Message from the President...

[Jaded No More 58,946]

You reap what you sow. The FD lost the respect of those players and I can understand why. MFC have a history of treating its older players very poorly. And please don't come back with "but they're professionals". They are humans with all the feelings and reactions that go with it. They've been told they're not wanted. What did you expect?

Correct.

And whether we like to admit it or not, it's not a simple case of "stuff the old players, they are no good anyway".

If out of a list of 44 players, the 8 most experienced and better players have had enough, then we are in big trouble. You don't magically replace your best and most senior players, and you certainly do nothing for the younger players by putting those guys out on the sidewalk for the garbage truck to collect.

The way we treated Junior impacted a lot of players, not just Junior.

If you work for an organisation that doesn't respect or appreciate the loyalty of their employees, you're not likely to work very hard for that business.

Jamar and Moloney can say "I gave you the best years of my career and got no success for it, and now you're treating me like yesterday's fish and chips". To us it might be infuriating as supporters, but these players are people and nobody likes a new boss coming in and treating you like you're a worthless idiot.

There is a way to implement a new regime and there is a way to just [censored] a whole lot of people off.

Neeld's first job should have been to sell these players the dream, and maybe he did, but it's hard to keep believing when you get smashed every week, your leadership title has been taken away from you, and the media thinks you're lazy and undisciplined. And the hardest thing is coming back to that mindset of caring for the organisation, because once you turn against something, it's hard to change back.

And please don't think that I am sticking up for our crappy, lazy, spoilt senior players, because I'm not, but at some point we have to acknowledge that we are dealing with dozens of human beings who on some level must just feel like they've wasted their whole career. Yes they are partly to blame, but what sort of football department do we have, if they can't bring the boys back to a good place mentally, so much so, that we are getting demolished before the game even starts.

Players not giving anything is a sign of players who don't have anything to give.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

We don't have enough information to make this conclusion. For example, the other side of the coin was that the senior players efforts over the pre-season were so poor that the FD had no choice but to dump them from the leadership group, how could you reward non-performers with leadership roles?

Perhaps the senior players lost the respect of the FD.

This is the best post I have seen in weeks and sums up the situation perfectly. It's a chicken or the egg situation and we can only speculate at this stage unfortunately.

[Sir Why You Little 34,836]

Junior was the only one hard done by IMO. He couldn't continue on after 2010 but still deserved better.

interesting point here. How could we have done it better?

It was always going to be hard.

Jnr is playing some games this year because 2011 was a year off AFL.

Should we have kept him on the list in hope?

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Robertson was probably best 22 because he knew how to find the footy but ended up on the ground punching the turf far too much, and certainly didn't work hard enough defensively. Yze was in no way best 22 when he got cut - he was a shadow of his former self; I remember thinking it was quite sad. I can't really remember whether White was tracking as badly but he didn't get picked up anywhere else and if we wanted to hang on to our other ruck prospects we couldn't keep giving White the number one ruck mantle.

We tried to hold on to Bruce but he thought the writing was on the wall and didn't end up doing much at Hawthorn. I don't know if we missed much, tbh. Sure, McDonald was a decision we'd probably take back in hindsight, but it wasn't a horrendous one at the time IMO.

I have no issue with the decisions on Robbo, Yze and White either (for what it's worth). But, after Junior, I think many of the senior players felt they had targets on their heads.

The only senior player let go by the previous administration that I had an issue with was Junior. A very big issue. He was clearly respected by everyone on the list, and was a hard at it player for his entire MFC career. He was still in our best 22 and had a major role to play in 2011.

In short, I think he was cut prematurely, and badly, and the effects of it are still playing out.

[rjay 24,038]

The big question wasn't answered, what is wrong at the club? We have been derailed from the 2011 season, Bailey couldn't stop it, Viney couldn't and Neeld is not at the moment. Is it all the players doing, yes their effort has been poor but they didn't recruit themselves, list manage themselves for a start.

Something is rotten at the Demons and it's not just the players, nor is it 3 coaches in the last year. It is part of the problem but not the whole problem.

As my Tiger mate said who just watched the interview with me, "Spin Doctor that bloke", I shure hope you don't believe all that rot you were speaking tonight Don, if you do we are in for another 40+ years of pain.

The same people are in senior positions that were there at the start of the re build and now we start again, come on mate. You surely can't trust them with another one.

