Drafting Analysis: 2007 - 2009

[Bay Riffin 1,427]

Action could have been taken though. They didn't do it. We pay whilst they have left.

hang on ? what action. Are you suggesting we would have changed our mind and taken Martiin based on an interview?

I am wondering how good an interviewer he is to make us change our mind on a standout number 1 at the time and a bloke who tore it up in the SANFL finals !! remember hinsight only shows now what Martin has done.

2009 draft will be the least of our worries fellas. we have got some great quality in it.

Crying over not interviewing Martin because Scully left is a waste of time.

i wish they just didn't interview Fitzpatrick but the rest will be fine.

[jumbo returns 6,596]

Oh yes - I'd forgotten/neglected that they made a prelim in 04 and were some Nick Davis magic away from the prelim in 2005.

The Dogs offered us pick 39 for Bate.

They uumed and aahed for the most part of 2 days - I'm talking about the Dogs. The paperwork was never going to be finalised.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Out of interest here is a few more years:

2006

James Frawley

Ricky Petterd

Colin Garland

Isaac Weetra

Daniel Hayes ®

2005

Nathan Jones

Simon Buckley

Clint Bartram

Heath Neville ®

Jace Bode ®

Dan Hughes ®

Shane Neaves ®

Andre Gianfagna ®

2004

Matthew Bate

Lynden Dunn

Michael Newton

Brendan Van Schaik ®

Matthew Warnock ®

[Hells Gates 505]

Thanks for the report!

One of my concerns going into the game and indeed the season is our lack of pace. If Blease and Davey are playing forward we don't appear to have much line-breaking run from the backline or through the middle. Did Port look considerably quicker than us?

A huge difference in the speed of the two teams - Port were much faster.

[Hells Gates 505]

Out of interest here is a few more years:

2006

James Frawley

Ricky Petterd

Colin Garland

Isaac Weetra

Daniel Hayes ®

2005

Nathan Jones

Simon Buckley

Clint Bartram

Heath Neville ®

Jace Bode ®

Dan Hughes ®

Shane Neaves ®

Andre Gianfagna ®

2004

Matthew Bate

Lynden Dunn

Michael Newton

Brendan Van Schaik ®

Matthew Warnock ®

STOP IT!!! Haha.

We are in a world of she-ite dont worry about that.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,994]

i wish they just didn't interview Fitzpatrick but the rest will be fine.

Why the hate for Fitpatrick? He's showing a fair bit already. Give him a few more years and you'll be screaming his name in adulation.

[Hells Gates 505]

The best exercise is to look at the 10 players picked after ours and realistically judge which you would pick over who we took. People seem to focus on who we missed without considering the flipside of those others that were chosen around the mark. It is reasonable to start judging 2007 and maybe 2008 but 2009 is still way too early to guess and even if I did this exercise next year I am sure my views would change across all 3 years. Based on the 150 players chosen after our picks, 43 of them I would have picked ahead of who we chose. To me this is a pretty mediocre effort but it would look a whole lot better if we had landed a clear star in that period.

4. Morton, 5. Jarrad Grant, 6. David Myers, 7. Rhys Palmer, 8. Lachie Henderson, 9. Ben McEvoy, 10. Patrick Dangerfield, 11. Patrick Vezspremi, 12, Cyril Rioli, 13. Brad Ebert, 14. Jack Grimes. (4 of 10)

14. Grimes, 15. Robbie Tarrant, 16. Matthew Lobbe, 17. Harry Taylor, 18. Alex Rance, 19. Callan Ward, 20. Tony Notte, 21. Addam Maric, 22. Scott Selwood, 23. Tayte Pears, 24. Clayton Hinkley (2 of 10)

21. Addam Maric, 22. Scott Selwood, 23. Tayte Pears, 24. Clayton Hinkley, 25. Brett Meredith, 26. Andy Otten, 27. Marlon Motlop, 28. Brendan Whitecross, 29. Jarran Jacky, 30. John McCarthy, 31 Levi Greenwood (6 of 10)

