The Urge to Merge

[w00dy 146]

I've just finished reading Ian Ridley's book recounting the process which saw this club come very close to becoming the Melbourne Hawks. It was a gift many years ago, but only just got around to reading it. Has anyone else here read it? I was to young to remember any details from the dramas of 1996.

For those who do remember I'd be interested in your thoughts on that time, that night at the Dallas Brooks hall, and your thoughts if you have read the book.

The thing that stands out to me, and this is also the opinion of Robbie Flower who wrote closing comments in the book, was that while the merger was the alternative that would most likely see the club achieve it's objectives, this benefit was not weighed up against the loss of identity that would've been involved. The middle ground didn't appear to be examined. Also the gospel belief that the salary cap would increase by so much without broader growth in club revenues was somewhat naive.

The support of the players for the merger was a surprise, as was the sound financial footing the club was currently on when the proposal was considered. I thought it was cash but we were chasing their home ground and facilities. There are also many stories about how the vote was conducted, does anyone have any experiences they could share about this process?

[jnrmac 19,052]

It was a good deal for Melbourne, Bad for the Hawks.

We would have been given $6m from the AFL, had the pick of the players and had a training facility etc.

But its history and the vitriol shown to guys like Ridley was disgusting.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,487]

But its history and the vitriol shown to guys like Ridley was disgusting.

I was only 14 at the time but can remember reading the papers about it as well watching the voting meetings on Talking Footy or whatever it was. There may have been vitriol shown but they were trying to destroy our club so of course people were emotional.

Would love to see footage from that night if available (from both Camberwell Civic Centre & Dallas Brooks Hall) as well as news clips from the time - would make an interesting doco (in the style of 30 for 30) particularly considering the Merger Match in R22.

[Mazer Rackham 14,969]

Important to remember that we (the members) were not voting to put the MFC out of existence.

We were voting to put HFC out of existence.

It was a takeover. Get their players, sponsors, supporters, facilities, and five years later have a jumper change and name change back to "the Demons".

Somehow, we were the "senior partner" in this escapade.

Looked great on paper.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Carn' the Melbourne Dawks!

[Swooper 251]

The final round merger game was one of the greats. Played with great passion and intensity. I still remember my sorrow thinking I had perhaps for the last time seen my beloved Demons.

Even though we have not achieved success since them, I am still grateful to Don Scott for leading Hawthorn to a no.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Swooper

[bush demon 1,898]

Apparently it failed because too many players would have had to run around in the poos. Effectively a takeover of Hawthorn by Melbourne. That's why MFC vote tended to support it and the Hawthorn membership didn't.

Edited June 13, 2012 by bush demon

[dpositive 1,547]

I was there at the time and it is still too raw to objectively remember.

It seems as others have said more a takeover of the Hawks but the process being undertaken effectively meant the powerbrokers (the suits) treated the members with some disdain and certainly communications were not transparent.

The vote tampering which was a perceived as legitimate was part of the arrogance displayed

and when statements that "we had looked everywhere for sponsors and had nowhere else to go" was responded to by Joe Gutnick stating "you did not ask me" there was a palpable air of mistrust.

While I have no doubt the intention of the board was to ensure MFC survival it was survival as they saw it not as was apparent for the majority of supporters Brian Dixon and the Gutnick camp may have lost the vote but won the court of public opinion.

The fashion that JIm used in getting the club revitalised was a direct contradiction. Seeking and getting the involvement in a publicised fashion of all members and supporters. Democracy rather than a benevolent patriachial dictatorship.

I hope we do not see the demise of Melbourne but believe we will need to have some on field success to maintain our relevance to the next generation of supporters.

[old dee 22,926]

I was there at the time and it is still too raw to objectively remember.

It seems as others have said more a takeover of the Hawks but the process being undertaken effectively meant the powerbrokers (the suits) treated the members with some disdain and certainly communications were not transparent.

The vote tampering which was a perceived as legitimate was part of the arrogance displayed

and when statements that "we had looked everywhere for sponsors and had nowhere else to go" was responded to by Joe Gutnick stating "you did not ask me" there was a palpable air of mistrust.

While I have no doubt the intention of the board was to ensure MFC survival it was survival as they saw it not as was apparent for the majority of supporters Brian Dixon and the Gutnick camp may have lost the vote but won the court of public opinion.

The fashion that JIm used in getting the club revitalised was a direct contradiction. Seeking and getting the involvement in a publicised fashion of all members and supporters. Democracy rather than a benevolent patriachial dictatorship.

I hope we do not see the demise of Melbourne but believe we will need to have some on field success to maintain our relevance to the next generation of supporters.

You have covered it well dpositive, very close to how I remember it.

Your last line is my big concern, I fear that the MFC is at the cross roads over the next 3 - 4 years

IMO anything less than winning the 70% of our matches by 2015 we see the MFC become an irrelevance in the AFL.

We are not imune to being amalgamated with the GWS by the end of this decade if we keep on the way we have over the last 5 years.

A decade of failure we be the end of us.

[Hip & Shoulder 64]

The reason no one had 'asked' Joe Gutnick was that he'd never had anything to do with the MFC before the merger proposal was put forward. He'd never been a supporter or even a barracker. (Yes, there is a difference.) No one had ever heard of him.

And the players supported the merger because it was their best chance of being able to play in and win a Grand Final, and that's what playing football is all about.

[Sir Why You Little 34,581]

Hey old dee the 2012 MFC/MCC Scarves look great. Red in colour. I will happily wear mine. I thought of you when i picked it up.

[Red N Blue Society 165]

I was there as a young bloke with my Dad and his mate.I may have been about 20.