[deanox 8,770]

But they have, almost to a man, been dumped and humiliated by the current football department. Their loyalty to the club has counted for nothing. No wonder Moloney, Green, Davey and to a lesser extent Rivers are shadows today and their older mates like Jamar and Sylvia impacted as well.

You reap what you sow. The FD lost the respect of those players and I can understand why. MFC have a history of treating its older players very poorly. And please don't come back with "but they're professionals". They are humans with all the feelings and reactions that go with it. They've been told they're not wanted. What did you expect?

Fan, I understand your point here about why the players may be performing like this now, but that doesn't excuse the last 10-15 years. In all that time we have always had players who seem to be front runners, who only run one direction, who lay on the ground looking for free kicks instead of getting up and chasing. Essendon in 2000 didn't do this. Brisbane the next three years didn't do this. We have had a player culture at our club for far too long which was never going to make us successful. Talent doesn't get you there, hardwork and committment does.

This is why ALL the senior players (bar Junior) were moved on. All thought they were better than they were, and while they may have been great servants of the club, that doesn't mean they were going to be the players to lead us forward.The fact that none of our players had further careers at other clubs speaks volumes for the fact that we made the right call. Junior was a mistake, and I believe that decision was based on the clubs opinion of his body coping with another season, not to do with other factors. Stirling Mortlock's presence at the Melbourne Rebels this year has been an example of why Junior should have been retained.

When Hawthorn hit rock bottom, who did they turn to to lead them? Richie Vandenberg, a no frills, but uncompromising player. He wasn't their best player, or their flashiest, but he set an example, he worked hard, and he did the right things. I completely agree with your point about the players being human, and feel sorry for them. I love watching them, and I've shared in their highs and lows all my life, but can anyone really point out a player who was moved on too early, other than Junior?

There has been a lot of hate for the coaches and love for the players lately, and that really surprises me. I've made the following observations, and these are what tells me that the problem is with the players. I may have missed some obvious things, so happy to discuss if anyone has any observations other than "we've gone backwards" because that is clearly for other reasons.

- Whenever we get smashed (pretty much every loss) the players with the worst stats are normally a bunch of senior players. Check out Davey, Green, Jamar, Sylvia this week. Even Moloney was down on his usual output. These players are rarely seen to work hard in games we aren't winning. Ablett, Hodge, Hayes, Ball, etc still play well when their sides lose. Our 'senior' players lie down.

- We have a virtually whole new footy deptartment this year. The new coaches had 3 months to watch the players and work out who they thought were the leaders. They chose to disregard almost all of the existing 'leaders'. Clark, a newbie to the club, was judged a leader. Jones was the only player retained in that group. No one could dispute the onfield leadership shown by these two this year, but I would argue that Green, Davey, Moloney and Jamar haven't shown any. And they didn't show much most of last year either did they?

- The new conditioning staff (Misson and Craig) have repeatedly stated how poor our fitness levels were. We were doing half of the other clubs conditioning. Even this season we couldn't do a full load pre-season. This shows on the field. Time may prove Neeld to be a poor choice for head coach, but you cannot convince me that between Neeld (Collingwood), Misson (St Kilda and Sydney) and Craig (Adelaide) time at successful clubs, the three of them could be the problem? All were highly rated at successful clubs. If one wasn't good enough, I could believe it, but to suggest that the coaching panel is all wrong and that the players are write is preposterous.

- How hard is the game plan? OK, I know it is different. I undersatand there will be mistakes. I also understand it is the job of the coaches to teach. But our players seem unable to run with their man and cut off the option. We are loose and lazy. We don't work hard enough. You can only carry so many players, and at the moment we are carrying ALL of the senior players.

The current coaching panel has been put in place to turn around the culture of the club. For those young enough and willing enough, they can all be part of the next tilt, but if you aren't up to it you'll find yourself out of there. Remember, Cameron Bruce was one of our fittest, and one of our best trainers, and he looked average at Hawthorn. Every player that has left for another club has talked about how professional they are etc.compared to Melbourne. If we don't have the senior players to lead the change, like they did at Hawthorn and Geelong, then we need the coaches to lead the way.

McLardy's statement didn't seem like much, and Presidents often backflip, but I feel his move was to quell the rumours of coach sacking. He backed the FD and hung the responsibility on the players. If the players don't want to perform, they will be out of there at seasons end. The group that wants it (see the leadership group) will stay and make it happen.

