The Melbourne Midfield

[rpfc 28,500]

I'm going to challenge you on this BH, and others that have said similar. I have absolutely no doubt that Moloney can become a star midfielder. There were a number of games last season (and throughout his career) where he literally dominated. This is supported by the amount of BOGs he got in the Brownlow. Now, before people talk about him only doing it when we are winning, I accept that, but I will throw this one back at you. In 2011, he was our only decent midfielder. Sure Trengove, McKenzie, Jones etc played some good cameos, but Moloney is our number 1. Again, I agree taht he can't shake a tag, but I'll throw this one out there - this is when he needs the support from his teammates to block the tagger or the simple 1% thing of laying a sheppard. You talk about us "finding" our Swan, well, Moloney has all the tricks to be such player. If he can have a couple of guys around him that can play their role, I think you will find Moloney go to another level. The fact that he has dropped a couple of kgs will also help. I often wonder what Judd would be like playing for us. Even he would struggle at times if he didn't have his teammates helping out off the ball.

Wrote something similar in the Moloney thread in The Locker Room.

I agree that Moloney can be a top midfielder, not sure about the Swan reference as he is more of a complete mid where Beamer is an elite, or near elite, clearance player but merely neat and effective around the ground - Swan is a powerhouse around the ground. Finds space, follows up, gets the pill at will.

While Beamer does need help, he also cannot defend the 33% drop in his possessions in losses. He needs to do more.

But this thread is about the midfield as a whole so I don't want to derail it.

We need stars in the midfield and Moloney is our best shot in 2012 but one isn't enough...

We need to get 3 of Trengove, Viney, McKenzie, Gysberts, Bail, and Nicholson, to be in the top 20 mids in the comp in the next 2 to 3 years.

Edited February 12, 2012 by rpfc

[The Chazz 4,077]

Wrote something similar in the Moloney thread in The Locker Room.

I agree that Moloney can be a top midfielder, not sure about the Swan reference as he is more of a complete mid where Beamer is an elite, or near elite, clearance player but merely neat and effective around the ground - Swan is a powerhouse around the ground. Finds space, follows up, gets the pill at will.

While Beamer does need help, he also cannot defend the 33% drop in his possessions in losses. He needs to do more.

But this thread is about the midfield as a whole so I don't want to derail it.

We need stars in the midfield and Moloney is our best shot in 2012 but one isn't enough...

We need to get 3 of Trengove, Viney, McKenzie, Gysberts, Bail, and Nicholson, to be in the top 20 mids in the comp in the next 2 to 3 years.

At the risk of derailing, it's pretty clear, regardless of our views on the subject, what hole $cummy has left. I know we've got those compo picks, still doesn't replace the fact that we lost a number 1 draft pick who (I think) would've been in the Top 10 of the comp in a 2 or 3 seasons time.

[drdrake 3,178]

We all want a star to be in our midfield, but I would take 4-5 very good midfielders over a star any day. I think we have 4-5 midfielders that have the ability to be very good AFL midfielders Trengove, Sylvia, Moloney, Gysberts, Jones, Mckenzie and Viney in the ranks add to this a very good ruck combo in Jamar and Martin. We need to add a little depth and outside quality and our midfield group isn't far away.

[rpfc 28,500]

We all want a star to be in our midfield, but I would take 4-5 very good midfielders over a star any day. I think we have 4-5 midfielders that have the ability to be very good AFL midfielders Trengove, Sylvia, Moloney, Gysberts, Jones, Mckenzie and Viney in the ranks add to this a very good ruck combo in Jamar and Martin. We need to add a little depth and outside quality and our midfield group isn't far away.

Yes, but we need to find our Swan, Ball, Pendlebury, or our Ablett, Bartel, Selwood, or our Dal Santo, Hayes, and Montagna, or our Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell to name the elite teams of recent years that have a few players a cut above the rest that can beat, or match, the best. I hate going against these teams in big matches with a midfield stocked with 'good' players. We tried it under Daniher and it failed - 3 great players beats 6 good players in my opinion.

[Hannibal 5,814]

We may watch football differently BH, especially if you see Gysberts as a potential star. Gysberts, through my eyes, has played well, and shown some of those qualities you mentioned. The thing that I haven't seen in Gysberts is his ability to be a match winner. I've seen Trengove show the qualities that I have no doubt will see him win a match for us, not so much the Gys.

Your reference to Judd playing us doesn't prove much. We don't have anyone to go with him, so he will always look the white pointer-type. It's the games when he plays Geelong (Ling), or St Kilda (Jones), ie. up agaisnt the best taggers in the league. In his early days at Carlton, he didn't have that off-ball support and even for one of the greats, he struggled a bit. Now though, the players around him have stepped up and supported him around the stoppages, and that's why they are a top 4 side. That's the opinion of a number of Carlton supporters I know, and they attend nearly all Carlton games. But, with Judd, he's a superstar, and you're right, he'd still be that way in red and blue.