I distinctly remember Sean Wight standing leaning against a pillar or post at the back of the room with a decidedly staunch angry type of look.

His arms were folded in either disgust at what was happening or just dilligently listening to the speeches handed out from Pro or anti merger persons.

Everyone broke into raptures when Brian Dixon stood on stage..it was electric in there..Passion was high on every MFC fan & members agenda for the night!

It was just like the MFC member stand in the old red n blue seats. Loud!

I think every one knew why Ian Ridley tried to merge. He wanted success for us & saw a damning future ahead. But we were not going to be us if we merged!

There is no way in HELL itself we voted for the merger...absolute garbage.

I went home knowing we wouldnt merge & we didnt. End of story...the press can say we voted to merge I say BS!

[Sir Why You Little 34,581]

I was there as a young bloke with my Dad and his mate.I may have been about 20.

I distinctly remember Sean Wight standing leaning against a pillar or post at the back of the room with a decidedly staunch angry type of look.

His arms were folded in either disgust at what was happening or just dilligently listening to the speeches handed out from Pro or anti merger persons.

Everyone broke into raptures when Brian Dixon stood on stage..it was electric in there..Passion was high on every MFC fan & members agenda for the night!

It was just like the MFC member stand in the old red n blue seats. Loud!

I think every one knew why Ian Ridley tried to merge. He wanted success for us & saw a damning future ahead. But we were not going to be us if we merged!

There is no way in HELL itself we voted for the merger...absolute garbage.

I went home knowing we wouldnt merge & we didnt. End of story...the press can say we voted to merge I say BS!

35,500 members are signed in 2012. As long as the club continues to improve each year. No excuses accepted for failure. We will survive.

There were 2 roars from the MCC reserve & the Northern Stand last monday that told me that. We do care. But we must never accept 2nd best again ever. Good clubs just don't.

[old dee 22,926]

Hey old dee the 2012 MFC/MCC Scarves look great. Red in colour. I will happily wear mine. I thought of you when i picked it up.

Mate are we talking about the same scarf?

Mine is Maroon not red it is the same colour as this years jumper.

Not like the 2010 version which I am still wearing.

Edited June 13, 2012 by old dee

[Red N Blue Society 165]

For such a bad year to date we are going alright for 35k members.

We have a lot of pride at MFC as a club & supporters & we might be down atm but we wont be going away ever!

[old dee 22,926]

For such a bad year to date we are going alright for 35k members.

We have a lot of pride at MFC as a club & supporters & we might be down atm but we wont be going away ever!

Don't get too far ahead of yourself TT.

"ever" is a very long time.

[old dee 22,926]

35,500 members are signed in 2012. As long as the club continues to improve each year. No excuses accepted for failure. We will survive.

There were 2 roars from the MCC reserve & the Northern Stand last monday that told me that. We do care. But we must never accept 2nd best again ever. Good clubs just don't.

aint that the truth

Edited June 13, 2012 by old dee

[Sir Why You Little 34,581]

Mate are we talking about the same scarf?

Mine is Maroon not red it is the same colour as this years jumper.

Not like the 2010 version which I am still wearing.

My 2011 scarf is Maroon. 2012 is definately red. They are both hanging now on the same hook at home.

2012 looks cool.

[old dee 22,926]

My 2011 scarf is Maroon. 2012 is definately red. They are both hanging now on the same hook at home.

2012 looks cool.

Well my eye sight must be worse than I thought WYL They look the same to me.

However I have only memory to compare as I sent last years back advising them I only wear red and blue not maroon and blue.

My wife things I am nuts and she may well be correct.

Just had a nother look you may be right it is a bit better.

Oh god I am really majoring in minors here.

Just win games Dees the bloody scarf colour does not matter.

[Face Your Demons 175]

I would have hated being the Melbourne Hawks. Almost as much as the 5 or 6 flag we would have won.

[old dee 22,926]

I would have hated being the Melbourne Hawks. Almost as much as the 5 or 6 flag we would have won.

Yes me too FYD imagine all that celebrating we would have had to do at the end of September.

What a way to spend the end of the month.

I much prefer to have forgotten football four weeks earlier.

Much more civilised!

[Sir Why You Little 34,581]

I would have hated being the Melbourne Hawks. Almost as much as the 5 or 6 flag we would have won.

But they wouldn't have been our flags. That's the whole point. Fitzroy didn't win 3 in a row.

[old dee 22,926]

But they wouldn't have been our flags. That's the whole point. Fitzroy didn't win 3 in a row.

There are a very large number of days wyl when I would be happy to ignore the samantics of that statement.

Right now the "melbourne Hawks" looks fine.

I also know a number of Fitzroy supporters who really enjoyed those weekends

Edited June 13, 2012 by old dee

[Fork 'em 6,525]

Your last line is my big concern, I fear that the MFC is at the cross roads over the next 3 - 4 years

IMO anything less than winning the 70% of our matches by 2015 we see the MFC become an irrelevance in the AFL.

Not only do we need wins , we need flags and a few of them.

The only way to win over the kids "supporters for the future" is to have sustained success for the better part of a decade.

Then you have to wait another 10-15 years till these kids can earn an income and become members themselves.

[Sir Why You Little 34,581]

There are a very large number of days wyl when I would be happy to ignore the samantics of that statement.

Right now the "melbourne Hawks" looks fine.

I also know a number of Fitzroy supporters who really enjoyed those weekends

Well each to their own my friend. A Melbourne Dawks flag would not excite me very much at all.

Like a Beatles reunion without John Lennon or George Harrison.

I could never support anything brown & gold. I was there in '87.