DEATH BY A THOUSAND KICKS

[Pennant St Dee 13,304]

Oh good you got the message.

I just see little quality across the team

Leaving the ranting aside.

How many games are you confident we can win and who will we beat.

I would like to know and I am not trying to take the mickey out of you.

Just interested in your opinion

Old I do not know how many games we will win and if you are going to judge our season on wins and losses then you will be dissapointed. Games we expect to win we may drop some and then we will win a game or two we don't expect to. I expect to see the team improve and without clicheing Bailey be competative - over 4 quarters week in week out.

So in a nutshell I expect 10 -12 wins but will no single out games as whilst I am all for the club planning for the future think as a playing group Neeld will have the boys focussing on games by a week to week basis.

If we don't get the 10 -12 wins but I see improvement and us heading in the right direction I will be somewhat happy. Don't forget Old the way we started 1987 and where we were at mid season.

[hardtack 10,625]

Oh good you got the message.

I just see little quality across the team

Leaving the ranting aside.

How many games are you confident we can win and who will we beat.

I would like to know and I am not trying to take the mickey out of you.

Just interested in your opinion

We beat a fairly strong Pies side and then got thrashed by a very strong Hawthorn side. Pies, Blues, and Cats all got done comprehensively by teams they shouldn't have lost to. So, are you expecting a top 5 comprising Hawks, Port, Lions, Tigers and Adelaide/West Coast?

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

We beat a fairly strong Pies side and then got thrashed by a very strong Hawthorn side. Pies, Blues, and Cats all got done comprehensively by teams they shouldn't have lost to. So, are you expecting a top 5 comprising Hawks, Port, Lions, Tigers and Adelaide/West Coast?

Wasn't so much the loss Hard, it was the ease at which it was allowed to happen. We weren't beaten, we were stomped on.

On paper we too had a pretty reasnoble side (on paper).

Yes it is still the Bank Cup. But it is worrying as well.

[old dee 23,871]

Old I do not know how many games we will win and if you are going to judge our season on wins and losses then you will be dissapointed. Games we expect to win we may drop some and then we will win a game or two we don't expect to. I expect to see the team improve and without clicheing Bailey be competative - over 4 quarters week in week out.

So in a nutshell I expect 10 -12 wins but will no single out games as whilst I am all for the club planning for the future think as a playing group Neeld will have the boys focussing on games by a week to week basis.

If we don't get the 10 -12 wins but I see improvement and us heading in the right direction I will be somewhat happy. Don't forget Old the way we started 1987 and where we were at mid season.

PSD "expect 10 - 12 wins" is my problem I might hope for that many but what is the reality?

I believe 8 tops I am praying for ten but have no confidence we will get them.

I believe one of our biggest problems in 2011 is the same one as 2012.

i.e. very few good senior players, who is going to hold up the team while the kids improve / mature?

Look at Saturday night our best player in Jones was not exactly a verteran.

The senior players were once again among our poorest players as it was in 2011 and I fear in 2012.

We will be competitive against the last half dozen side probably beat most of them.

but once we come up against the top 10 sides our lack of good senior players is exposed.

From my view point this will likely go on for the next few years.

Edited March 11, 2012 by old dee

[old55 23,687]

In hindsight it's not unexpected that Hawthorn, if anyone, would rip us up. Their gameplan aims to defeat the press and we're in kindergarten there.

[hardtack 10,625]

Wasn't so much the loss Hard, it was the ease at which it was allowed to happen. We weren't beaten, we were stomped on.

On paper we too had a pretty reasnoble side (on paper).

Yes it is still the Bank Cup. But it is worrying as well.

I agree that it was worrying but while we let them run all over us without putting up any fight, I also believe we were negatively affected by the whole LJ affair (if we feel flattened by it, imagine how it must be affecting the playing group) and weakened by the omission of players such as Green and Petterd (why was he a late withdrawal by the way?) and the early loss of Magner (any reports on his finger - was it a simple sprain or worse?).

Actually, I would be far more worried if I was a Pies, Blues, Saints or Cats supporter, as their respective teams are more likely to be in a position to play the Hawks in finals, and going on the methodical way in which the hawks pulled us apart, they would already have to be very hot favourites for the Premiership Flag!

Edited March 12, 2012 by hardtack

[dee-luded 2,959]

Thanks for the advise dee-luded

Try it mate, it works.

[old dee 23,871]

I agree that it was worrying but while we let them run all over us without putting up any fight, I also believe we were negatively affected by the whole LJ affair (if we feel flattened by it, imagine how it must be affecting the playing group) and weakened by the omission of players such as Green and Petterd (why was he a late withdrawal by the way?) and the early loss of Magner (any reports on his finger - was it a simple sprain or worse?).

Actually, I would be far more worried if I was a Pies, Blues, Saints or Cats supporter, as their respective teams are more likely to be in a position to play the Hawks in finals, and going on the methodical way in which the hawks pulled us apart, they would already have to be very hot favourites for the Premiership Flag!

