Both MD Picks?

[Guest AVB]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/145923/default.aspx

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Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs, which both hold compensation picks and will likely finish in the bottom four, are the clubs most strongly linked to this year's mini-draft.

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Melbourne is believed to be interested in securing both selections in the mini-draft, which would likely cost the club both of its prime NAB AFL Draft selections.

Complicating the Demons' situation is the bidding process for father-son selection Jack Viney, who is viewed by rival clubs as a genuine top-five draft pick.

Gold Coast hasn't been linked as strongly to the mini-draft in recent weeks, but the Suns could trump their rivals if they choose to put their No.2 pick on the table for Martin or Kelly.

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[rhaz 342]

[censored] that. Considering there is an argument about which players should get taken, it means they aren't at all locks to be guns. If there was an O'Meara in the bunch then sure, but it just doesn't seem that way. If we can get one cheaply (pick 13 and a player) then fine, but dont blow our picks 3 and 4.

[deeflog 679]

FFS we need players now, not in another 12 months time

do not go down this path Neeld and co

[olisik 4,060]

Dees love those skinny kids. Time to blow more good draft picks on skinny kids...

[King Kunta 97]

Josh Kelly is a jet I would prefer him over Martin, outsider who can get his own ball, runs all day and uses it extremely well. Is very skinny but plays a lot like Stephen Hill has that pace that we desperately need

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Josh Kelly is a jet I would prefer him over Martin, outsider who can get his own ball, runs all day and uses it extremely well. Is very skinny but plays a lot like Stephen Hill has that pace that we desperately need

Sounds like the write up on Cale morton as a under 18. No skinny kids for me. Hogan is the beast we are after.

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

FFS we need players now, not in another 12 months time

do not go down this path Neeld and co

We will get Viney and he is ready made, we may also some free agents plus other picks including 13 and we may pick up some mature ages late in the draft.

If these guys are better than who we might get in the draft at 3 and 4 then I am all for it. I really like the sound of Hogan, he is just the type we need.

[King Kunta 97]

Sounds like the write up on Cale morton as a under 18. No skinny kids for me. Hogan is the beast we are after.

Watch the kid play before comparing him to Cale, he is very balanced and has a huge aerobic capacity.

The modern day game is changing and the ability to spread hard into space is something the Dees haven't done all year. Have a look at Hawks and North play they have lots of leg speed and good ball users and thats how they cut you up rather than long balls 1 on 1 contests.

The Demons desperately need talented outside players with leg speed who can use it well and they wouldn't find any better than Kelly

[rjay 24,099]

Josh Kelly is a jet I would prefer him over Martin, outsider who can get his own ball, runs all day and uses it extremely well. Is very skinny but plays a lot like Stephen Hill has that pace that we desperately need

Sounds a lot like a Mathew Haynes who was a highly rated skinny 17 yo kid last year who Kevin Sheehan said had pace to burn also likened to Stephen Hill. Seems to have dropped back a bit this year,the phantom draft has him in the 50's at the moment. The point is you take a big risk with a 17yo unless he is an absolute stand out and even then...

[dazzledavey36 49,554]

as i said in the other thread why the hell would we waste to prime draft picks on skinny kids who we have to wait for another year! we need players asap like toumpas or wines who can step in straight away.

i know the club rates toumpas pretty highly so i hope they dont part those picksd away!

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

I hope we don't.

[King Kunta 97]

Sounds a lot like a Mathew Haynes who was a highly rated skinny 17 yo kid last year who Kevin Sheehan said had pace to burn also likened to Stephen Hill. Seems to have dropped back a bit this year,the phantom draft has him in the 50's at the moment. The point is you take a big risk with a 17yo unless he is an absolute stand out and even then...

Yeah valid point, O'Meara was clearly a rare talent, would have gone 1 or 2, and he was traded for pick 4. I wouldn't say any of this year's mini draft players are at his standard nor are certainties to be good things thus making me reluctant to give up 3 or 4 unless it guaranteed Viney went 2nd round

[King Kunta 97]

as i said in the other thread why the hell would we waste to prime draft picks on skinny kids who we have to wait for another year! we need players asap like toumpas or wines who can step in straight away.

i know the club rates toumpas pretty highly so i hope they dont part those picksd away!

You can't just ignore players because they are skinny, in fact the player you praise Toumpas is slightly built but I also agree would be a good get at 4, but if you think he's a big bullocker you're being mislead

[Biffen 12,443]

Dees love those skinny kids. Time to blow more good draft picks on skinny kids...

Were going for the waif look-it's sexy .

[Bonkers 918]

Watch the kid play before comparing him to Cale, he is very balanced and has a huge aerobic capacity.

The modern day game is changing and the ability to spread hard into space is something the Dees haven't done all year. Have a look at Hawks and North play they have lots of leg speed and good ball users and thats how they cut you up rather than long balls 1 on 1 contests.

The Demons desperately need talented outside players with leg speed who can use it well and they wouldn't find any better than Kelly

The reason the Hawks, Swans, Pies etc are so good is because of their clearance players. Their teams are all built around having ball winning ability. Its a bit like developing a strong engine. Outside running players are really the finishing touches to the players who are extracting the pill. If we go down the path of recruiting skinny running types with quality picks in this draft I will hold no hope for the club. We are in desperate need of classy players who can get their hands on the footy first. We need players like Mitchell, Swan, Sewell, Watson, Kennedy etc before we worry about using high draft picks on outside class. Viney is just one player, I believe we need a couple more to compliment him. The club should draft outside players/runners with later picks & also through free agency.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

It would make more sense to nab a couple of players from GC, given that they need to cull their list.

Caddy and Dixon would be nice.

[Guest Rassilon]

Fantastic positive article for us. More like this please boys.

