Why P_Man?

To get something you have to give up something.

I would prefer to keep Martin however we have a poor list we finished effectively last with one real win.

There must be at least 12 - 15 players that are not good enough on our list.

We have to change some of these players this year and next year and the year after.

So get used to the fact a number of players on our list will leave in the next 3 years.

This is only year one.

Personally I think Martin still has alot more to offer both as an agile ruckman and as a tall forward. He adds some versatility to our list and is probably 12 months away from hitting his peak. I also accept the list needs to be turned over and he might be one that has to be sacrificed.

What I can't accept is that we give up him and Pick 13 in the super draft, for a horrendously out of form forward who may never find his radar again, and a nobody. That is the worst deal I've come across in some time, and there have been some doozies.

If Rivers does go I think it is worth playing Martin as a defender again. He is too uncoordinated to play forward and isn't damaging enough as a ruckman.

If Rivers does go I think it is worth playing Martin as a defender again. He is too uncoordinated to play forward and isn't damaging enough as a ruckman.

I think if we get a forward in Pederson or dawes then we can play Garland Mcdonald and Frawley down back for a start, give that Sheehan or Williams kid ar crack ect

And still have Clark - Dawes/Pederson ect up front, hopefully a fitter larger Fitzpatrick?

looks good

Edited October 5, 201213 yr by Jordie_tackles

Feel sad for Stefan. Poorly mismanaged and developed by the club perhaps more than others. Best to him wherever he goes.

Should we have mismanaged him differently?

Pick 13 and Martin for Dawes and Rounds is overs.

Keep it an

d draft Kennedy/Stringer/Garlett instead

Earlier reports indicated that Rounds was going to be delisted anyway.

i rate martin. Martin > dawes

pick 13 >rounds (pick 30 odd, played minimal games over a couple of years.......)

Earlier reports indicated that Rounds was going to be delisted anyway.

Rounds has been delisted as far as I know.

Keep pick 13.

Rounds has been delisted as far as I know.

sorry hadn't heard about this. If so, its fairly obvious we pick him up.........

Feel sad for Stefan. Poorly mismanaged and developed by the club perhaps more than others. Best to him wherever he goes.

Why don't you explain exactly how this occurred?

It's on the AFL trade updates site on Twitter.

you are not positing that source as being reliable are you? shurely not...

you are not positing that source as being reliable are you? shurely not...

No ....i did mention it was unconfirmed.

The source has got alot right so far this trade period.

Anyone suggesting using our pick 13 is off their face.

Ask yourself this: who is worth more?

Dawes?

Wellingham?

Currently collingwood want a late first round pick WCE first pick and wCE have offered a 3rd round pick.

So you would think that a second round pick will do it.

Keeping this in mind how can we trade pick 13 or even package up pick 13 and Martin for any of the players

Feel sad for Stefan. Poorly mismanaged and developed by the club perhaps more than others. Best to him wherever he goes.

Being poorly mismanaged may have been the problem. I think is better than being poorly managed and well mismanaged??

May have been been better if managed well but Not sure how his development was affected by this.

A too feel frustrated for and by him.

Should we let him go on and become another Darren Jolly used effectively by the Swans and the PIes?? or could we review our "culture" and make him aware of what is required to be part of a successful team/

Being poorly mismanaged may have been the problem. I think is better than being poorly managed and well mismanaged??

May have been been better if managed well but Not sure how his development was affected by this.

A too feel frustrated for and by him.

Should we let him go on and become another Darren Jolly used effectively by the Swans and the PIes?? or could we review our "culture" and make him aware of what is required to be part of a successful team/

WHOOPS meant "I too feel frustrated" etc

carry on

I like Stef.

Hes smart and hes pretty .Like me.

I bet he has a great year in 2013.

In 2011 he was awesome.

Cast your mind back to that year

It was also Jamars best year.

Spencer and Gawn have a lot of unco moments ahead of them.

Jamar and Stef have had most of theirs.

Try to remain on the reality bus.

We have come too far wtih Stef to trade him out.

Will be interesting. If the club does trade Martin it would only because they see Dawes or someone internally (Maybe Fitzpatrick?) playing that role next year.

