When has Jack Watts even had one?

Seriously there is nothing at all wrong with realising we got the pick wrong and appreciating the superstar that is Nic Nat

Fertile ground over at Subi compared to where Jack has been learning his trade.

Don't ever discount this fact.

If Nik had have come to Melbourne he would be struggling more than Watts IMO.

I do not think there is any doubt Nic has talent.

IMO he will be in best player from that years draft in 5 years time.

So maybe we got the second best player from that year.

If that is the way it pans out so be it.

I will be happy with the seocnd best player from that year.

It will be way better than the guy we took the year after!

did anyone see the reaction on john worsfold face after Naitanui missed the goal...he was actually p!ssed off...i thought to myself that would have been goal of the year...if not in the best of all time.

Should have been dragged. Selfish play. He's a dud. No talent, just interesting hair. I predict he won't play in any more than 2 or 3 premierships and will never get closer than second in the Brownlow. Waste of space.

I'm sorry but how can you say that?

Even if Jack turns into a superstar in 3 years, Nic Nat already is one.

We would have at best missed 3 years of having a superstar on our list.

We got it wrong. Why as a collective is it wrong to admit it?

The sooner we do the better for everyone. Including Jack

We only got it wrong if Natanui plays like that regularly. At this point in time Natanui is ahead of Jack and up to last night Jack was catching up but Nic Nat excelled last night.

Nic Nat is ahead but there was a lot of what if's with him and he was raw, it was a big call either way and my mail is the club was really hard pressed to make the decision. If it turns out after 100games we got it wrong so be it, but I don't believe we got it horribly wrong and by that I'm talking Fiora before Pavlich and Tambling before Franklin.

I'm tipping the Eagles will be there for the Big Dance this year.

That being the case, I'm not a betting person but I'd be very tempted to throw $50 on him.

Worsfold is a brilliant coach I have to say. Managing his development perfectly, first as a foil for Cox and now stepping Nic Nat's output up as they gear up for finals.

Worsfold is a good motivator, who for a long time has had a big spending footy department. Without stating the obvious if you recall the way Mark Harvey struggled when Chris Scott left as his sidekick, Walsh and Burns are the brains behind this team. The press was Walsh's idea and he implemented it toward the end of 2010.

Woosha is good at pulling blokes into line but he is no tactical genius!

Nik Nat is a superstar. Get used to it.

List of Supertars Ablett, Pendles Franklin, Judd

edit Goodes

Ok time for stats for the superstar

Stats read left to right, Kicks, Handballs, Disposals, Marks, Hitouts Tackles

Cox 106 66 172 60 261 28

Nat 51 77 128 27 240 16

Jamar 48 53 101 25 383 20

Watts 97 73 170 54 2 16

Jamar trying to ruck on his own and get around the ground, nice twenty tackles though

Ok time for stats for the superstar

Stats read left to right, Kicks, Handballs, Disposals, Marks, Hitouts Tackles

Cox 106 66 172 60 261 28

Nat 51 77 128 27 240 16

Jamar 48 53 101 25 383 20

Watts 97 73 170 54 2 16

I know this will sound odd for rpfc to say but some stats are useless. Comparing ruckmen with a bloke who is playing an attacking HBF role is misleading.

NikNat will be a very good ruck that will play some great games.

But I still think we need class and if Watts can continue to work on his intensity in close he will be a very good player with elite skills.

Ok time for stats for the superstar

Stats read left to right, Kicks, Handballs, Disposals, Marks, Hitouts Tackles

Cox 106 66 172 60 261 28

Nat 51 77 128 27 240 16

Jamar 48 53 101 25 383 20

Watts 97 73 170 54 2 16

Jamar trying to ruck on his own and get around the ground, nice twenty tackles though

Excellent stats for a 22yo senior AFL ruckman who will only get better with each passing season.

What's more the stats tell only half the story in NicNat's case. What they don't show is the inferred pressure he puts opposition players under, the lift he gives his teammates through acts of brilliance.

They don't measure that indefinable quality all great players have - presence.

But these types of things require a nuanced understanding of the game Satyricon. Something which it seems you're lacking in.

its his first ever 4 qtr game and all of a sudden were back to the greatest player ever hype. Hes been put straight into winning side and has had a winning midfield next to him his whole career, Watts is a key player in a team trying to build from below 0.

Excellent stats for a 22yo senior AFL ruckman who will only get better with each passing season.

What's more the stats tell only half the story in NicNat's case. What they don't show is the inferred pressure he puts opposition players under, the lift he gives his teammates through acts of brilliance.

They don't measure that indefinable quality all great players have - presence.

But these types of things require a nuanced understanding of the game Satyricon. Something which it seems you're lacking in.

What's wrong RR, I don't agree with you, so it is on with the personal insults

Didn't realise your nickname masked a mix of Leigh Mathews/Norm Smith/Mick Malthouse and David King

Get over it he has played one good 4 quarter game, if he plays half a dozen, great I will join in, but in a measured way, but until then his numbers show exactly what is happening, take Cox out of the side and let him ruck 22 games as no 1, then we will see whether the acolades are deserved.

Enough nuancing for you?

Jake King has presence....I don't see anybody saying he is a superstar

What's wrong RR, I don't agree with you, so it is on with the personal insults

Didn't realise your nickname masked a mix of Leigh Mathews/Norm Smith/Mick Malthouse and David King

I'll abide comparisons with those first three names thank you very much!

