Everyone Stand Up And Applaud Mark Neeld

[Macca 16,970]

If the players (certain players, certain senior players) are unwilling to go along with the new hard, disciplined approach implemented by the new FD, the new FD comprised of people from successful clubs who know how hard you have to work to finish top 4 consistently and win a flag, then that is absolutely a problem with the players. As has been mentioned by others if guys like Sylvia would rather just do enough to get by as an AFL footballer rather than exerting themselves to go beyond merely getting games and actually being successful then I hope that he or others like him are dropped and then cleaned out at the end of the year. Dropping Sylvia may fix nothing in the short term but it helps to set the standard of what is acceptable and helps to redefine our culture just as moving him (or others like him who refuse to understand how hard they have to work to be a successful modern AFL player) on at the end of the year will.

I am not happy about this either but the fact is we were sold a lemon 4 years ago. Not to say all the work over the last 4 years has been for nought, but the work that has been done is not enough and there is still further work to go (in developing the players drafted since 2007 and in further culling/refining our list). This is not Neeld's (or the new FD's) fault - the people still around who can take some of the blame and should be held accountable are guys like Schwab, McLardy and the board as well as some of the senior players who have been around for long enough now to have built up an elite fitness base (they are paid athletes after all) regardless of the expectations of the prior FD.

I have the feeling I could write a thesis on what is wrong with the MFC but I will leave it there for now and just say that I have complete faith that Neeld is the right man to turn our CULTURE around and this must be achieved before we start seeing results on the field. So whether he will lead us to consistent top 4 and/or a flag remains to be seen but he is the right man for the club right now. We can assess in a couple of years whether he will be the man to take us forward - though I have faith he will be and I think he is definitely going about it the right way. Every champion team has had a basis of strong defense before attack. Melbourne teams for the last 20 years have been the complete opposite which leads us to look very good against mediocre oppisition and against good opposition on off days but when it counts we fall to pieces as we only want to kick goals (as individuals) rather than prevent them (as a team). That is why we got smashed in '88 & 2000, that is why we fell apart in '90, '94, '04, '05 & '06. Our club has a soft underbelly and this is known by everyone else in the AFL.

So this is not a quick fix 3-4 year rebuild this is the complete rebuild of the club from the foundations up. But once it is done it will more than likely not just see us be "competitive" but also successful and successful for long periods that will mean next time we have a downward turn it will not see us down the bottom of the ladder for years at a time.

Well , fair enough Dr Gonzo . I guess the difference between you and I is the faith bit . That is our point of difference . Therefore it's difficult for us to agree . I'm a players man (to a point) and haven't got a lot of time for coaches (unless they win games) . I can't for the life of me work out why an unproven coach can get a 3 year contract . It's too generous . 2 years is ample .

I did like your post though and it will be interesting to see whether or not the club has a clean-out at years end . Whilst I think many believe this will happen I'm not so sure . We've heard that talk before and it rarely happens . Often players put in good performances towards the end of the year thus giving themselves more currency . And often clubs will re-contract players for fear of losing them .

Interesting that you mentioned a complete rebuild . I got taken to task not 3 weeks ago for suggesting a "somewhat part rebuild" . 3 weeks is a long time in footy hey ?

Cheers

Edited May 13, 2012 by Macca

[Redleg 40,925]

Davey is a shadow of his former self. Maybe this is speed, maybe its confidence, but all I know is that something is wrong and has been for a while.

He has leg problems and will never be as good as he was. Take that as gospel.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

How could certain players survive this year Macca?

We are sitting below GW$ & the GC $un$

The value of our list is diminishing by the hour.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

Well , fair enough Dr Gonzo . I guess the difference between you and I is the faith bit . That is our point of difference .

Yeah I figured that would be the case as I was writing it but what other options do we have really? I guess it is not mere faith I actually think Neeld is not just saying the "right things" but actually doing the right things (dropping Green, Davey & Watts as examples, dropping the leadership group, working the players hard over pre-season to get them to the required fitness and letting them know there are new standards to be met etc)

I'm a players man (to a point) and haven't got a lot of time for coaches (unless they win games) . I can't for the life of me work out why an unproven coach can get a 3 year contract . It's too generous . 2 years is ample .

