Contract discussions put on hold for eleven Demons

[Range Rover 1,935]

Bit of clutching at straws going on here I think.

Definitely.

[Hardnut 327]

Definitely.

Good to see we agree on something as well as MFC!

[PaulRB 6,297]

I think a story in The Age that mentions Gyberts' next contract being on hold till Oct and potential interest in him from Geelong (which, no doubt, they did not confirm) COMBINED with him being omitted from the team is no coincidence and the thread logic is sound, it indicates at least a number of things...

Gys and co just received a huge rocket (a "Howler" as those of the Potter generation would say) from the club. Simple message: not good enough.

The sub plots

1. bit of pre-trade period advertising to suss out the possibilities and get the deal talk started...

2. acknowledging those players that are comfortably signed up (Jones, Evans, Howe) and are performing.

3. letting us folk in the stands know that years like this one will not be tolerated anymore, and that change is afoot.

4. Letting Cloak, Boak and other prospective player targets know we are serious about moving up the ladder.

5. Getting on the front foot and feeding the media stories the MFC want, rather than having certain knobs in the media fill the vacuum with stories about tanking, early retirements and how woeful our footy has been this year.

Looking forward to the Saints game.

Edited August 10, 2012 by PaulRB

[Robot Devil 1,895]

When it comes to players coming or going:

Is it important to you that the players we have now win a premiership or that the MFC wins a premiership?

We may have to trade the former to get the latter.

[PaulRB 6,297]

You forge steel by burning off the impurities.

This trade period and draft are Neeld first real moment with the bellow and hammer.

I trust that they will forge a team that will contend for a flag.

I doubt they could do this without turning over at least six to eight players on the current list this year.

Edited August 10, 2012 by PaulRB

[Guest José Mourinho]

Actually, they appointed G.Lyon to appoint M Neeld who previously failed when appointing D. Bailey.

Nice culture.

Sorry?

Ignoring who incredibly wrong you are, do you just "support" this club so you can complain about every single thing about it?

Do you just like the name, and hate every person involves with it and every decision they make?

What makes you waste your energy on it?

What would make you happy?

(and to blindly say "winning" or a "winning culture" is not an answer - it'll just show how shallow your understanding is)

You come across as an enigma trapped inside an imbecile.

[old55 22,880]

I doubt it came from a player manager as they probably wouldn't know all the detail of all the players named.

If it came from the coach/club, then why not say so if that's what they believe, and why not give it to all the media outlets if it helps the club?

Bit of clutching at straws going on here I think.

Jetta and Cook - both out of contract aren't anywhere on Niall's list.

If the info came from the club why would they be missing?

Far more likely to have come from a player manager who manages a number of the players and talked to other managers about the situation and filled in some of the gaps.

[tonatopia 278]

Sorry?

Ignoring who incredibly wrong you are, do you just "support" this club so you can complain about every single thing about it?

Do you just like the name, and hate every person involves with it and every decision they make?

What makes you waste your energy on it?

What would make you happy?

The reasons why I am questioning the decision making;

Firstly, it disgusts me that players like Moloney can even be considered to be traded.

Secondly, I am dumbfounded but the constant mistakes that are being made by decisions makers, eg, Bailey over Sheedy, Cook over Darling, Neeld over Malthouse, P.Gardner as President, for example.

Thirdly, The thought that we have to go thru another 4 year rebuild.

Fourth, that many supporters just accept this shite and actually have blind faith in the process.

Who is being made accountable for the state we are in. WHO?

And now we are blaming the players for our woes.

I wasnt born yesterday, and it seems that people at high levels at the club and now getting desperate, so now a player cull is on the cards, in an effort to free up some space and money so we can purchase some mercinaries in an effort to salvage something.

How am I meant to feel?

Or do I just blindly believe in the brains trust?

I, and many others are justified in expressing our somewhat 'defiant' point of view.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Working for an amateur organization.

You will like Neeld then...