They must have faith that Fitzy can be that forward/back up ruck

Being poorly mismanaged may have been the problem. I think is better than being poorly managed and well mismanaged??

May have been been better if managed well but Not sure how his development was affected by this.

A too feel frustrated for and by him.

Should we let him go on and become another Darren Jolly used effectively by the Swans and the PIes?? or could we review our "culture" and make him aware of what is required to be part of a successful team/

Well I may have mangled my words here but you get the point. His best qualities have been as a ruck/onballer and not as a jack of all trades and master of none. His ability to find the ball in congestion is rare for such a big man. He started his career on the half back flank. Stints forward and defence and later the ruck. But never allowed to settle in one position as afforded other more limited key position prospects. Always moved around to fill a hole because of his versatility every couple of weeks and during games also. Another prospect who's confidence has been destroyed by poor coaching and development. He will do well at a more professional club.

What some posters here seem to forget is that both Tim Harrington and Mark Neeld have said that they would ideally trade a pick like 13 for an established player or players. This is probably because you can only develop a certain number of young players at a time without becoming overwhelmed. We would still have to develop another 4-5 draft picks from this year, plus quite a few from last year and PSD and Rookie players drafted this year. Imagine the resources needed. Bringing in established players helps with that development process.

Well I may have mangled my words here but you get the point. His best qualities have been as a ruck/onballer and not as a jack of all trades and master of none. His ability to find the ball in congestion is rare for such a big man. He started his career on the half back flank. Stints forward and defence and later the ruck. But never allowed to settle in one position as afforded other more limited key position prospects. Always moved around to fill a hole because of his versatility every couple of weeks and during games also. Another prospect who's confidence has been destroyed by poor coaching and development. He will do well at a more professional club.

I tend to agree adc. If this thing goes sour, ironically it seems we may have been thwarted by our need for Stef to succeed. Our desperate shortage of key players for many positions has gone against us here. Another club with fewer gaps and a more narrowly defined need could develop someone like Stef into a valuable component of a team through some focussed effort. We seem to have stuffed up the delvelopment opportunity. He may not become a great player - who knows yet - but we're certainly not helping his cause so far.

Well I may have mangled my words here but you get the point. His best qualities have been as a ruck/onballer and not as a jack of all trades and master of none. His ability to find the ball in congestion is rare for such a big man. He started his career on the half back flank. Stints forward and defence and later the ruck. But never allowed to settle in one position as afforded other more limited key position prospects. Always moved around to fill a hole because of his versatility every couple of weeks and during games also. Another prospect who's confidence has been destroyed by poor coaching and development. He will do well at a more professional club.

Wasnt meant to be too critical coz I think I agree totally with you

I would prefer that he did well at our more professional club.

Posters are beating the club up over a player who has shown no improvement for 5 or 6 years.

I hope he gets traded - he is an average VFA player.

He just doesn't have the natural feel for the game, he has all the attributes but that isn't enough.

If he can get his head around the game he could be anything but I don't think he ever will.

If he can get his head around the game he could be anything but I don't think he ever will.

I could have been anything too, unfortunately I was nothing.

Stefan Martin was/ is a developing key position back, a useful backup ruckman and a pathetically inept forward!

If any mismanagement took place it was the brainiac that thought versatility is the be all and end all of all player development and as a result this situation ensued!

IMO I reckon we tampered too much and now find ourselves trying to manage our own ineptitude to develop players.

Stef Martin should by now have developed into a really good centre half back but alas he is tradebait.

Pity for all concerned!

If Collingwod are as interested in him as has been suggested I would love to know what they have in mind for him.

At Melb no one has been able to work out how his unique talents can be exploited and what role he should play. IMO he needs outside the box treatment. He should be an onballer with licence to go third man up and block with his size. And he will find a lot of the ball. His disposle is slick and quick close in.

I recall the game this Year when Jamar hurt his Ankle early and Stefan had to ruck alone for rest of the game. I saw the replay and Mick Malhouse was quite critical of him and offered plenty of advice. I got the impression Mick would love to have him under his wing and relish the challenge to make him a great fotballer.

Edited October 6, 201213 yr by america de cali