I'm not insulting you as a person, but I do question your footy acumen if all you can see are numbers on a statistics chart.

Mitch Clark is better.

I'll abide comparisons with those first three names thank you very much!

I'm not insulting you as a person, but I do question your footy acumen if all you can see are numbers on a statistics chart.

My ability to understand a game of footy and all it's nuances is part of my personal makeup, so yes you were insulting me as a person, deriding me for not having the full scope of understanding that you so obviously possess

I wasn't using the stats except as a tool to show NikNat "the superstar" is sharing a role in a team.

I want to see him as the no 1 ruckman in the team with a backup who does not have the same experience or ability as Cox and see if NikNat can produce the same sort of display(s)

On the few occassions last season when Cox was not there NikNat got smashed, nobody said anything then, (check the stats from last season if you don't believe me)

Mitch Clark is better.

I love Mitch Clark. And when I grow up, I'm going to marry him.

I'll abide comparisons with those first three names thank you very much!

I'm not insulting you as a person, but I do question your footy acumen if all you can see are numbers on a statistics chart.

Rangey, I think you are the one over-reaching here

Lets have another look at dreadlocks in another year

No doubting that NN is going to be a gun player of the comp. Last night was only the third time in 60 odd games he's cracked 20 disposals. He still has along way to go in terms of development and consistency.

There are a select few players in the AFL capable of truly brilliant things that for whatever reason do not turn it on consistently. Despite this, they are often described as superstars. Nik Nat and Cyril Rioli are two such players. Both these guys have supreme talents but do not impact games often enough to warrant the superstar tag YET. It's one thing to marvel at their abilities - which I defy anyone to dispute - but superstar is a big stretch that I'm not prepared to concede until they mix brilliance with consistency (a la Buddy Franklin and Gary Ablett Sr, for example).

My ability to understand a game of footy and all it's nuances is part of my personal makeup, so yes you were insulting me as a person, deriding me for not having the full scope of understanding that you so obviously possess

I wasn't using the stats except as a tool to show NikNat "the superstar" is sharing a role in a team.

I want to see him as the no 1 ruckman in the team with a backup who does not have the same experience or ability as Cox and see if NikNat can produce the same sort of display(s)

On the few occassions last season when Cox was not there NikNat got smashed, nobody said anything then, (check the stats from last season if you don't believe me)

I am not disputing the stats you put up at all. And yes Nik Nat is still young and raw.

But show me another big man who is as athletic as he is on a football oval.

He picks up a ball like a rover. The guy is a freak. At present you may consider him an apprentice superstar, but in 2-3 years barring injuries he will be the weapon.

My ability to understand a game of footy and all it's nuances is part of my personal makeup, so yes you were insulting me as a person

Oh well, it's up to you if you want to take it that way. I don't know why you'd want to define your personal makeup by the various stances you take on professional sport.

I'm sure it's really got very little to do with your qualities as a human being.

Look, the fact is the 201cm monster destroyed Carlton in the wet last last, swatting away opponents like they'd just been called up from the little league.

I can't see how how anyone cannot be impressed by this man.

Rangey, I think you are the one over-reaching here

Lets have another look at dreadlocks in another year

Maybe DC. But I like to call things early. Hang my jatzies on the line. And I'm goin' with NicNat's about to blitzkreig the competition.

Current superstar? No. But it's hard to disagree with these sentiments:

At present you may consider him an apprentice superstar, but in 2-3 years barring injuries he will be the weapon.

I can't see how how anyone cannot be impressed by this man.

NicNat's about to blitzkreig the competition.

Maybe DC. But I like to call things early. Hang my jatzies on the line. And I'm goin' with NicNat's about to blitzkreig the competition.

Put me down for $100

I'm sorry but how can you say that?

Even if Jack turns into a superstar in 3 years, Nic Nat already is one.

We would have at best missed 3 years of having a superstar on our list.

We got it wrong. Why as a collective is it wrong to admit it?

The sooner we do the better for everyone. Including Jack

That's just not the case. By any measure he is not a superstar. He may become one, sure (as Watts will) but is in't one at present. What are you basing your assessment on? The game last night? He had 25 possessions, which is good but not earth shattering for a guy who spends so much time on the ball. This is the most possessions he has had in a game at AFL level, ever. He certainly influenced the result with his display in the second half, he was terrific but this one of the few times he has actually done so. Instructively the Hun gave top votes in the game, not to Natanui but Sellwood.

If he was a superstar he would be a monty for AA selection this year surely but he won't be selected. Don't get me wrong i reckon he will become one of the best player in the league, a superstar if you will. But so will Watts and i stand by my statement both clubs will have won from the deal.

got a soft spot for nic nat, cos he played for Swanny's in the WAFL

Was at the game last night and he did play very well. I actually thought Jack Darling was the difference between the two sides though! Carlton cant take a mark inside 50

NikNat seems to me like Jared Brennan. He show glimpses, but does not do it consistently enough. Maybe he will, but one highlight a quarter is not enough. Ruckmen like Cox, Sandliands and Jolly consistently beat their opponents and kicks goals most games.

One major concern I have for NikNat is that he doesn't seem to read the play, if he did he would be phenomenal.