SLEEPERS

[Robot Devil 1,895]

Had to laugh at the Richmond banner: "For tomorrow's headlines we can't wait. Tigers are in the eight"

I got a brief lift on the train home when I saw they were ninth, where they will hopefully remain.

With the awful year we are having please excuse my schadenfreude.

[Macca 17,118]

I agree with most of what you say, especially the last bit. But do you honestly expect them to line up like Auskickers at training for 3 hours and play kick to kick. I'm sure they practise their skills in various forms of drills at training each week, but at the end of the day at this level, players either have the required skills to hit targets or they don't. Unfortunately, there are far too many on our list who don't. Turn them over.

Are you absolutely sure about the bit I've highlighted ? Nothing can be assumed .

As an example , we only found out late last year (when Neeld, Misson and Craig arrived) , that our training levels to get fit for AFL footy were about half of what other clubs were doing . Can't ever remember hearing about this during DB's reign . It certainly wasn't common knowledge .

Having faith , trust , hope and belief is terrific but some of us are far more sceptical . I don't enjoy being sceptical by the way , but you can only go on believing promises for so long .

[Prof 15]

Bennell, Dunne and Bate need to be axed. Magner tries hard but is no where near AFL standard. Martin should be played more up forward. He is OK. J Mc Donald will not advance our side. Nicho is servicable. He made a few mistakes today but he has pace and works hard. Bail is receiving some very unfair criticism.He has fantastic endurance and competes really well. His disposal is not up to sctratch. Move Rivers back to defence. It's a long road.

[angrydee 842]

Neeld has had 11 players missing every week. The skills (71% DE cf Richmond's 69%) were bad but are actually improving. I notice the Neeld knockers run and hide their thoughts on the odd winning occasion. When this team is going places in 2 - 3 years you'll all be clambouring on Neeld's wagon. Richmond have had 4 years of Hardwick and still aren't much. We'll be better after 4 years of MN.

Collingwood had 10 years under MM, and Buck's hasn't changed the way they play much. 4 years ago everyone said WCE were rubbish and the chemist should be sacked.

I'm glad none of you weak (censored) weren't around me 40 years ago backing me up.

[beelzebub 23,390]

A new release to the cinemas is : The Three Stooges

we can go 19 better than that....we call them the Demons !!

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Obviously we are both supporters who are peed off in our own way. However, I will not concede improvement until our players can consistently deliver the ball (hand and foot) to teamates. Look how the top sides do it even under pressure. Our standard is woeful and I have not seen improvement in this area.

BBO, maginificent avatar! Better than Biffen's...but I digress.

The list is poor and has been for 5 or so years now. I know it's been said before, but things can turn very, very quickly!

I'm telling you right now, that NO beanpoles will be picked in this upcoming draft. There will be some ready made footballers in there and add players that were missing today and the Tigers get rolled.

Yes, we were poor, but Richmond are woeful. Have a look at Hardwick's Hardwicke's? face after the game today.

I'm so looking forward to 2013.

[beelzebub 23,390]

Neeld has had 11 players missing every week. The skills (71% DE cf Richmond's 69%) were bad but are actually improving. I notice the Neeld knockers run and hide their thoughts on the odd winning occasions. When this team is going places in 2 - 3 yearsd you'll all be clampouring on Neeld's wagon. Richmond have had 4 years of Hardwick and still aren't much. We'll be better after 4 years of MN.

Collingwood had 10 years under MM, and Buck's hasn't changed much. 4 years ago everyone said WCE were rubbish and the chemist should be sacked.

I'm glad none of you weak (censored) weren't around me 40 years ago backing me up.

Mate ;Neeld ..and the whole FD for that matter know they are marking time til they can actually make changes that will have real effect.. I must fess up and wonder at some of his positional moves, but Im going to give him largesse here and suppose he has a plan about all this. ( for now )

[Robot Devil 1,895]

A new release to the cinemas is : The Three Stooges

we can go 19 better than that....we call them the Demons !!

