On the Couch - Brock talks about 'tanking'

[old dee 22,854]

Lets not rewrite history. There is one reason and one reason only why Brock went to Carlton, we refused to give him a 3 year contact at $400000.00 per year. Carlton gave it to him and we wouldn't. He had come off another injury and his form wasn't great. That's right, hard to believe when a club like Carlton is involved, they gave him the money and he left. They offered us pick 11 and we grabbed it. Now lets not say it was for any other reason as if we had antied up the dollars he would have stayed.

PS. On another note I think Sheahan's constant criticism of us and his description of the "club" as pathetic and disgraceful is the worst piece of journalism ever seen and he should be ashamed of himself. I go further, I would publicly state that he is not welcome and to hell with the consequences.

Sorry Redleg but I think a lot of what he says is correct we are pathetic, have been for 5 years and every chance we will be in 2013.

You cannot argue with the results.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

I thought this speccy git sheahan retired

[Mac7 309]

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=143079

[jumbo returns 6,488]

lol and a bit [censored] ! but thats how i feel , ok

Love your passion!

[Mono 454]

He has no contract at Carlton and I thought the interview would focus more on that but they really blew over it.

At the very end, they wished him good luck for a new contract. Aint gunna happen; the lad's been used. More fool him (unless he got a sock of $s to appear on the show. )

[Redleg 37,604]

Ed. FWIW I rate McLean as a straight up guy/player. gave $10k to the club debt reduction FFS. BUT, he won't be at carlton next year, none the less.

Yes he will.

[old dee 22,854]

We cannot compete with the top 8 teams....yet!

The draft will be bloody important, but so will another preseason where players will need to step up or get out.

Jonesy is responding, Howe is responding, Tommy Mac is responding, Chip has been unbelievable this year (considering all the inside 50s!) Watts has developed poise and has become a leader down back, Blease is a lot of fun and the two skips will work out.

Our job is not to white ant, but to support.

This nowhere near makes up for constant 10 goal losses.

Afraid I have run out of support jr

I want action nothing else matters I have had all the talk I can handle

[Redleg 37,604]

Sorry Redleg but I think a lot of what he says is correct we are pathetic, have been for 5 years and every chance we will be in 2013.

You cannot argue with the results.

My post is about the insinuation that McLean left because we tanked. He bloody didn't, it was money and nothing else.

[Redleg 37,604]

Yeah don't rewrite history. Apologist.

Who am I apologizing for? Read post 84.

[old dee 22,854]

My post is about the insinuation that McLean left because we tanked. He bloody didn't, it was money and nothing else.

Don't disagree with that part.

I was referring to Sheahan.

[diesel 420]

Such hand wringing! Get a grip ppl. Clubs have been effectively tanking since they realised the importance of the draft 10 or 15 years ago. There is hardly a club that hasn't had a priority pick primarily through resting players at the end of the year when those at the top of the ladder were giving their best players jabs to get them through.

Then there are the other forms of sanctioned cheating, the father son picks, priority zones, expanded salary caps. Roos club was/is the beneficiary of two of these.

It's true that Melbourne have stuffed it up (the draft picks) but guess what? We would be worse off without them.

Roos can bang on all he likes about the MFC not standing for anything because we stand for the MFC whereas the club he deserted is dead and buried.

Edited July 30, 2012 by diesel

[jumbo returns 6,488]

This nowhere near makes up for constant 10 goal losses.

Afraid I have run out of support jr

I want action nothing else matters I have had all the talk I can handle

And we will get action.

At the moment, we're not up to AFL standard - admitting this is the 1st step to redemption and Neeld is no shrinking violet in this department.

[Hannibal 5,814]

At the time tanking was the right move, but we didn't know that Prendergast was a double agent.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

As an aside, I don't think that interview helped Brock's chances of getting picked up by the Dees in the PSD later this year.

He may come to regret that. Took the bait nicely when it was put to him by that man of absolute integrity, Mike Sheahan, who seemingly used Brock as a stalking horse on this topic.

As critical as I am about those years (essentially from a recruiting and overall list strategy perspective), I never formed the view that the intention underlying what the club was seeking to achieve was anything but to ensure future success.