53. Kyle Cheney, 54. Cale Hooker, 55. Mark Johnson, 56. Matt Austin, 57. Fraser Gerhig, 58. Tony Armstrong, 59 Craig Bird, 60. Jaxson Barham, 61. Adam Donohue, 62 Josh Smith. 63 Guy Okeefe (3 of 10)

1. Jack Watts, 2. Nick Natanui, 3. Stephen Hill, 4. Hamish Hartlett, 5. Michael Hurley, 6. Chris Yarran, 7. Daniel Rich, 8. Tyrone Vickery, 9. Jack Ziebell, 10. Phil Davis, 11. Steel Sidebottom. (3 of 10)

17. Sam Blease, 18. Luke Shuey, 19 James Strauss, 20 Tom Swift, 21 Haydn Ballantyne, 22, Jackson Trengove, 23, David Zaharakis, 24 Nick Suban, 25 Jack Redden, 26, Jayden Post, 27 Sam Wright, (4 of 10)

19 James Strauss, 20 Tom Swift, 21 Haydn Ballantyne, 22, Jackson Trengove, 23, David Zarakis, 24 Nick Suban, 25 Jack Redden, 26, Jayden Post, 27 Sam Wright, 28 Shaun McKernan, 29 Dayne Beams, (6 of 10)

35. Jamie Bennell, 36 Ashley Smith, 37 Zac Clarke, 38 Matt Broadbent, 39 Steven Motlop, 40 Mitch Robinson, 41 Todd Banfield, 42 Mitch banner, 43 Liam Anthony, 44 Rory Sloane, 45 Jarrad Blight.(3 of 10)

51. Nev Jetta, 52 Jordon Jones, 53 Michael Walters, 54 Jarrad Redden, 55 Michael Still, 56 Ben Bucovacz, 57 Aaron Cornelius, 58 Tom Hislop, 59 Tom Lee, 60 Cambell Heath, 61 Alistair Smith (1 of 10)

1. Tom Scully, 2. Jack Trengove, 3. Dustin Martin, 4. Anthony Morabito, 5 Ben Cunnington, 6. Gary Rohan, 7, Brad Sheppherd, 8. John Butcher, 9. Andrew Moore, 10. Jake Melksham, 11 Jordan Gysberts (3 of 10)

2. Jack Trengove, 3. Dustin Martin, 4. Anthony Morabito, 5 Ben Cunnington, 6. Gary Rohan, 7, Brad Sheppherd,8. John Butcher, 9. Andrew Moore, 10. Jake Melksham, 11 Jordan Gysberts, 12. Kane Lucas (1 of 10)

11. Jordan Gysberts, 12 Kane Lucas, 13. Daniel Talia, 14 Lewis Jetta, 15 Christian Howard, 16 Jasper Pittard, 17. Daniel Menzel, 18 Luke Tapscott, 19 Ben Griffiths, 20 Nathan Fyfe, 21 Ryan Bastinac (2 of 10)

18. Luke Tapscott, 19 Ben Griffiths, 20 Nathan Fyfe, 21 Ryan Bastinac, 22 Gerrick Wheedon, 23 Koby Stevens, 24 Jake Carlisle, 25 Aaron Black. 26 Travis Colyer, 27 Callum Bartlett, 28 Mitch Duncan (3 of 10)

34 Max Gawn, 35 David Astbury, 36 Joel Houghton, 37. Jamie McMillan, 38, Sam Reid, 39. Sam Grimley, 40 Allen Christensen, 41 Ayden Kennedy, 42 Nathan Vardy, 43 Marcus Davies, 44 Matthew Dea, (2 of 10)

50. Jack Fitzpatrick, 51. Troy Taylor, 52 Justin Bollenhagen, 53 Brayden Norris, 54 Byron Sumner, 55 Trent Dennis Lane, 56 Josh Cowan, 57 Jordan Williams, 58 Rhan Hooper, 59 Rohan Kerr, 60 Jesse Smith, 61, James Craig (0 of 10)

Excellent post mate. Wow, this really opens our eyes doesnt it. BP has left us in no mans land. The only difference i have is I would have taken Vardy over Gawn - I remember wishing for it before the draft. Vardy has way more potential but has done his knee now, but at least only once, not 3 times. I dont know why we went for Gawn considering his knee reco's before the draft.