Do you think if they replayed our matches at 4x speed and played some Benny Hill music we could make some money off DVD sales?

[Cards13 9,117]

........ Hahhahahahaha! That is what I did most of they day, I laughed. I laughed at our team "play" footy as we are a laughable lot on game day. It is a lost season I just hope it is a set up for the next 5 years of seeing some development and success.

Can you actually move on 20 players in one off season, depening on contract situations, draft picks etc?

[beelzebub 23,390]

Do you think if they replayed our matches at 4x speed and played some Benny Hill music we could make some money off DVD sales?

only if they can throw some comely milk maids with big .............braids in....

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Are you absolutely sure about the bit I've highlighted ? Nothing can be assumed .

As an example , we only found out late last year (when Neeld, Misson and Craig arrived) , that our training levels to get fit for AFL footy were about half of what other clubs were doing . Can't ever remember hearing about this during DB's reign . It certainly wasn't common knowledge .

Having faith , trust , hope and belief is terrific but some of us are far more sceptical . I don't enjoy being sceptical by the way , but you can only go on believing promises for so long .

No I am not. But I would love to hear from anyone who gets to training, and whether it differs from how the likes of Collingwood are doing things nearby.

And let's not let Dean Bailey or the Pre-2012 Football Department's ineptitude be a reason to be overly skeptical and critical of Mark Neeld, and let's not forget that this is primarily Dean Bailey's list this season.

We just have to sit back and let Neeld put the permanent marker through a few names, and as Jumbo says, bring in a few hardened bodies, and implement the game style he was employed to implement. Although some may be skeptical, unfortunately we have no other option but to have faith that Schwab and the boys have selected the right bloke and let his 3 year contract run at least, because if we don't we will be employing untried coach after untried coach each year, who are failing to get the most out of an already inept list.

[beelzebub 23,390]

........ Hahhahahahaha! That is what I did most of they day, I laughed. I laughed at our team "play" footy as we are a laughable lot on game day. It is a lost season I just hope it is a set up for the next 5 years of seeing some development and success.

Can you actually move on 20 players in one off season, depening on contract situations, draft picks etc?

apparently all you need is a bus and a cliff.

[Ned 156]

Do you think if they replayed our matches at 4x speed and played some Benny Hill music we could make some money off DVD sales?

I can visualize it pretty easily. Classic.

[The Demon 2565 28]

And the MFCSS affecianados line up to push the self destruct button and go sit in the 'wallow' corner.

Yes we lost.. yes it was a hiding dressed up as a contest. We probably didnt have half a team of note, they probably lacked a 1/4.

In reality the care factor for this and any game for rest of year.... about 2/3 of 4/5 of SFA !!

Until we actually have a team where the greater majority of players actually give a toss and have at least 2 of the 3 basest of football skills anything we see served up will in all likely be tripe.

People are lining up to give Neeld a serve. whterh he does turn out to tbe our savious or a nother lemon on the list at the moment he has to play those he thinks have relevance to our future and see what they do as well as take note of those that might think they are dead certs for 2013 come hell or high water...well some have a surprise ahead.

Like cars of old they all needed running in....working out the bugs and fixing them. we cant fix ours til seasons end.

Im now focused on that. That will tell us far more about our futre than anything we saw today.

At least a few people here talk some sense

I would add in response to those that lament our lack of 'spread' (cliche du jour), that it's something that can only come with confidence. Are you seriously telling me that if you spent the day watching your team mates missing targets in the open by 10 metres that you would have the balls to lead off your direct opponent in the hope of receiving an accurate pass, particularly bearing in mind accountability is a non negotiable? Give me a spell. And that is definitely not a knock on Neelds message re: accountability, Bailey couldn't spell the word and we all saw the results on a dark day in Geelong. The number of times today that a single tiger beat us not just in one on ones but two or three on ones is testament to just how far we have to go in our ability to contest for the ball

The skills are awful but we are in far greater need of some confidence. Fortunately the 2nd half of our draw is a bit more conducive to finding some. Still, as per my previous post sending Rivers back to his rightful position to help stem the bleeding at the other end wouldn't hurt

In Neeld we trust. What choice have we got?