With Moloney, in 2011 there were a number of games where he just demanded the ball and tore the opposition a new one, he was untouchable. I'm not going to say he will be udd-like, but I honestly think he can be Swan-like. You seem to think he has nearly reached his ceiling, I think he has a fair bit to go, but it will require other players around him to step up and play roles. Time will tell, you may be right, I may be right, but even if/when we improve and we are that better side, I can't see Moloney not being in our top 3 midfielders (providing it's within the next 5 years!).

Judd had sore groins when he first went to Carlton and still won their B&F. He'd lost some of his explosiveness, but he was still good enough to play the game at a different level.

How many games has Gysberts played ? This is a big year for Gysberts and I expect the footy world to start sitting up and taking notice.

As for Moloney ? "Elite" says one poster, our potential superstar says you. Fair enough. I respect what he's done in his career, but I don't overly rate him. He'll struggle to get a game in 2014. I think this is where we say, "we'll agree to differ".

[rjay 24,940]

Concur.

Yes. And as BH stated in his post of those mids of each of those clubs are indeed the difference. Contested ball, nous, efficient execution in traffic. That's what we need.

rjay, it may have a little to do with set-up. But it's the quality mids and their support cast that the above clubs ^ set themselves apart from the also-rans in the main. We need quality developed mids with poise, nous, strength, class. The current experienced mids we have, simply don't have all of these qualities. And as BH alluded to, when they're the support cast to our 'unearthed stars' (whoever they may be), we should be in a much better position as a team.

Set up and ongoing development, the top midfielders all took time to develop. I think there are a few in our current crop that will stand up going forward.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Judd had sore groins when he first went to Carlton and still won their B&F. He'd lost some of his explosiveness, but he was still good enough to play the game at a different level.

How many games has Gysberts played ? This is a big year for Gysberts and I expect the footy world to start sitting up and taking notice.

As for Moloney ? "Elite" says one poster, our potential superstar says you. Fair enough. I respect what he's done in his career, but I don't overly rate him. He'll struggle to get a game in 2014. I think this is where we say, "we'll agree to differ".

I'm not sure what your Judd comment is about? He won their B&F because at that stage, their young guns hadn't come on, so it's not surprising that a player of his ability won the B&F, even if he was carrying an injury in some games. But now that his body is right, and his fellow midfiled group have gone to that next level, it's just helped Judd dominate even more (scary isn't it??!!). Sounds similar to Moloney in 2011 and hopefully in 2012-2015, and the point that we are disagreeing on.

Big call re. struggling to get a game in 2014. We'll see, but I think it'll be more about his body holding up than his ability. But, like when we talk about Trengove, Watts, and (for some) Gysberts, the word potential keeps coming up.

We both need each other to be wrong and right about 2 topics - I need to be right about Moloney, and you need to be right about Gysberts!

The one thing that I want to see from our entire midfield group this year is consistency. If we have 10 players that we have rotating through, we can't afford to have 6-8 of them down. We need to have 8 performing the roles required. Gone are the days where we say "no Moloney - no Melbourne". We need opposition sides to worry that if they stop Moloney, who are they going to get to stop Trengove, McKenzie, Grimes, Gysberts, etc. The day that happens is the day that we'll be a contender.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I'm not sure what your Judd comment is about? He won their B&F because at that stage, their young guns hadn't come on, so it's not surprising that a player of his ability won the B&F, even if he was carrying an injury in some games. But now that his body is right, and his fellow midfiled group have gone to that next level, it's just helped Judd dominate even more (scary isn't it??!!). Sounds similar to Moloney in 2011 and hopefully in 2012-2015, and the point that we are disagreeing on.

Big call re. struggling to get a game in 2014. We'll see, but I think it'll be more about his body holding up than his ability. But, like when we talk about Trengove, Watts, and (for some) Gysberts, the word potential keeps coming up.

We both need each other to be wrong and right about 2 topics - I need to be right about Moloney, and you need to be right about Gysberts!

The one thing that I want to see from our entire midfield group this year is consistency. If we have 10 players that we have rotating through, we can't afford to have 6-8 of them down. We need to have 8 performing the roles required. Gone are the days where we say "no Moloney - no Melbourne". We need opposition sides to worry that if they stop Moloney, who are they going to get to stop Trengove, McKenzie, Grimes, Gysberts, etc. The day that happens is the day that we'll be a contender.

You said in your penultimate post, "In his early days at Carlton, he didn't have that off-ball support and even for one of the greats, he struggled a bit". In response to that I said, "Judd had sore groins when he first went to Carlton and still won their B&F". So I'm bemused by your comment above, "I'm not sure what your Judd comment is about ?". Really ? I would have thought it patently obvious. Nonetheless ... yes, of course Judd will be better in a better team with more support around him. That's stating the bleeding obvious. I'm saying that Judd would still be a star in an ordinary team, just not as effective. It's a matter of degrees. If you're familiar with groins you'd know he wasn't sore in "some games", it troubled him all year. He could hardly walk in his last games at West Coast and ultimately called his season short. My other point about him being a "white pointer" was to accentuate the fact that he is so good at winning contests and his own ball. When you're as good as he is in this regard you'll always hold your own, even in poor teams. And he more than held his own.