I disagree with this. What can you definitively say about a coach after two years (considering most re-contracting will be done during the season it is likely to be one and a half seasons or so.) And you can't really just extend his contract for one year so it is likely you will then be locked in for 4 years minimum. A 3 year contract I think is fine it gives the coach ample time to try and influence the list and get some results with his gameplan/beliefs. A 2 year contract is likely to end up a 4 year contract (just as we extended Bailey's contract a year early to try and prevent the "coach in peril" headlines).

We've heard that talk before and it rarely happens . Often players put in good performances towards the end of the year thus giving themselves more currency . And often clubs will re-contract players for fear of losing them .

I can't necessarily disagree but I feel Neeld will be more aggressive in trying to shop some of these serial under-performers around if he doesn't think he can get the penny to drop.

Interesting that you mentioned a complete rebuild . I got taken to task not 3 weeks ago for suggesting a "somewhat part rebuild" . 3 weeks is a long time in footy hey ?

When I say complete rebuild I mean beginning in 2007-08 and ongoing now. I don't mean another complete rebuild beginning with Neeld, Neeld is continuing the rebuild that was begun previously and that is still yet to bear fruit.

[Macca 16,970]

How could certain players survive this year Macca?

We are sitting below GW$ & the GC $un$

The value of our list is diminishing by the hour.

Well , lets look at last year . We had a poor year in all reality but who did we delist ? Wonna went home , Maric and Miller were picked up by Richmond after we delisted them . Warnock went to the Gold Coast for pick 52 (Tynan) .

That's it I think . I don't remember too many on this site pushing for a major rebuild yet we had a poor year .

[dee-eee 231]

Feeling sorry for Neeld ? What ??? Virtually every assistant coach would kill for the chance to coach at senior level - think of someone like Brian Royal. Neeld would be on at least $300k+ for at least a few years and if things go pear shape he would "tragically" have to return to an assistant position elsewhere at about 90k. Terry Wallace would be financially set up for life having somehow obtained a five year contract at Tigerland. Neeld is living his dream !

Edited May 13, 2012 by dee-eee

[Hardnut 327]

I like the optimism of your post Dr Gonzo, but a few points miss the mark.

Complete faith in Neeld is pushing it a bit far for a first year coach!

A complete rebuild taking more than 3-4 years - the world will change in that time!

All successful teams have good defences - yes, but there is a massive difference between the Geelong and Collingwood models!

Player development is the responsibility of the coach (and coaches) - how much skill work was done over the preseason for example, or how much team ball movement?

A complete clean-out at the end of the year is not possible at any club, even if desirable, and will not happen.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

Well , lets look at last year . We had a poor year in all reality but who did we delist ? Wonna went home , Maric and Miller were picked up by Richmond after we delisted them . Warnock went to the Gold Coast for pick 52 (Tynan) .

That's it I think . I don't remember too many on this site pushing for a major rebuild yet we had a poor year .

Sylvia Moloney & Davey could all be done. Jamar maybe, we need kids and experience. What we have is not up to it.

Particularly Sylvia. He must go. Sorry Col. Friday night was a joke.

[Macca 16,970]

When I say complete rebuild I mean beginning in 2007-08 and ongoing now. I don't mean another complete rebuild beginning with Neeld, Neeld is continuing the rebuild that was begun previously and that is still yet to bear fruit.

Even though I'm a players man we need a part rebuild . 6 years of failure is more than enough . It's time to face facts with a number of players . I reckon a number were lucky to be on our list this year . We were hamstrung by the draft . If we had another pick last year it might have been in the late 60's .

Free agency allows more movement within our list and we might be able to trade for players or picks . Plus , of course , our picks in the national draft . I could see us turning over 8-10 players but it probably won't happen for reasons I pointed out in an earlier post .