[Hardnut 327]

No I am not. But I would love to hear from anyone who gets to training, and whether it differs from how the likes of Collingwood are doing things nearby.

And let's not let Dean Bailey or the Pre-2012 Football Department's ineptitude be a reason to be overly skeptical and critical of Mark Neeld, and let's not forget that this is primarily Dean Bailey's list this season.

We just have to sit back and let Neeld put the permanent marker through a few names, and as Jumbo says, bring in a few hardened bodies, and implement the game style he was employed to implement. Although some may be skeptical, unfortunately we have no other option but to have faith that Schwab and the boys have selected the right bloke and let his 3 year contract run at least, because if we don't we will be employing untried coach after untried coach each year, who are failing to get the most out of an already inept list.

Let me just make one point categorically clear. All of my comments make no comparison between Neeld and Bailey. I am always referring to coaching in principle, and with an existing list, regardless of when the players were recruited. The one thing I do know is that when we clearly make a mistake in choice of coach, we have to rectify it asap. As for skills training, it is not Auskick stuff, it is putting the ball on a 10c piece stuff (or exactly where a team mate would want it - dare I say 'centimetre perfect'!). Have a look at how some teams achieve this regularly, whereas other supposedly good teams still make fundamental skill errors on a regular basis.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I just don't understand how one team can be bad for so many years and still not know how to do the basic things such as spread, chase, tackle, turn around after taking a mark and hit a target 20 metres away.

The reaction times too of players is appalling, very few Melbourne players are able to think beyond getting possession of the ball. Bate is one of the worst, he get's the ball then has to stop to asses the situation, standard AFL footballers are thinking two or even three possessions ahead. It is also why Martin gets smothered so often becuase he is so slow to think, incredible for such an intelligent person.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

Who is responsible then. The buck stops with the coach. He is responsible for this crap.

you are probaly the most short sighted poster on this site. If you think a coach can be responsible when hes only been in the job for 1/2 a season then im pretty sure you have never spent any time around a footy club OR a sporting club at all. i guess you were a chess player at school. i wouldnt imagine any influence(positive or negative) attributed to neelds appointement could be evident until at least after next pre season. coaches arent jedi knights. they can teach, demand and lead but bad/good habits dont disappear/appear over 1/2 a season. its hilarious that anyone would even think that.

i dont have an opinion of neeld yet. i am observing and will no doubt feel able to do so in 6 to 12 months. anything sooner is just emotional fluff.

tonatopia, you seem to have a real boner for neelds sacking. either a troll and if so you should be banned form the site, or more likely just have no clue about the game of footy and sport in general.

[Robot Devil 1,895]

It is also why Martin gets smothered so often becuase he is so slow to think, incredible for such an intelligent person.

But there would be a big difference between book smarts and footy smarts.

I'm sure the Channel 7 commentary team featuring Luke "Captain Obvious" Darcy could crap on about that for a while.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

We have indeed recruited poorly and at last we are prepared to admit it, previously if you said that you were shouted down and told you didn't have a clue.

Perhaps we should revisit some of the threads where a few of us copped heaps and see if any opinions have changed. Grandson of a gun, anything to say now?

Neeld will be alright, he seems to understand we have deficiencies and is going to try and rectify them unlike the previous coaches who, like some posters on here, couldn't see the problem.

BTW at the recent Before the Bounce Craig said there will be big changes at the end of the year and there will be quite a few players moved on as the club are convinced they are simply not up to AFL standard.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

But there would be a big difference between book smarts and footy smarts.