Edit: spelling

Edited May 21, 2012 by deanox

[daisycutter 28,683]

Looks like Roos and Sheahan liked my question Daisy and McLardy's response was damning. Not his fault, he just didn't want to tell the truth.

So what? If you want your name associated with muckrakers that's your choice. It's not damning, not falling for their lttle trap is not the same as not telling the truth

IMO the club has handled the older players so poorly it's no surprise they haven't "bought in". The organization has ostracised the older players and particularly last years leadership group. We all know they had limitations but under Bailey they did as well as their ability allowed and the playing group were united and commited. When McLardy and Stynes interviewed the leadership group leading into the Geelong match the leaders spilled their guts on Schwab, Connolly and one or two others. They supported Bailey. McLardy listened, thanked them and acted. Schwab would not be extendedand Bailey was likely to be. This all changed post 186 and Bailey and a few others who were in the Bailey camp were dumped and in Bailey's case in the worst of ways. The playing group and leadership group in particular felt responsible.

and they should feel responsible. they should never have got involved in club politics (before, during and after the DMc meeting)

i also think DMc was wrong in talking to the players for a number of reasons. I know he thought he had his reasons but he should not have compromised the players like that There had to be a better way to get to the underlying issues.

You reap what you sow. The FD lost the respect of those players and I can understand why. MFC have a history of treating its older players very poorly. And please don't come back with "but they're professionals". They are humans with all the feelings and reactions that go with it. They've been told they're not wanted. What did you expect?

To some extent there is some truth in that. However the senior players have consistently failed to buy-in pre-186, 186, under Viney, the pre-season and now the season. I agree the JMc decision was wrong (as did the club admit) and the club/FD has made mistakes. They have also done some good new things - elite training facilities, new and expanded coaching staff, Mitch Clarke etc.

In truth the blame lies with BOTH camps. The senior players are beyond salvation. The new FD has not been given enough time (don't take that necessarily as an endorsement).

DMc has always been a reluctant pres thrust into the position by circumstances. I wouldn't be surprised if he steps down at the next AGM. I wouldn't be disappointed but I don't want to see him hung out to dry in a nasty political fight. We have had enough blood spilling in recent times.

I wouldn't be surprised also if this was CS's last year.

The issue with both people is WHO is going to replace them.

Good Presidents and CEOs don't grow on trees. Our focus should be on finding good replacements

The rest of the year will be interesting off the field

I'm trying hard to keep a balanced view and not just jump on some lynching bandwaggon

[deanox 8,770]

Wow that was an essay! Sorry guys...

[dees64 104]

What do you expect the president to say

Has to remain positive as they have invested people & money into the current regime, just cant sack the coach & do a 360 as they will be seen as a joke & who will want to coach us.

Cancer in the senior list & Sylvia,Davey is one of them! Sad both our picks 3&5 from 03, Brock cant get a game & Sylvia a show pony, look at Hawks, hodge,mitchell,lewis,roughead,buddy.....we just cant pick them right!

Dont know if Neeld can coach but need to make a statement & drop senior players Sylvia,Davey

[Deemanding 15]

The president's statement has its points that may well be on the mark,however, if the MFC was listed on the ASX the shares would of plummeted after a bear market rally based on the assumed brighter future of a long time market laggard. The catalyst of the drop is the leading indicator of on field performance which will ultimately impact other areas on the balance sheet The market is not interested about the past or present, something akin to success deprived football supporters, only the what is perceived to be the future. Think Greece is bad, then think again about this penny stock.

[Slartibartfast 16,011]

So what? If you want your name associated with muckrakers that's your choice. It's not damning, not falling for their lttle trap is not the same as not telling the truth

Sorry DC, I read that but not the rest.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Every player that has left for another club has talked about how professional they are etc.compared to Melbourne.

Is this true?

[daisycutter 28,683]

Sorry DC, I read that but not the rest.

well i think you should.....you might be surprised

[Rogue 585]

Is this true?

I don't know that it's strictly accurate that every player has said this, but yeah, it sounds right to me.

TJ and Simon Buckley spring to mind.

[Slartibartfast 16,011]

well i think you should.....you might be surprised

Does it improve? Give me a snippet I might like!