BP's thinking is beyond me in alot of these cases.

[Sir Why You Little 35,170]

hang on ? what action. Are you suggesting we would have changed our mind and taken Martiin based on an interview?

I am wondering how good an interviewer he is to make us change our mind on a standout number 1 at the time and a bloke who tore it up in the SANFL finals !! remember hinsight only shows now what Martin has done.

2009 draft will be the least of our worries fellas. we have got some great quality in it.

Crying over not interviewing Martin because Scully left is a waste of time.

i wish they just didn't interview Fitzpatrick but the rest will be fine.

C'mon Bay. Not interviewing Martin is just shocking planning. Our past recriuters were to cute on that one. And we have paid for it. Who knows whether it would have changed a decision. But to not bother is just not due diligence. Martin was always talked up at 3, so all those three picks were coin tosses.

Very poor form. But too late now sadly.

Edited March 17, 2012 by why you little

[Hells Gates 505]

C'mon Bay. Not interviewing Martin is just shocking planning. Our past recriuters were to cute on that one. And we have paid for it. Who knows whether it would have changed a decision. But to not bother is just not due diligence. Martin was always talked up at 3, so all those three picks were coin tosses.

Very poor form. But too late now sadly.

Just ignorance, lazyness and cockyness. Martin was in the AA team and was a gun.

No wonder BP left and took up a coaching career because he certainly was she-ite at recruiting.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

C'mon Bay. Not interviewing Martin is just shocking planning. Our past recriuters were to cute on that one. And we have paid for it. Who knows whether it would have changed a decision. But to not bother is just not due diligence. Martin was always talked up at 3, so all those three picks were coin tosses. Very poor form. But too late now sadly.

Anyone that watched both Martin and Scully play and then decided not to interview Martin is/was in the wrong job.

Imagine if we had both Martin and Darling running around for us now, I saw Cook the other day at the Commencement dinner and he is like a large stick insect he even makes Morton look solid.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Excellent post, fire engine.

I'm surprised you didn't highlight Gary Rohan or Steele Sidebottom though - both great players.

[Guest Dr Who]

This is be far the funniest thread I think I ever read - well done Clint LMAO.

[Sir Why You Little 35,170]

Imagine if we had both Martin and Darling running around for us now, I saw Cook the other day at the Commencement dinner and he is like a large stick insect he even makes Morton look solid.

It was obvious BP recruited runners not the solid grunt.

Watching the 2011 GF that was 90% grunt. GF's are always grunt. So i honestly don't follow the strategy. 2 years of list management for what??

[Arsene Wenger 72]

2007

Cale Morton - Jury still out. No-brainer selection at the time, as was Tambling. Always a long term development prospect - still needs time, but would have liked to have seen more to date. Undoubted offensive talent. Injuries have been cruel.

Jack Grimes - Very good selection. Captain at 22. Has suffered from injuries.

Addam Maric - Poor selection. Has great disposal, but small tank, defensive light-weight, lacks toughness and doesn't win his own ball.

Kyle Cheney - Average selection at this stage. KPD in a HBF body. Disposal wasn't great. We upgraded through trade.

Tom McNamara - Speculative selection that failed. Bottom-age medium-tall 3rd defender who eventually developed the capacity to play on-ball. Didn't develop as hoped. Became a bit of a jack-of-all-trades. Possibly one lost due to lightweight football dept spending at the time.

Stefan Martin - Good selection. Ruck project. Paying dividends considering his selection. Athletically gifted - just needs to learn the game. Poor man's NicNat?

Trent Zomer ® - Failed late pick.

Austin Wonaeamirri ® - Was a win for a while. Shame.

Jake Spencer ® - So far an average selection. Looks like we could get value out of him yet.

Shane Valenti ® - Failed late pick. Has talent, but just not good enough at AFL level.