In retrospect, it now seems a naive approach - but it's another thing altogether to suggest it was fraudulent.

And coming from someone who skipped the coop to go to Carlton - that's bloody rich. In fact, it's just historical revisionism.

And just to jog everyone's memory about the Kreuzer/Judd Cup - the initial post sums up the picks Carlton stood to gain from losing this game: http://demonland.com...elb-vs-carlton/

Thanks Bomber Riley. Thank you very much.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

At the time tanking was the right move, but we didn't know that Prendergast was a double agent.

Nor Bomber Riley.

[diesel 420]

Thanks Bomber Riley. Thank you very much.

It's easy to forget that before the clean out that we were truely horrible that year and effectively handed a win we didn't neccesarily deserve, which pushed us back in the draft. WTH this is an issue only around the MFC has me miffed. Perhaps the journos are worried a Carlton supporter will try to strangle them if the mention Kreuzer or Judd?

Edited July 30, 2012 by diesel

[Wells 11 4,744]

As an aside, I don't think that interview helped Brock's chances of getting picked up by the Dees in the PSD later this year.

He may come to regret that. Took the bait nicely when it was put to him by that man of absolute integrity, Mike Sheahan, who seemingly used Brock as a stalking horse on this topic.

As critical as I am about those years (essentially from a recruiting and overall list strategy perspective), I never formed the view that the intention underlying what the club was seeking to achieve was anything but to ensure future success.

In retrospect, it now seems a naive approach - but it's another thing altogether to suggest it was fraudulent.

And coming from someone who skipped the coop to go to Carlton - that's bloody rich. In fact, it's just historical revisionism.

And just to jog everyone's memory about the Kreuzer/Judd Cup - the initial post sums up the picks Carlton stood to gain from losing this game: http://demonland.com...elb-vs-carlton/

Thanks Bomber Riley. Thank you very much.

Yep, grt post. I reckon Brock has made himself look like a fool. Firstly because he took the bait. But Secondly he's saying that he left us because we were tanking...and then went to CARLTON. yeah right....high principles Brock . That should win some respect back for you lol.

Carlton weren't the first to tank either......but they were the first to do it so blatantly.

[fuchsia 37]

I thought this speccy git sheahan retired

ME THINKS THIS IS A TACTIC BY SHEAHAN !!

by not mentioning the bleeding obvious "carlton-cheating for 20 years-come tanking..

he does not want to give "cam " & board a quick "OUT"!! By just focusing on the fact of the MFC BOARDS DECISION MAKING..

he has already stated earlier in the year of his wish for "CAM SCHWAB " TO BE REPLACED..with a new CEO with verve & savoir faire ..

these " BLOKES" HAVE Been impossible to get rid of for 50 years..they permeate deplorable ideas & personal agenda's..

"MCC" types who r collins st ..professional stereo types..doctors-lawyers insurance salesmen ..who know nought about running a football club..

" EXCLUDING the financial wizards who should be LOUDLY complimented !" & COMMENDED as well as the rich supporters who put hands in pockets..

their money has been there for years but has been " UNTAPPED" DUE to not being courted..

NORM SMITHS FEARS WERE WELL FOUNDED..! & INSIGHTFUL ;

" I FEAR FOR THE MELB.FC, I FEAR FOR THE SUPPORTERS.." " GET RID OF THESE BLOKES "" !!!!

[ChaserJ 3,964]

But then ... why didn't tanking affect Carlton, West Coast, Collingwood or Hawthorn's culture in such a way.

Unfortunately there are no simplistic conclusions in this matter.

Very good point. Hard to lump all of those clubs in the same category, because the circumstances surrounding their respective poor seasons all look a bit different when you line them up.

What those clubs have that Melbourne don't at the moment are large supporter bases and commercial interests making them much stronger financially and bigger fish than Melbourne have been for a long time. We're doing better commercially these days, but each of those clubs have significant off field strengths that we haven't been able to compete against for a long time.