[Flemo56 387]

These bloody trenches are deep but I've found a ladder so i can have a peep ova the edge, couldn't see anything, it was dark, phew, bastards can't see me either.

Mfc thru & thru, this time I'm putting my blind faith into Mr Neeld cause he's here tomorrow to teach our YOUNG fellas what's gotta be done to achieve respect and hopefully change our player attitude and culture of being underachievers. I'm really not into all the past cause thats exactly what it is the PAST as for the political crap, I'm not going to knock the board cause were in a good place finically, aren't we?

I honestly didn't expect DMc to come out with anymore than what he did. I'm old school. If ya get me drift. MN will name names at years end it's his job, he wasn't happy in that coaches box from what I saw, controlled himself far better than i did.

When the whistle blows i'll be ready to go……..effing smelly trench!

[daisycutter 28,683]

Does it improve? Give me a snippet I might like!

Don't be silly Fan. It'd take you 10 secs to read it..........but if you can't be bothered

[Slartibartfast 16,011]

Don't be silly Fan. It'd take you 10 secs to read it..........but if you can't be bothered

Sorry DC but the first comment was so far from my thinking I doubt we have anything in common. And I read slowly!

[rpfc 27,633]

Wow that was an essay! Sorry guys...

Just an excellent post though, deanox.

You do reap what you sow, and the senior players got their crop in full measure this season.

I asked for them to be looked over and they were.

Their response doesn't damn the decision to move them on - it validates and verifies the decision.

[daisycutter 28,683]

Sorry DC but the first comment was so far from my thinking I doubt we have anything in common. And I read slowly!

You're a lost cause Fan. And all because a couple of muckraking journalists asked the question you wanted asked, that you knew DMc wouldn't answer to protect the club from media criticism (whichever way he could have answered it), you somehow feel vindicated.

If you could only be a little more balanced and not so obsessed

[Jaded No More 58,946]

Their response doesn't damn the decision to move them on - it validates and verifies the decision.

True, but where does the collateral damage stop?

What if Frawley and Jones want out too?

What if Trengove, Howe, Watts and Blease are sick of playing for a bottom feeding team?

What if Clark thinks "well I got my millions and nobody else seems to give a sh*t, so why bother"?

You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

There are ways of going about it, and for years now, we've gone about it in the least dignified way.

[Sir Why You Little 34,836]

True, but where does the collateral damage stop?

What if Frawley and Jones want out too?

What if Trengove, Howe, Watts and Blease are sick of playing for a bottom feeding team?

What if Clark thinks "well I got my millions and nobody else seems to give a sh*t, so why bother"?

You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

There are ways of going about it, and for years now, we've gone about it in the least dignified way.

THis is where Mark Neeld & Neil Craig take over.....The problems with the older players can be classified differently.

[Jaded No More 58,946]

THis is where Mark Neeld & Neil Craig take over.....The problems with the older players can be classified differently.

Except that so far all Neeld seems to have done is further plunge us into the depth of despair.

Our players act defeated before the first bounce. Kids who showed promise last year have regressed so far back into their shells, it's frightening.

Nobody is doing anything positive on the field, not even the players we know are talented and tough and promising.

So yes it is absolutely Neeld's job and I do not envy him, but I also don't think he's gone about it the right way. From the outside looking in, it seems like the players are either not buying what he's selling, or too shell shocked to process the message.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Except that so far all Neeld seems to have done is further plunge us into the depth of despair.

Our players act defeated before the first bounce. Kids who showed promise last year have regressed so far back into their shells, it's frightening.

Nobody is doing anything positive on the field, not even the players we know are talented and tough and promising.

So yes it is absolutely Neeld's job and I do not envy him, but I also don't think he's gone about it the right way. From the outside looking in, it seems like the players are either not buying what he's selling, or too shell shocked to process the message.

Some are not buying what he's selling. Others are. I think it's there in plain view for all to see who they are.

We must back Neeld to the hilt to follow through on this process because at the moment he is waging nothing less than a battle for the heart of a footy club.

It's going to get worse before it gets better as he goes about cutting out this cancer.

[deanox 8,770]

Is this true?

Miller and Bruce also come to mind. I can't recall junior saying anything, but I feel I recall woewodin saying something back then as well.

Maybe more accurate to say "a lot of". Judd didn't say it, I can't remember ball saying it, can anyone provide multiple examples off players from another club saying it?

Edited May 21, 2012 by deanox