2008

Jack Watts - Good pick. Bottom-age player. Has a lot of elite qualities that you look for in a player. Attacking the ball or man with vigour is not yet one of them. No reason why he shouldn't become a very very good AFL player. Still developing physically and learning the game. Lack of a decent KPF to show him the way may have hampered his development.

Sam Blease - good pick. Bottom-age player held back by injuries. When he has played, has displayed elite qualities. Still developing. Would have a lot of value if we wanted to trade him, so that should be a sign.

James Strauss - good-average pick. Athletically gifted. Heavily under-rated. Injuries have held him back to date, but has developed well physically. Took some time adjusting to AFL level, but is beginning to look a lot more comfortable there. Could have elite skills. Not enough exposed form to properly judge.

Jamie Bennell - good pick. Unfairly maligned, but has had a passable output to date. Needs a lot more consistency, but it isn't beyond him. Some players chosen after him have done much better, but he has shown some special things. It's all upstairs for Jamie.

Neville Jetta - average pick. Toughness, good at maintaining possession. Not as athletic as you'd like. Not much exposed form to date. Injuries have hurt.

Rohan Bail - good late pick. Runs all day.

Liam Jurrah - great value pick.

Jordie McKenzie ® - great value pick.

Rhys Healey ® - failed pick.

Daniel Hughes ® - failed pick.

2009

Tom Scully - good selection. No way anyone could foresee him leaving. Disposal comes under criticism, but has enough elite qualities to justify the selection. We may have lost him, but the compensation seems more than fair.

Jack Trengove - great selection. Co-captain already and when comparisons are sought, names like Hird, Bartel and Hoge come out. Don't need to say much more.

Jordan Gysberts - great pick. Developing nicely and looks like being a very good player.

Luke Tapscott - good pick so far. Tough as nail and looks like he'll be an elite kick. Needs to be able to cover more ground, hopefully play in the middle. Not enough exposed form.

Max Gawn - good pick. For a young underdeveloped ruckman he has performed well at AFL level. Fingers crossed on injuries. Needed a ruck.

Jack Fitzpatrick - looks an average pick. Skills look like they'll hold him back. Athletically gifted for his size. Considering we needed a tall, not many other options worth taking in his place.

Joel Macdonald - has been reasonable value. Not much else on offer, and is still capable of getting a game. Leads by example in terms of toughness.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Arsene Wenger

[Arsene Wenger 72]

The best exercise is to look at the 10 players picked after ours and realistically judge which you would pick over who we took. People seem to focus on who we missed without considering the flipside of those others that were chosen around the mark. It is reasonable to start judging 2007 and maybe 2008 but 2009 is still way too early to guess and even if I did this exercise next year I am sure my views would change across all 3 years. Based on the 150 players chosen after our picks, 43 of them I would have picked ahead of who we chose. To me this is a pretty mediocre effort but it would look a whole lot better if we had landed a clear star in that period.

4. Morton, 5. Jarrad Grant, 6. David Myers, 7. Rhys Palmer, 8. Lachie Henderson, 9. Ben McEvoy, 10. Patrick Dangerfield, 11. Patrick Vezspremi, 12, Cyril Rioli, 13. Brad Ebert, 14. Jack Grimes. (4 of 10)

14. Grimes, 15. Robbie Tarrant, 16. Matthew Lobbe, 17. Harry Taylor, 18. Alex Rance, 19. Callan Ward, 20. Tony Notte, 21. Addam Maric, 22. Scott Selwood, 23. Tayte Pears, 24. Clayton Hinkley (2 of 10)

21. Addam Maric, 22. Scott Selwood, 23. Tayte Pears, 24. Clayton Hinkley, 25. Brett Meredith, 26. Andy Otten, 27. Marlon Motlop, 28. Brendan Whitecross, 29. Jarran Jacky, 30. John McCarthy, 31 Levi Greenwood (6 of 10)

53. Kyle Cheney, 54. Cale Hooker, 55. Mark Johnson, 56. Matt Austin, 57. Fraser Gerhig, 58. Tony Armstrong, 59 Craig Bird, 60. Jaxson Barham, 61. Adam Donohue, 62 Josh Smith. 63 Guy Okeefe (3 of 10)