[King Kunta 97]

The reason the Hawks, Swans, Pies etc are so good is because of their clearance players. Their teams are all built around having ball winning ability. Its a bit like developing a strong engine. Outside running players are really the finishing touches to the players who are extracting the pill. If we go down the path of recruiting skinny running types with quality picks in this draft I will hold no hope for the club. We are in desperate need of classy players who can get their hands on the footy first. We need players like Mitchell, Swan, Sewell, Watson, Kennedy etc before we worry about using high draft picks on outside class. Viney is just one player, I believe we need a couple more to compliment him. The club should draft outside players/runners with later picks & also through free agency.

Yes clearances are important but the difference between the clearances the top teams get compared to say a Melbourne clearance is that they use handballs to get it to outside leg speed rather than a quick kick out of congestion. On top of that Melbourne already has Jones, Gysberts, Trengove, Mckenzie, Magner as ball winners yet they normally just slam it on the boot rather than giving it to somebody running by.

Also the main source of scoring these days are from turnovers rather than clearances. Which is through fitness and leg speed enabling the extra link up man for the one over the top, something North does extremely well juxtaposed by Melbourne who only ever seem to go long down the line to a contest.

[Bonkers 918]

Yes clearances are important but the difference between the clearances the top teams get compared to say a Melbourne clearance is that they use handballs to get it to outside leg speed rather than a quick kick out of congestion. On top of that Melbourne already has Jones, Gysberts, Trengove, Mckenzie, Magner as ball winners yet they normally just slam it on the boot rather than giving it to somebody running by.

Also the main source of scoring these days are from turnovers rather than clearances. Which is through fitness and leg speed enabling the extra link up man for the one over the top, something North does extremely well juxtaposed by Melbourne who only ever seem to go long down the line to a contest.

I would argue the difference is often the quality of possession or decision making of the player who wins the clearance. As well as the positioning of the players around him. Yes outside leg speed can be important, however you can win finals or stay in them by having players that will win/control the stoppages.

You could also argue that we arent scoring from turnovers due to our kicking inefficiency. I'm not saying we don't require running players. I'd prefer the team be built around quality midfielders first then worry about adding the finishing touches later.

[rolly 149]

First step to scoring is getting your hands on the ball and step 2 is keeping it...we could use winners everywhere but especially mid and forward.

I think we pretty much have our backline just needs time and preseasons.

Equally i think with the injection of viney our inside mids are largely set just need improvement

seems to be our running players that are lacking...who other than blease sylvia jones runs thru the 50 and kicks running goals

[The Chazz 4,077]

I don't understand why everyone is relying heavily on the Free Agency to get us the player we want. FA isn't a free for all, there are certain players that are eligible, and looking at the list of them, I'm not overly enthused by a massive majority of them.

And I also don't understand why Gold Coast would give up Pick 2 in this year's draft for Pick 1 in the MD (especially considering it will mean GWS have Picks 1 & 2 in the main draft), just so they can take a punt on a 17 year old that is far from a standout (in the same cateogry as O'Meara).

[Hannibal 5,814]

I find myself agreeing with opposing camps on this thread. Basically we need a mixture of everything. Our current inside mids, save for Jones, are simply not good enough; and we desperately lack pace on the outside. It's about finding the right balance.

In my opinion the best players at most clubs, outside of gun key position players, are their big bodied inside mids. But how many do you need ? Essendon have only Watson and clearly that isn't enough and Adelaide have Thompson and Dangerfield and they're top 4. Hawthorn have Mitchell and Sewell and they're top 2, while Sydney have Kennedy and Jude Bolton doing the grunt work complimented by other excellent contested ball winners in Jack, McVeigh, Hannebery, etc.

So I agree that there's a need for quality big bodied mids, but we also need mids that can spread with hurt factor. Viney is a big bodied quality inside mid and will be ours, but ideally we need another. But you can't necessarily solve all of your ills in one draft. I'm going to assume that we get Viney in the second round and if so I'd like Toumpas, but if he's gone by pick 4, which appears likely, I'd go for O'Rourke. O'Rourke is a contested ball winning inside mid with pace, smarts, and a great kick. At AFL level he'd play outside, so he offers a great combination to a club like Melbourne. He'll win contested footy, but also provide class on the outside. If it was a choice between O'Rourke and Wines I'd choose the class of O'Rourke. Wines is a bigger bodied inside mid, but he doesn't have the class of O'Rourke. It will be interesting what we do with pick 13. Stringer may be there and he'd be that second bigger bodied mid who also goes forward and kicks goals. But Kennedy, Menzel, or Garlett may also be there and they provide more outside class.

I do want us to trade pick 3 for a mini-draft selection and choose Hogan, but I'd prefer not to trade both picks for a mini-draft selection, but ultimately I have to back the club. I have no doubt that Kelly will be a gun and have no concern about his body size. As I said, it's about finding the right balance.

[Brayshaw Self 847]

Most clubs have inside players that spread more than our outside players and also some outside players that can win more contested ball than most of our inside players. We need to draft/trade for/use free agency to bolster both aspects but just as importantly, we need to develop the players we have, which can be fast-tracked by gaining an experienced gun mid (like Judd at Carlton) and midfield coach. I think we have a few inside mids already that are capable of excelling in Trengove, Gys, Jones, Sylvia in stints so I wouldn't have a problem drafting a skinny kid or two, but I think we need to bring in an experienced and talented midfield coach and player.

[olisik 4,060]

We should be in the ear of Toby Greene imho

[olisik 4,060]

The Tigers have key players Trent Cotchin, Dustin Martin, Jack Riewoldt and Tyrone Vickery coming out of contract next year.

Next year is a gold mine.