Hardtack your last paragraph is like the man standing among the ruins of his house and saying gee I am glad we only got a force 3 cyclone up the road it was 4.

Sorry but I could not help myself.

At least the sides you mention know they have matched them in the past and can prbably do it again.

We have matched the hawks for 2 years in the past 30.

[Akum 2,660]

What gets me is we won the contested possessions & clearances, yet still get smashed.

Last year, when we got smashed, it was because we got smashed in contested possessions & clearances.

This year we've found another way to get smashed.

To me, a one-dimensional game plan is one -dimensional, whichever dimension it involves. And it will always be smashed by a multidimensional game plan like we saw on Saturday.

I'm just hoping that Neeld is smart enough to add other "dimensions" over time. Maybe he will. But that's exactly what I hoped about Bailey.

[hardtack 10,625]

Hardtack your last paragraph is like the man standing among the ruins of his house and saying gee I am glad we only got a force 3 cyclone up the road it was 4.

Sorry but I could not help myself.

At least the sides you mention know they have matched them in the past and can prbably do it again.

We have matched the hawks for 2 years in the past 30.

Fair comment Old Dee, but I would make one change... I'm like the man standing among the ruins of his half built house who is not too concerned because he realises that the foundations are strong and a few lessons have been learned with regards to building a much stronger structure that will hopefully withstand a similar storm in the future :-)

I think I might reserve judgement until May 11th when cyclone Buddy is due to return and see what, if any, lessons have been learned.

[old dee 23,871]

What gets me is we won the contested possessions & clearances, yet still get smashed.

Last year, when we got smashed, it was because we got smashed in contested possessions & clearances.

This year we've found another way to get smashed.

To me, a one-dimensional game plan is one -dimensional, whichever dimension it involves. And it will always be smashed by a multidimensional game plan like we saw on Saturday.

I'm just hoping that Neeld is smart enough to add other "dimensions" over time. Maybe he will. But that's exactly what I hoped about Bailey.

I don't think it is the game plan or the FD or the coaches.

It is the guys that run out for the first bounce.

They are just not good enough.

Could not implement the DB plan and although it is very early days they are not looking flash at implementing this one.

The problem is our senior players are mainly average there are few to get the job done.

IMO it is that simple

[old dee 23,871]

Fair comment Old Dee, but I would make one change... I'm like the man standing among the ruins of his half built house who is not too concerned because he realises that the foundations are strong and a few lessons have been learned with regards to building a much stronger structure that will hopefully withstand a similar storm in the future :-)

I think I might reserve judgement until May 11th when cyclone Buddy is due to return and see what, if any, lessons have been learned.

I like your analogy better at least there is hope in yours.

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

I agree that it was worrying but while we let them run all over us without putting up any fight, I also believe we were negatively affected by the whole LJ affair (if we feel flattened by it, imagine how it must be affecting the playing group) and weakened by the omission of players such as Green and Petterd (why was he a late withdrawal by the way?) and the early loss of Magner (any reports on his finger - was it a simple sprain or worse?).

Actually, I would be far more worried if I was a Pies, Blues, Saints or Cats supporter, as their respective teams are more likely to be in a position to play the Hawks in finals, and going on the methodical way in which the hawks pulled us apart, they would already have to be very hot favourites for the Premiership Flag!

Once the ball is bounced i don't think the LJ situation should be a factor. The game is on.

We always come up with excuses rather than remedies. That is the most worrying factor of this club IMO.

I am not saying they didn't have a go. We won the contested possies. But we had no idea what to do with it when we got it.

Hawthorn are good, but our list should still be able to match the fundamentals (kicking & marking).

Now at least the coach has solid evidence of the scope of his job to make us the Hardest team in the AFL.

[hardtack 10,625]

Once the ball is bounced i don't think the LJ situation should be a factor. The game is on.

You may well be right WYL, but one thing you didn't factor into the equation... they are human ;-)

[Chelly 827]

Once the ball is bounced i don't think the LJ situation should be a factor. The game is on.

But it becomes a factor if the team's preparation is even partly affected by a major distraction. I would class the arrest and gaoling of a team mate and the serious charges that followed to be in that category.

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

But it becomes a factor if the team's preparation is even partly affected by a major distraction. I would class the arrest and gaoling of a team mate and the serious charges that followed to be in that category.

It maybe a factor until the ball is bounced. After that i don't buy it.

And why can it be not used as a motivator "let's show solidarity for Liam?"

Sorry but i am just over excuses. No footy club is ever perfect, just like the world.

It is time the MFC put this attitude on the park.

I hope training was a hard workout today....

[Dr. Mubutu 866]

Rewatching (yeah, yeah, masochism to the max) and another thing that is killing them ATM is the horrible OOB rule that's only in place for the NAB Cup. Since next week holds no sway, surely we can have a practice game that actually has the same rules as the season proper?

[btdemon 482]

The thing that has struck me in all of our NAB Cup games is the preoccupation with defending space is making our players much more conscious of the opposition and less inclined to create our own play. In the games that we looked good in the last two years (albeit usually against inferior sides), we had a free-flowing, creative, attacking style, where we used the corridor.

