropes twice.

P.s. You were slow to start but appear to be warming to 'land now IRW.

Only because I'm at my best in the off season when its easy to disguise hookahs as footballs and meander around the place like a senile old (middle) class warrior

pps I love the edit function over here,its so much easier to use.I still would like a spell check but.

Edited October 1, 2012 by IRW

[Hardnut 327]

In answer to the question posed in the topic, the Swans win in the Granf Final has very little to say to me about Mark Neeld's coaching.

He was not coaching a team on the day

Neither of the two coaches involved have been senior coaches to him as an assistant or mentors to him.

The Swans have a wonderful inner culture developed by Roos, now inherited and developed by Longmire. We deliberately tanked, pushed out long-serving leaders and went for youth which has not worked on any level. The inner health and status of the Swans comapred to us are poles apart.

Our team has not played one game remotely like the Swans or Hawks in Neeld's time.

Team performance is the best measure of a coach and at least 2013 will give us a clear idea if Neeld can coach. Two full preseasons and one failed home and away season have laid the foundation for Neeld to show us what he and his coaching group have.

Some very good points here, but add a few more.

Throw in that the Hawks are grossly over-rated by the 'gen-y Hawks' media.

Also, the Geelong style of 'corridor' football has been the most successful in recent years. (Adelaide did pretty well this year with a similar style.)

The Grand Final was an interesting contest, but not good or attractive football.

The Hawks and Pies were lucky to win their Flags (and Sydney also) with poor football styles.

In the last two decades, both Brisbane and Geelong are the stand-out dominant teams, and both played attacking and attractive football!

[My TD 156]

Brisbane had the knack of hitting top form during September.

Not as dominant as the cats during the season.

[monoccular 16,483]

It tells us that Neeld knows that MFC has a sheet list and you cant change that overnight

Money alone wont get champions to a club like MFC,so he plans to develop a team that plays within its ability with ruthless commitment...like the Swans.

If he can do it then you'd say he's on the right track and the Swans victory shows its possible.

Spot on

One of the best TEAM efforts I have seen. No strutting "superstar" who can't kick straight from a set shot under pressure. Just a hard working TEAM who know they can rely on one another in a crisis.

Well done - emulate that and we will (well, most of us) all be happy here.

[Hardnut 327]

Brisbane had the knack of hitting top form during September.

Not as dominant as the cats during the season.

Yeah, Cats were usually dominant continuously. Lions 'knack' was a bloke named Keating!

[Hardnut 327]

Spot on

One of the best TEAM efforts I have seen. No strutting "superstar" who can't kick straight from a set shot under pressure. Just a hard working TEAM who know they can rely on one another in a crisis.

Well done - emulate that and we will (well, most of us) all be happy here.

What are you and IRW (your quote) talking about?

Playing as a team is obvious for any club, but you can't seriously be suggesting MFC copies the Swans! No disrespect to the Swans,but they are a very unusual football team and certainly not typical of long term successful AFL teams!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

The Grand Final was an interesting contest, but not good or attractive football.

The Hawks and Pies were lucky to win their Flags (and Sydney also) with poor football styles.

Could not disagree more with those comments.

Probably one of the best GFs in years which highlighted that Sept and GF football is all about pressure, continual contests. Unless its a blow out, a good GF is all about two teams fighting for territory and space to play.

Each side (Hawks, Collingwood and Swans) won by playing the most winnable gamestyle of football in their year.

In the last two decades, both Brisbane and Geelong are the stand-out dominant teams, and both played attacking and attractive football!

Brisbane and Geelong were stand out teams due to the calibre and breadth of talent of their respective teams (particularly their midfields). And for the record, Brisbane won in 2002 by playing gritty and defensive stopping football against a plucky and unlucky Collingwood.

No disrespect to the Swans,but they are a very unusual football team and certainly not typical of long term successful AFL teams!

Given they have not bottomed out like Geelong and Brisbane nor being blessed with amazing F/S picks, the Swans have contested 14 of the last 17 finals series competing in 4 GFs for 2 flags. There are a number of similarities amongst those successful teams. While the Swans should not necessarily be copied verbatim, there are clearly lessons to draw from them in regard recruitment of 2nd club players, player development and culture and leadership at the very least. There ability to transition their coaches leaves alot of other AFL clubs to shame.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

Every time I see Sewell I have a haunting vision of Ryan Ferguson. If it wwas true then I cant believe we did not make that trade happen.