Edited May 13, 2012 by Macca

[Pates 9,660]

I think people might be misinterpreting Neeled's common message through the media about building. A lot of people are seeing that as a complete rebuild (ala Bailey coming in and cleaning house), the fact that he didn't do that this year leads me to believe that what he sees in the playing group is potential, save for a few key components (star mid etc). But what he's building from scratch is a game plan, and this is an incremental thing, it will take time and a level of fitness that we currently don't have.

Complete faith is a little optimistic in a first year coach, but bear in mind that we were not the only ones gunning for him. We BEAT Adelaide in securing his services, and he was being closely checked by St Kilda as soon as Lyon flew the coop. It's fair to question him, he's not above reproach, but it feels like a lot of suggestions and criticisms coming from the media are about short term fixes and it's clear to me that Neeled will not stray from this path. I also feel that he has total support from the club, which is a nice change.

I get the feeling there will be some tough decisions made at the end of the year, and players that have coasted through their careers with us will be showed the door.

[Macca 16,970]

Sylvia Moloney & Davey could all be done. Jamar maybe, we need kids and experience. What we have is not up to it.

Particularly Sylvia. He must go. Sorry Col. Friday night was a joke.

Well right now you'd be close to being on the money . But I've seen many players turn it around - especially near the end of a season .

We've seen all 4 of the players you've mentioned play some good footy in the past . They could all play a hell of a lot better but I'm not putting a line through any of them yet . Davey and Sylvia are contracted . On good coin ?

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

Well right now you'd be close to being on the money . But I've seen many players turn it around - especially near the end of a season .

We've seen all 4 of the players you've mentioned play some good footy in the past . They could all play a hell of a lot better but I'm not putting a line through any of them yet . Davey and Sylvia are contracted . On good coin ?

The past is not the future. That is my point. All 4 are past it. Sylvia should be ripping but he is not mentally tough enough & the injuries have not helped that.

[Macca 16,970]

The past is not the future. That is my point. All 4 are past it. Sylvia should be ripping but he is not mentally tough enough & the injuries have not helped that.

I'd put Sylvia in the centre . Our midfield isn't doing a lot anyway . The other 3 need to do more as well . But so do a lot on our list .

[Adam The God 30,259]

I think he's trying but the game looks to have passed him by. I hope he can turn it around but he hasn't fired a shot for 2 years now.

Completely agree.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

I'd put Sylvia in the centre . Our midfield isn't doing a lot anyway . The other 3 need to do more as well . But so do a lot on our list .

Interesting idea. Worth a look. We cannot get worse!!

[bandicoot 1,395]

Kahuna's ? To take on a head coaching job ?

They either remain an assistant on way less money or take the job of a head coach on about 3 - 5 times more money . Often with a 3 year guarantee . Sympathy for any coaches , any time , is misguided . Go and join the general workforce if you can't handle being a head coach . Oh , and be prepared for a bit of a paycut .

Coaches get well renumerated for their time . At least 6-7 times the average Australian wage and up to 15 times this amount . And there is a fairly good life after coaching . They're not forced to do it .

At the moment all Neeld has proven is that we don't know if he can coach or not . His game plan is ridiculous and won't work . It's only a matter of time before somebody in the media will take his outdated game plan to task . And then watch all the others jump in like vultures . Hardest team to play against ? What an absolute joke . Now , he might or should get much better . I hope so , but only those with blind faith will guarantee that .

Pressure needs to be put on Neeld . It should have happened after round 2 . He needs to abandon this game plan altogether and start again . I hope he's not too stubborn to change . All our attacking flair and creativity has vanished . Our teamwork is virtually non existant . That is Neeld's fault . The buck stops with him , as it should . I'm not calling for his head but he needs to lift his game .

The players don't get off the hook . Only Clark , Jones , Magner and maybe Bartram , Howe , McKenzie , McDonald and Rivers have had acceptable years so far . The rest are either way below form , injured or not good enough .