Neeld observed that we were a good attacking side but crap when the opposition had the ball. We all saw players like Sylvia, Davey etc. fail to apply defensive pressure and bemoaned our lack of mental toughness. Hopefully they will begin to blend the two together. Solid, tough, relentless defence, and free flowing attack when the opportunity presents itself. You can see that players are not playing on instinct and have not internalised the new program yet.

I certainly hope that there is more to the Neeld game plan than "boundary hugging". It's very predictable and almost as horrible to watch as the Ross Lyon style. Already the good teams like Hawthorn have added new dimensions. Of course they have brilliant kicking skills that we don't. It does highlight the need to get Blease, Strauss and Tappy back into the squad. Grimes, although not super accurate by foot, is handy because he runs and breaks the lines.

On another note I think we really missed Green and Petterd on Saturday.

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

Yes. Why is that OOB Rule even being remotely considered??

Its pathetic.

[Macca 17,032]

Yes. Why is that OOB Rule even being remotely considered??

Its pathetic.

A nab cup type OOB rule was in operation from about 1926 to 1939 . Or , at least it was a similar rule ( last person to touch it ? ) The poor folk back then had to put up with it for all those years !

Maybe the "Powers that be" got tired of "boundary hugging football" . History has a habit of repeating itself ! Hard to find documentation on it but Lord knows how it ever worked .

Cheers

Edited March 12, 2012 by Macca

[Pennant St Dee 13,304]

PSD "expect 10 - 12 wins" is my problem I might hope for that many but what is the reality?

I believe 8 tops I am praying for ten but have no confidence we will get them.

I believe one of our biggest problems in 2011 is the same one as 2012.

i.e. very few good senior players, who is going to hold up the team while the kids improve / mature?

Look at Saturday night our best player in Jones was not exactly a verteran.

The senior players were once again among our poorest players as it was in 2011 and I fear in 2012.

We will be competitive against the last half dozen side probably beat most of them.

but once we come up against the top 10 sides our lack of good senior players is exposed.

From my view point this will likely go on for the next few years.

Old Dee from what you've said above we are somewhat on the same line of thinking, where we differ is I believe unlike the previous regime Neeld and the new FD have drawn a line in the sand re senior players. There will be no more games given on reputation alone. Our kids are decent make no mistake we have a bit more size about us in the middle so will not be pushed off the ball as much (Although this may on occassion occur against some sides). Neeld whilst keeping an eye on the future and identifying the young leaders at our club is also looking to the now, hence the reason why the big bodies were brought in and the change in game plan for more of an arm wrestle style of game.

My belief is you will see over the progress of the season the new brigade stepping up and Jones taking big strides. Where improvement in wins will come will be against the likes of St Kilda, North, Dogs, Sydney, Richmond, Freo and those around us. It's not about pulling one out of your ring against one of the top 4 only to drop one you expect to win. By winning our fair share against these sides is where the steps will be taken IMO.

Regular improvement against the Top 4/5 will come from 2014 and beyond

[DirtyDees DDC 187]

I feel sorry for the players. They went through their toughest pre-season ever and still got hammered.

On a possible good note, we had seven top 20 draft picks missing from last Saturday's match due to injury or form - Morton (no 4 pick), Gysberts (12), Cook (12), Grimes (14), Blease (17), Tapscott (18) and Strauss (19).

Will the inclusion of these guys make any difference? Probably not at the moment. Even Grimes was part of the team that got pasted by the Hawks in round 2 last year.

Our biggest problem is we are not turning out top grade players. I look at Zaharakis (B&F at Essendon 2011), Rockliff (B&F Brisbane 2011) and Nat Fyfe of Freo - 3 footballers that we missed in recent drafts - and wonder whether we just recruited badly, or we have been unable to develop the current list. I suspect it's a bit of both.

Imagine if Rockliff, Zaharakis and Fyfe were in our midfield last Saturday night.

[Dr. Mubutu 866]

A nab cup type OOB rule was in operation from about 1926 to 1939 . Or , at least it was a similar rule ( last person to touch it ? ) The poor folk back then had to put up with it for all those years !

Maybe the "Powers that be" got tired of "boundary hugging football" . History has a habit of repeating itself ! Hard to find documentation on it but Lord knows how it ever worked .

Cheers

You are right on that front Macca.

I say, if they're gonna do that for the NAB Cup, bring back the place kick! And no interchanges!

[Bluelegs 36]

I feel sorry for the players. They went through their toughest pre-season ever and still got hammered.

I don't. It was a reality check, now the players will remember exactly where they're at, and how good they need to be. I'm happy they didn't get this wake-up call in the home/away season.

[Macca 17,032]

You are right on that front Macca.

I say, if they're gonna do that for the NAB Cup, bring back the place kick! And no interchanges!

Yep , lace up guernseys , umpires in white so people can use the word "maggot" again ( not me ! ) , caps , Waverley !

Bring it all back !

Cheers .