[BLWNBA 751]

I haven't been reading a lot of threads on here, but why are people going on the assumption that we're going after Chapman?

[Dr. Gonzo 23,775]

I doubt it came from a player manager as they probably wouldn't know all the detail of all the players named.

If it came from the coach/club, then why not say so if that's what they believe, and why not give it to all the media outlets if it helps the club?

Bit of clutching at straws going on here I think.

It's already August - its not too much of a stretch to conclude that 11 players out of contract at the moment won't have their contracts negotiated until after the FA period (especially considering who is on that list on the widespread belief there will be wholesale changes at the end of Neeld's first year.)

What would the club have to gain from leaking this? Hell it could just be the usual media speculation that they throw up when they need to fill column inches.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Dr. Gonzo

[Range Rover 1,935]

The reasons why I am questioning the decision making;

Firstly, it disgusts me that players like Moloney can even be considered to be traded.

Secondly, I am dumbfounded but the constant mistakes that are being made by decisions makers, eg, Bailey over Sheedy, Cook over Darling, Neeld over Malthouse, P.Gardner as President, for example.

Thirdly, The thought that we have to go thru another 4 year rebuild.

Fourth, that many supporters just accept this shite and actually have blind faith in the process.

Who is being made accountable for the state we are in. WHO?

And now we are blaming the players for our woes.

I wasnt born yesterday, and it seems that people at high levels at the club and now getting desperate, so now a player cull is on the cards, in an effort to free up some space and money so we can purchase some mercinaries in an effort to salvage something.

How am I meant to feel?

Or do I just blindly believe in the brains trust?

I, and many others are justified in expressing our somewhat 'defiant' point of view.

The bit that you keep getting wrong is the "and many others" part. 98% of people are prepared to give Neeld a fair go. It's just you and a couple of noisy mates.

The man is contracted for three years. Why can't you just wait until the end of his second year before you make an assessment?

It's like you're afraid he'll be successful.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,775]

The reasons why I am questioning the decision making;

Firstly, it disgusts me that players like Moloney can even be considered to be traded.

Secondly, I am dumbfounded but the constant mistakes that are being made by decisions makers, eg, Bailey over Sheedy, Cook over Darling, Neeld over Malthouse, P.Gardner as President, for example.

Thirdly, The thought that we have to go thru another 4 year rebuild.

Fourth, that many supporters just accept this shite and actually have blind faith in the process.

Who is being made accountable for the state we are in. WHO?

And now we are blaming the players for our woes.

I wasnt born yesterday, and it seems that people at high levels at the club and now getting desperate, so now a player cull is on the cards, in an effort to free up some space and money so we can purchase some mercinaries in an effort to salvage something.

How am I meant to feel?

Or do I just blindly believe in the brains trust?

I, and many others are justified in expressing our somewhat 'defiant' point of view.

Look you have every right to be concerned and even angry - I sure as hell am about certain things at the club. But at the end of the day I am a SUPPORTER not an agitator.

Firstly let's knock one fallacy on the head - we didn't choose Neeld over Malthouse, it was and has been made abundantly clear that Malthouse was never an option, never wanted to come to the club and if he was available we would have picked him.

Secondly you talk about going after mercenaries - is Clark a mercenary? Are you happy he's a Demon and that we recruited him last year?

Thirdly you say we as supporters shouldn't take this shite - what do you expect us to do. Yes the board/admin should be held accountable but short of launching a ticket to run for the board/president position what do you propose the lay supporters do? Do you really think the heavies behind the scenes are happy with how the club has performed the last 6 years. We all want one thing - for the MFC to succeed and at the moment the only way we can do that is to be united behind the board/admin and coach. They may fail but we have to at least give them a go. Make no mistake another year in 2013 like weve seen in 2012 will put considerably heat on the whole club and everyone within. No point destabilizing them now though it will only hurt the MFC.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Dr. Gonzo

[old55 22,880]

It's already August - its not too much of a stretch to conclude that 11 players out of contract at the moment won't have their contracts negotiated until after the FA period (especially considering who is on that list on the widespread belief there will be wholesale changes at the end of Neeld's first year.)