1. Jack Watts, 2. Nick Natanui, 3. Stephen Hill, 4. Hamish Hartlett, 5. Michael Hurley, 6. Chris Yarran, 7. Daniel Rich, 8. Tyrone Vickery, 9. Jack Ziebell, 10. Phil Davis, 11. Steel Sidebottom. (3 of 10)

17. Sam Blease, 18. Luke Shuey, 19 James Strauss, 20 Tom Swift, 21 Haydn Ballantyne, 22, Jackson Trengove, 23, David Zaharakis, 24 Nick Suban, 25 Jack Redden, 26, Jayden Post, 27 Sam Wright, (4 of 10)

19 James Strauss, 20 Tom Swift, 21 Haydn Ballantyne, 22, Jackson Trengove, 23, David Zarakis, 24 Nick Suban, 25 Jack Redden, 26, Jayden Post, 27 Sam Wright, 28 Shaun McKernan, 29 Dayne Beams, (6 of 10)

35. Jamie Bennell, 36 Ashley Smith, 37 Zac Clarke, 38 Matt Broadbent, 39 Steven Motlop, 40 Mitch Robinson, 41 Todd Banfield, 42 Mitch banner, 43 Liam Anthony, 44 Rory Sloane, 45 Jarrad Blight.(3 of 10)

51. Nev Jetta, 52 Jordon Jones, 53 Michael Walters, 54 Jarrad Redden, 55 Michael Still, 56 Ben Bucovacz, 57 Aaron Cornelius, 58 Tom Hislop, 59 Tom Lee, 60 Cambell Heath, 61 Alistair Smith (1 of 10)

1. Tom Scully, 2. Jack Trengove, 3. Dustin Martin, 4. Anthony Morabito, 5 Ben Cunnington, 6. Gary Rohan, 7, Brad Sheppherd, 8. John Butcher, 9. Andrew Moore, 10. Jake Melksham, 11 Jordan Gysberts (3 of 10)

2. Jack Trengove, 3. Dustin Martin, 4. Anthony Morabito, 5 Ben Cunnington, 6. Gary Rohan, 7, Brad Sheppherd,8. John Butcher, 9. Andrew Moore, 10. Jake Melksham, 11 Jordan Gysberts, 12. Kane Lucas (1 of 10)

11. Jordan Gysberts, 12 Kane Lucas, 13. Daniel Talia, 14 Lewis Jetta, 15 Christian Howard, 16 Jasper Pittard, 17. Daniel Menzel, 18 Luke Tapscott, 19 Ben Griffiths, 20 Nathan Fyfe, 21 Ryan Bastinac (2 of 10)

18. Luke Tapscott, 19 Ben Griffiths, 20 Nathan Fyfe, 21 Ryan Bastinac, 22 Gerrick Wheedon, 23 Koby Stevens, 24 Jake Carlisle, 25 Aaron Black. 26 Travis Colyer, 27 Callum Bartlett, 28 Mitch Duncan (3 of 10)

34 Max Gawn, 35 David Astbury, 36 Joel Houghton, 37. Jamie McMillan, 38, Sam Reid, 39. Sam Grimley, 40 Allen Christensen, 41 Ayden Kennedy, 42 Nathan Vardy, 43 Marcus Davies, 44 Matthew Dea, (2 of 10)

50. Jack Fitzpatrick, 51. Troy Taylor, 52 Justin Bollenhagen, 53 Brayden Norris, 54 Byron Sumner, 55 Trent Dennis Lane, 56 Josh Cowan, 57 Jordan Williams, 58 Rhan Hooper, 59 Rohan Kerr, 60 Jesse Smith, 61, James Craig (0 of 10)

The above list doesn't take into account needs in terms of list make-up.

It also doesn't allow for future development and the potential for players to pass others.

And I question some of the "preferred options". It's an exercise in hindsight, and lacks foresight.

I only think it works if you'd today do a straight up trade, and even then it doesn't allow for future development.