I realise there is a difference, but you would at least think he could consciously learn to improve in this area.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Let me just make one point categorically clear. All of my comments make no comparison between Neeld and Bailey. I am always referring to coaching in principle, and with an existing list, regardless of when the players were recruited. The one thing I do know is that when we clearly make a mistake in choice of coach, we have to rectify it asap. As for skills training, it is not Auskick stuff, it is putting the ball on a 10c piece stuff (or exactly where a team mate would want it - dare I say 'centimetre perfect'!). Have a look at how some teams achieve this regularly, whereas other supposedly good teams still make fundamental skill errors on a regular basis.

I understand what you are saying Hardnut, that being that Neeld should have come in and worked with the existing list and style, and tweaked it and put his own stamp on it, rather than radically changing the way we play, and looking to turn the list over massively at the end of the year. And while I can see where you are coming from, I think the decision was made that the attacking, unaccountable style of play under Bailey wasn't going to get us anywhere and we needed someone to come in and instill the basics of defensive footy and dramatically change the way things were done at the club. Time will tell I guess, but I firmly believe that Neeld needs to be given the length of his contract to do what he was employed to do, otherwise we are back where we started again, and probably even further back.

[Macca 17,118]

No I am not. But I would love to hear from anyone who gets to training, and whether it differs from how the likes of Collingwood are doing things nearby.

And let's not let Dean Bailey or the Pre-2012 Football Department's ineptitude be a reason to be overly skeptical and critical of Mark Neeld, and let's not forget that this is primarily Dean Bailey's list this season.

We just have to sit back and let Neeld put the permanent marker through a few names, and as Jumbo says, bring in a few hardened bodies, and implement the game style he was employed to implement. Although some may be skeptical, unfortunately we have no other option but to have faith that Schwab and the boys have selected the right bloke and let his 3 year contract run at least, because if we don't we will be employing untried coach after untried coach each year, who are failing to get the most out of an already inept list.

I never compared Bailey to Neeld . You've taken a big leap there . Don't be jumping to conclusions 'Forest Demon' . I used the previous FD's lack of knowledge with regards to fitness levels as an example of how we shouldn't have too much faith .

I never watch a Coach's press conference's as an example - reckon it may cloud people's judgement .

In the end , as always , this comes down to a debate between people with not enough faith vs people with too much faith . At least I'm prepared to admit that I'm part of the former .

[Hardnut 327]

you are probaly the most short sighted poster on this site. If you think a coach can be responsible when hes only been in the job for 1/2 a season then im pretty sure you have never spent any time around a footy club OR a sporting club at all. i guess you were a chess player at school. i wouldnt imagine any influence(positive or negative) attributed to neelds appointement could be evident until at least after next pre season. coaches arent jedi knights. they can teach, demand and lead but bad/good habits dont disappear/appear over 1/2 a season. its hilarious that anyone would even think that.

i dont have an opinion of neeld yet. i am observing and will no doubt feel able to do so in 6 to 12 months. anything sooner is just emotional fluff.

tonatopia, you seem to have a real boner for neelds sacking. either a troll and if so you should be banned form the site, or more likely just have no clue about the game of footy and sport in general.

No need for the personal attack Munga.

I'm watching Adelaide at the moment - perhaps you should be too!

[Ron Burgundy 8,588]

Good games - Colin Sylvia and Jamie Bennell.

Well done.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

I never compared Bailey to Neeld . You've taken a big leap there . Don't be jumping to conclusions 'Forest Demon' . I used the previous FD's lack of knowledge with regards to fitness levels as an example of how we shouldn't have too much faith .

I never watch a Coach's press conference's as an example - reckon it may cloud people's judgement .

In the end , as always , this comes down to a debate between people with not enough faith vs people with too much faith . At least I'm prepared to admit that I'm part of the former .

For the record, I would barely say I am a person with too much faith. I have no idea whether Neeld will make it or not, but all I am doing is refusing to blame him for past errors and am willing to give him time to do his job.

And that earlier comment was not meant to infer that you were comparing Neeld to Bailey.