What would the club have to gain from leaking this? Hell it could just be the usual media speculation that they throw up when they need to fill column inches.

If the info did come from the club it may have been planned - it's consistent with the 100% Melbourne campaign to raise funds for a massive tilt at FA - show supporters we're serious about this.

[Demonland 70,373]

I've just posted an article Whispering Jack on the Drafting and Trading Board that's relevant to this discussion:-

RECRUITING LESSONS FROM THE PAST: ENDING PURGATORY?

[Hannibal 5,814]

Our error is that we have killed our offensive flair. Don't blame the players, blame the gameplan.

For perhaps obvious reasons I'm choosing to reply to you, but it's more a general post about AFL development.

I keep reading that one of our major issues has been our lack of development and while I believe there's some truth in that I also believe that it's been exaggerated. If something is pedaled vigorously enough on these forums it starts to grow legs of its own. I believe that there are three major reasons why young players step into Geelong's, Hawthorn's or Collingwood's teams and seemingly fit in straight away. They're usually not rushed, i.e. they've knocked the door down in the VFL; the entire list is in sync with the club's game-plan; and they have quality senior players directing and giving them confidence out on the field. If many of those same young players were presently at Melbourne their output may be different. They may do better than some of our young, depending on their talent levels, but it wouldn't be the same.

Another important factor to consider is our poor recruiting. Some supporters seem to think that it's not the players; it's either the coach, the game-plan, or the club's poor development programs. I agree that it takes at least a year for players to come to grips with a new game-plan and in our case it's exacerbated by the poor fitness base of many of them, but in the main I doubt many in the football industry would disagree that we lack talent. Having a very young group is also a key factor.

All clubs get it wrong in the draft. At Hawthorn, top 10 draft pick Mitch Thorpe is no longer running around and fellow early pick Beau Dowler is playing in the VFL, and no longer on Hawthorn's list. Another Beau, in Beau Muston, was a top 25 pick and starred on his debut against Melbourne with 31 possessions. After 13 games he's no longer at the club. Can Hawthorn develop talent ? Yes, but they too can get picks wrong. They recruited Melbourne's Paul Johnson and Kyle Cheney, but one is gone and the other isn't a first choice best 22 despite their development programs.

The Eagles recruited a discarded top draft 10 pick in WA's Jarrod Oakley-Nicholls. Where Richmond couldn't develop his talent surely West Coast could ? Wrong. He's out the door and so is another first round key forward in Tony Notte.

What recent poorly developed Melbourne player has left us only to embarrass us ? Well it hasn't been Brock McLean, or Chris Johnson at Carlton; Simon Buckley is getting games at Collingwood, but go on to their boards and ask about him; it hasn't been High Tower, or Cheney at Hawthorn; it hasn't been Miller, or Maric at Richmond. Scotty Thompson left, but we were all gutted, as we knew he could play. And how did we know that ? He had talent.

As I said, I'm not trying to understate the importance of development, but give me talent and I'll show you a player. To maximise his talent, you want good coaches, a strong fitness base, a strong senior group, and a well drilled team where everyone knows their role like the back of their hand. Lots of things go into developing players, but to assume that all our young players are guns and that we just don't get the best out of them is a croc. Tom McDonald is doing really well, Howe is working hard and improving, Nathan Jones is having his best year, Mitch Clark was clearly enjoying the new environment and with another season of hard fitness work and familiarity with Neeld's game-plan/expectations I'm sure other young players will also come to the fore.

We do have some decent talent on our list, but not nearly enough; and yes, we've had a rough trot with some unlucky injuries to young players. But in the main we just haven't got it right at the draft table. We get another chance this year and Neeld and Misson get another 6 months in the preseason to make what I expect to be significant inroads. I hope the players have more resolve than some of our posters.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[tonatopia 278]

Look you have every right to be concerned and even angry - I sure as hell am about certain things at the club. But at the end of the day I am a SUPPORTER not an agitator.