- would you really prefer Yarran to Watts? Even NicNat and Hurley I have my doubts. None of them are the finished article.

Hurley was a FB with question marks on pace and going forward, plus his attack on the ball is great, but beyond that he is heavily overrated.

- Harry Taylor or Callan Ward over Grimes? You can't predict the injuries.

- Ballantyne, Zaharakis or Redden over Blease? We're yet to see the best of any of them, but Blease we've seen least of to date. Bottom-age and held back by injuries, remember.

- Ash Smith over Bennell?? Really?

- Butcher over Scully? Even Martin over Trengove?

- Bastinac over Gysberts?? Now you've gotta be joking.

- Reid or Christensen over Gawn is way too early when we've not seen enough of Gawn and we needed a ruck. He was a great prospect. Reid's kicking is still iffy and Christensen was bloody lucky to land in a great program.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Arsene Wenger

[Arsene Wenger 72]

Basically, the way it seems to me, is that under the Bailey regime we drafted for ability and looked to instill the mental side of things in the players.

It would seem that this was done poorly to boot.

Under the new regime, and going by what I know of the Collingwood model, it appears to me, that the aim is to find kids with ability but there is a greater emphasis on them having the requisite confidence, hunger and attitude to succeed, as well as the body to maintain this.

Its something our more maligned players seem to lack - underdeveloped bodies and not enough of the desire and attack on the footy.

It's marginal, but I think the difference is there.

[bing181 8,308]

Two points to contribute to what I nevertheless see as an utterly pointless exercise/thread:

(i) One of the positives to come out of the NAB series has been Nathan Jones. Has been amongst the best every game he's played.

Until this year (2012), there have still been posts characterising him as a "spud", and "not in best 22".

This is his seventh season.

(ii) Another big positive out of the NAB series has been James Magner. Definitely (it would seem), first 22.

He's 24. It has taken him 6 years to reach AFL level.

It simply isn't possible to formulate any reasoned critique of drafting until players are 24 or so, more in the case of big men. By that criteria alone, we have no idea whether BP's drafting was a fail or a success.

[bing181 8,308]

Under the new regime, and going by what I know of the Collingwood model, it appears to me, that the aim is to find kids with ability but there is a greater emphasis on them having the requisite confidence, hunger and attitude to succeed, as well as the body to maintain this.

Fair point. But equally, it could be a change in direction in response to a change in the way footy is played, even changes in the rules (e.g., interchange).

[Guest Dr Who]

Funny because people are allowed their own opinions or funny because you think youre better than everyone else on this site??

No I'm enjoying the opinions. Some of them are great, some of them are funny, its that Ok for me to thank someone?

[Sir Why You Little 35,170]

Fair point. But equally, it could be a change in direction in response to a change in the way footy is played, even changes in the rules (e.g., interchange).

Yes but why do so many other teams get it right so much more than we do??

Look at all the big strong kids we passed up in 3 years.

Depressing really. We all spend large amounts of our $$ on this club.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I see the $6m man had 11 possessions for the Giants today another scorching performance.

[Sir Why You Little 35,170]

I see the $6m man had 11 possessions for the Giants today another scorching performance.

That is a par score Robbie!!

[Hells Gates 505]

I see the $6m man had 11 possessions for the Giants today another scorching performance.

We love to recruit spuds

[bing181 8,308]

Yes but why do so many other teams get it right so much more than we do??

Look at all the big strong kids we passed up in 3 years.

Depressing really. We all spend large amounts of our $$ on this club.

Well, "big strong kids" is a bit of an oxymoron, the best you could hope for is any two of those. In any case, "big strong kids" we signed in the last 3 years:

Clark, Seller, Sheahan, Davis, McDonald, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Williams - and for strong I'd throw in Tapscott and Magner. Eventually, Cook (big is there, strong will come).

[Hells Gates 505]

No I'm enjoying the opinions. Some of them are great, some of them are funny, its that Ok for me to thank someone?

Sure is. Im glad you are enjoying them.

Do you think we have recruited poorly during BP time??