When you compare Melbourne's rebuild with that of the 'rebuild' teams listed above with Melbourne's, and I say this without the raw data in front of me, we would be the ones that invested in youth most completely. If you go back and analyse when these teams started to perform poorly, they still retained seasoned players even when the young high draftees were being integrated.

The change in list from 2006 to 2008 was not only dramatic but almost brutal at times. In hindsight perhaps too much so. I was comfortable with the improvements the team was making up until 2010, but in losing Junior and Bruce (after physically mature McLean had already left for Carlton the season before) the balance of youth and experience on the list shifted far too dramatically toward youth. Then factor in that the number of recently drafted players on the list who weren't as physically well developed as other players on offer (think Scully vs Martin), it stands to reason that there bodies were not (and still aren't) able to carry the load of AFL football. The game style also changed to a far more contested style of footy during the rebuilding period as well. Would we have rated young talent differently in 07-09 if we knew contested ball would be so important in 2011? Probably.

The football department has recognised this, and has started to make recruiting adjustments. But readymade mature age recruits of the James McDonald kind aren't easy to find, so that leaves us as approximately the third youngest team in the competition. Ahead of the expansion teams.

I cite these as the biggest fundamental reasons for Melbourne's failure to step up.

However, I think the club is moving in the right direction off field. I highlight the successful pursuit of Mitch Clark and the financial ability to dramatically increase the size of the football department (including Misson and Craig, I'm very happy to have them on board).

I think this upcoming trading and drafting period will be crucial. To the point where it will profoundly change the fortunes of the club. It excites me more than a little.

As far as tanking's concerned, I just find it hard to believe that a culture of a club can be so adversely effected by tanking. There are too many examples of teams that perform poorly, bring in good talent accordingly, then improve exponentially for that to wash. As long as the equalisation method called the draft exists the tanking discussion will too. Be it AFL, NBA, MLB, whatever, but to blame tanking for Melbourne's culture, relevance or lack thereof is just too simplistic a reason.

Edited July 30, 2012 by ChaserJ

[Deeoldfart 7,732]

Lets not rewrite history. There is one reason and one reason only why Brock went to Carlton, we refused to give him a 3 year contact at $400000.00 per year. Carlton gave it to him and we wouldn't. He had come off another injury and his form wasn't great. That's right, hard to believe when a club like Carlton is involved, they gave him the money and he left. They offered us pick 11 and we grabbed it. Now lets not say it was for any other reason as if we had antied up the dollars he would have stayed.

..........................

I agree Redleg, and I reckon this is borne out by Beamers comments at the B&F function shortly after Brock left our Club for Carlton.

[Demonsterative 1,920]

I think McLean's behaviour is in bad taste. He is a Carlton player talking in bad taste against his old club. Why doesn't the tribunal rule apply in this case. that is not throwing a player under the bus. Why is he throwing the club under the bus. He knows this could put the club under scrutiny via the media and/or the AFL.

This is the second time he has done this. Bruise free football comments and now the tanking issue. He has issues with the club, a bit Sheedy like IMO

I'm not sure why he is making dangerous comments like this.

[ChaserJ 3,964]

I agree Redleg, and I reckon this is borne out by Beamers comments at the B&F function shortly after Brock left our Club for Carlton.

Yeah. I liked it at the time, but wonder how it would look if Beamer accepts a contract elsewhere under free agency?

[biggestred 4,307]

woah woah woah. brock did not kick the winning goal - he kicked to a lead and missed (it went over the guys head) and somehow bounced through for a goal. biggest fluke ever, dont give him credit for it!

[rjay 23,922]

Let the dirty laundry air. Some people inside this club must leave. The Ghost is still within.

...absolutely

[Biffen 12,327]

Tanking is the wrong word -its called list experimentation and any club is allowed to do it .

The alternative for a club in our situation is to recycle and patch up .

No one can doubt we needed a fresh start .

I though Brock was a great clubman and all that too but I found out the 10k bid at the auction was a nice way of paying a fine for some pi55y behaviour .

I am looking forward to the time when the whole football world hates us.

When we have the best and toughest 22 on the ground I will be happy .

Bring on the slagging all you sh!t clubs.

Get us a midfield with pace AND skill.

Hacks like Mclean are going nowhere .