Believe we tried to make it happen, but Ferguson was under contract and didn't want to leave.

At the time, Old55 had one of the best comments see non a forum after CAC came on and told us Ryan wasn't going anywhere. Old's response "you can say that again".

What made it better was so few seemed to pick up on it

[Hardnut 327]

Could not disagree more with those comments.

Probably one of the best GFs in years which highlighted that Sept and GF football is all about pressure, continual contests. Unless its a blow out, a good GF is all about two teams fighting for territory and space to play.

Each side (Hawks, Collingwood and Swans) won by playing the most winnable gamestyle of football in their year.

Brisbane and Geelong were stand out teams due to the calibre and breadth of talent of their respective teams (particularly their midfields). And for the record, Brisbane won in 2002 by playing gritty and defensive stopping football against a plucky and unlucky Collingwood.

Given they have not bottomed out like Geelong and Brisbane nor being blessed with amazing F/S picks, the Swans have contested 14 of the last 17 finals series competing in 4 GFs for 2 flags. There are a number of similarities amongst those successful teams. While the Swans should not necessarily be copied verbatim, there are clearly lessons to draw from them in regard recruitment of 2nd club players, player development and culture and leadership at the very least. There ability to transition their coaches leaves alot of other AFL clubs to shame.

A lot of very desperate comments there Rhino.

Certainly not 'one of the best GFs in years' - more of a rugby mauling match.

The teams I referred to played attractive, very watchable and enjoyable football, but still with a defensive capacity which turned beautifully into attack.

As for bottoming out, Sydney have massive AFL support, Brisbane had some admittedly, but Geelong?

Give me a team that showcases the skills of our game anyday - and if the rules are enforced to encourage it, we will see a much better brand of football.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

Geelong's success/luck with some father/son recruits led to such a distortion of the draft that the rules were changed

[Mick 1]

Just wow to people laying any sort of blame on Buddy. He was magnificent. One of the goals he kicked no other player in the league would have kicked. Another one you'd struggle to find a handful capable. His play around the ground fending off players. finding space, releasing a team mate etc. was just incredible, especially for a player of his size. The Hawks weren't too Buddy centric at all. If they got the ball out of the midfield more in the second quarter and gave him more chances he probably would have buried the Swans. Most of the game he was basically unstoppable and he was close to winning the Norm Smith in a losing team

[Dr. Gonzo 22,681]

A lot of very desperate comments there Rhino.

Certainly not 'one of the best GFs in years' - more of a rugby mauling match.

The teams I referred to played attractive, very watchable and enjoyable football, but still with a defensive capacity which turned beautifully into attack.

As for bottoming out, Sydney have massive AFL support, Brisbane had some admittedly, but Geelong?

Give me a team that showcases the skills of our game anyday - and if the rules are enforced to encourage it, we will see a much better brand of football.

So what was the best GF of the modern era? 2007? Such great skill on display, albeit from only one side! Pfft.

If you want skill go and watch a training session. If you want a great GF go and grab a copy of Saturday's game or the 2009 GF.

[Hardnut 327]

Just wow to people laying any sort of blame on Buddy. He was magnificent. One of the goals he kicked no other player in the league would have kicked. Another one you'd struggle to find a handful capable. His play around the ground fending off players. finding space, releasing a team mate etc. was just incredible, especially for a player of his size. The Hawks weren't too Buddy centric at all. If they got the ball out of the midfield more in the second quarter and gave him more chances he probably would have buried the Swans. Most of the game he was basically unstoppable and he was close to winning the Norm Smith in a losing team

Where is the relevance to this thread Mick?

If Buddy kicked more set shot goals, your post wouldn't be necessary anyway.

I'm guessing Buddy may just be one of the Hawks problems, looking ahead, but hell, as demons do we care?

[Dr. Gonzo 22,681]

I would love it if Melbourne was blessed enough to have a problem like Buddy. Much better than having problems like Bate, Davey, Petterd etc

Edited October 1, 2012 by Dr. Gonzo