Well said ... Neeld hasnt proven anything and needs to now be made accountable for his actions

[Je Roos Salem 661]

I must say I like him as a person and he's the right man but I really don't see much hope in the way we are playing, apart from when we kick it to Clark 1-on-1 and run through the middle. He needs to start dropping players who can't kick, as they are killing us as we are trying to play slowish footy around the lines. However we are constantly turning it over and are too slow and not getting enough of the ball. The good news is that players like Howe seem to have much more confidence, as well as Davey who seems rejuvenated, though it doesn't show on the stats sheet he has been one of our top players. It seems Neeld is trying to get a group of players and try and turn them into something rather than dropping based on form and changing it around. I await the return of Green and Jurrah to our forward line. I think Grimes and Trengove are down in form, which coincidentally happened to Green last year after he was given the captaincy. Maybe we should give the captaincy to a crap player? Food for thought.

P.S- Mark Neeld wears glasses so he seems smart.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

And just for the record, why should I stand up and applaud Neeld when we have lost all of our games, we are sitting at the bottom, which was surely unthinkable pre-season. Actually, many of you who are happy with where we are now wouldn't have been had you been told pre-season. A lot of you probably thought Neeld would give us at least more wins than our last two Bailey seasons. If you as a supporter are always comfortable accepting where we are at then you are accepting failure. If we don't win a game for the season some people will still use "rebuilding" "List management" "Adapting for the long run", coincidentally these are the same nutcases who talk about the draft early on in the season. Yes ooo lets look at the 2028 draft, hmm that Jamison RIchards looks a good choice, oooo he's got a hard body just what we need going forward in 16 years..ooo maybe our grandkids will get to see a premiership but that's ok cause I don't care if i'm dead as long as it happens. Ooo I wonder can we pick Jamison's son Bradford in the 2058 draft? ooo I hear he's got his dad's toughness but he can play forward too

[bing181 9,238]

Actually, many of you who are happy with where we are now ....

Who's happy with where we are now? Care to name names to back that up?

I can't see that anyone's happy at all. And not just on Demonland either. McLardy's not happy. Neeld's not happy. The players aren't happy.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Who's happy with where we are now? Care to name names to back that up?

I can't see that anyone's happy at all. And not just on Demonland either. McLardy's not happy. Neeld's not happy. The players aren't happy.

Perhaps the maker of this thread?

[bing181 9,238]

Well if he's saying all this and the players aren't listening to him then that's a problem yeah ?

If it was as simple as just saying "go out and do x and y and z like we practiced at training", and instantly the whole team started doing it perfectly, every club would win the flag every year.

[bing181 9,238]

Perhaps the maker of this thread?

??? Where did he say he was happy with where we were?

[Je Roos Salem 661]

??? Where did he say he was happy with where we were?

Ah well he's clearly happy with Mark Neeld and what he's doing for the club, unless you're being sarcastic

[Macca 16,970]

If it was as simple as just saying "go out and do x and y and z like we practiced at training", and instantly the whole team started doing it perfectly, every club would win the flag every year.

Who said anything about perfection ? We are nowhere near a pass mark , forget about perfection .

I fail to see how my questioning Neeld's gameplan converts to me expecting to win a flag . I'm not alone in questioning this gameplan .

Is there any other team out there playing a similar style of play to ours ? We're 18th on the ladder with a woeful percentage .

[Rogue 585]

He's been prepared to put self-satisfied noses out of joint, sack ineffectual leaders, drop trade soft no. 1 draft picks and most importantly completely dismantle a useless game plan that would have seen us fold under the first sign of trouble in a final.

And he's prepared to get flogged week-in week-out for priority picks, enduring the inevitable calls for his sacking by supporters fearful of change, in order to get the job done.

Hard as f..!k this bloke and I for one stand up and applaud him for having the cojones to put his own future in the game on the line...

Nice post, but odd that you're talking about DB a few years after the fact.

Oh wait...

I find it funny that some people on here actually believe Neeld doesn't want the players to [...] be daring and bold.

Really? I reckon there's a clear preference from Neeld for the players to go down the line, take safer options, etc.