Firstly let's knock one fallacy on the head - we didn't choose Neeld over Malthouse, it was and has been made abundantly clear that Malthouse was never an option, never wanted to come to the club and if he was available we would have picked him.

Secondly you talk about going after mercenaries - is Clark a mercenary? Are you happy he's a Demon and that we recruited him last year?

Thirdly you say we as supporters shouldn't take this shite - what do you expect us to do. Yes the board/admin should be held accountable but short of launching a ticket to run for the board/president position what do you propose the lay supporters do? Do you really think the heavies behind the scenes are happy with how the club has performed the last 6 years. We all want one thing - for the MFC to succeed and at the moment the only way we can do that is to be united behind the board/admin and coach. They may fail but we have to at least give them a go. Make no mistake another year in 2013 like weve seen in 2012 will put considerably heat on the whole club and everyone within. No point destabilizing them now though it will only hurt the MFC.

I appreciate you thoughtful response.

Clarke wanted out of Brisbane and we lured him here, which I think was a great move. A don't think he is a mercinary.

Cloke on the other hand, he just wants the cash. He couldnt give a toss about MFC, so we shouldnt give a toss about him. Pure Mercinary if he leaves the Pies. Bad Karma for us aswell.

We should be targeting recruits from GWS, bringing Victorian boys back home. We have a few players we can offer up, Bate, Dunn, Pick 3 & 4. It would also be very theraputic. Imagine if we could snare Corniglio.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

We have a few players we can offer up, Bate, Dunn,

We should package up Petterd and Morton and make the deal completely irresistible to GWS. What a tempting showbag.

[Johnny Karate 559]

Rhino, you forgot Joel Macdonald too! GWS need key defenders. We love Coniglio co's he's a Victorian

[The Lobster Effect 879]

I haven't been reading a lot of threads on here, but why are people going on the assumption that we're going after Chapman?

its just wishful thinking, no chance anyway.

[dpositive 1,654]

Hmm, seems like any FA's we may sign would be offset by any FA's we lose (so if we sign Cloke and lose Moloney we would probably get nothing.)

Here is the article;

I find the use of FA a useful intellectual journey

would you get a FA for FA or perhaps pay FA for a FA Are all FA's FA are any FA's FA

Dont need any assistance with this conundrum can enjoy the self analysis or delusion.

[Hardnut 327]

The bit that you keep getting wrong is the "and many others" part. 98% of people are prepared to give Neeld a fair go. It's just you and a couple of noisy mates.

The man is contracted for three years. Why can't you just wait until the end of his second year before you make an assessment?

It's like you're afraid he'll be successful.

You have just shown your absolute ignorance of statistical analysis, which may explain many of your views RR.

A lesson in poll stats for you - from your own poll, it's apparently 98% of people who responded to a biased question, as you have been told a number of times. It is not 98% of people as you claim - stop trying to impose your own views and falsely claiming such support for them.

[Hardnut 327]

Jetta and Cook - both out of contract aren't anywhere on Niall's list.

If the info came from the club why would they be missing?

Far more likely to have come from a player manager who manages a number of the players and talked to other managers about the situation and filled in some of the gaps.

Maybe, but it's stretching credibility.

[Hardnut 327]

It's already August - its not too much of a stretch to conclude that 11 players out of contract at the moment won't have their contracts negotiated until after the FA period (especially considering who is on that list on the widespread belief there will be wholesale changes at the end of Neeld's first year.)

What would the club have to gain from leaking this? Hell it could just be the usual media speculation that they throw up when they need to fill column inches.

Could be, but the detail is specific and apparently not the usual speculative exercise, and the timing and selection of club to use is interesting.

[DemonOX 8,712]

About bloody time this happened.

Once again the trading period will be more interesting than the footy season. So sad.