I'm not that enamoured with your last paragragh. It's highly unlikely that we'd have "6-8" players that rotate through the midfield "down" at any one time. What's far more likely is that they aren't good enough and are shown up against quality opposition. My view is that if we're able to develop two or three genuine "guns" the aforementioned players that rotate through the midfield will become more valuable players, just like Judd improves those around him. It's far more important to develop 2 or 3 genuine gun mids than worry about the support acts being down. You'll find that they won't be down - well not that many anyway - if they're surrounded by such quality. If you've got "stars" the rest starts looking after itself. I hope I don't need to point out that stars can't do it by themselves. Of course, I acknowledge that your best players still need to be supported by quality, otherwise a flag will go beckoning.

But if you simply mean we've been lacking grunt in the middle, of course you're right.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[The Chazz 4,077]

You said in your penultimate post, "In his early days at Carlton, he didn't have that off-ball support and even for one of the greats, he struggled a bit". In response to that I said, "Judd had sore groins when he first went to Carlton and still won their B&F". So I'm bemused by your comment above, "I'm not sure what your Judd comment is about ?". Really ? I would have thought it patently obvious. Nonetheless ... yes, of course Judd will be better in a better team with more support around him. That's stating the bleeding obvious. I'm saying that Judd would still be a star in an ordinary team, just not as effective. It's a matter of degrees. If you're familiar with groins you'd know he wasn't sore in "some games", it troubled him all year. He could hardly walk in his last games at West Coast and ultimately called his season short. My other point about him being a "white pointer" was to accentuate the fact that he is so good at winning contests and his own ball. When you're as good as he is in this regard you'll always hold your own, even in poor teams. And he did more than held his own.

I'm not that enamoured with your last paragragh. It's highly unlikely that we'd have "6-8" players that rotate through the midfield "down" at any one time. What's far more likely is that they aren't good enough and are shown up against quality opposition. My view is that if we're able to develop two or three genuine "guns" the aforementioned players that rotate through the midfield will become more valuable players, just like Judd improves those around him. It's far more important to develop 2 or 3 genuine gun mids than worry about the support acts being down, or not. You'll find that they won't be down - well not that many anyway - if they're surrounded by such quality. If you've got "stars" the rest starts looking after itself. I hope I don't need to point out that stars can't do it by themselves. Of course, I acknowledge that your best players still need to be supported by quality, otherwise a flag will go beckoning.

But if you simply mean we've been lacking grunt in the middle, of course you're right.

In my original post, I said Judd would struggle "at times" even if he played for Melbourne. It would be those games where he needs help breaking those tags, which in his first season at Carlton, he didn't get, just like what happened with Moloney in 2011, and to some degree Flash in 2010. Now, obviosuly he had his injury issues in that first season with Carlton, but you can't blame every poor game that he played on injury. Those games against quality taggers required more assistance from his teammates to block and help shake a tag, but they struggled to do it. Now that they do it, and obviosuly he has his body right, Judd is playing as good as ever, and his teammates are playing better footy as well (mainly because the likes of Murphy and Gibbs are just that bit older, bit bigger).

Moloney is no Judd, I'm not stating that he is, but I honestly believe if he can get that support off the ball, especially when he is heavily tagged, that he will still be our number 1 midfielder for the next few years. Over the next 3 years especially, I think he will be more than the support player. I think he will be joined by Grimes and Trengove as our 2 or 3 gun mids, with support from Jones, McKenzie, maybe Gysberts, Bail, possibly Nicholson (who's a rookie let's not forget).

You obviously have an issue with my view of Moloney. That's fine, as I have an issue with your "I'm a bigger smart arse than you" posts.

[Lutz 76]

I like BH don't think Beamer can ever become "elite".

He can be a bullocking clearance machine, but outside of a stoppage he just doesn't have enough.

What qualities do you think he possesses that would allow him to become elite

You can't be elite with big holes in your game.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I like BH don't think Beamer can ever become "elite".

He can be a bullocking clearance machine, but outside of a stoppage he just doesn't have enough.

What qualities do you think he possesses that would allow him to become elite

You can't be elite with big holes in your game.

I haven't said he can be elite, but I stick by my comments regarding him becomming a star, providing those around him lift. I think Moloney possesses;

* Pace - mostly in the first 20m that star midfielders have.

* Power - can break takcles, especially when Jamar is on top in the ruck.

* Strength - has very good leg strength, means he keeps his feet, and in return, his tackles stick

* Awareness - knows when to kick short or long, rarely puts his teammates under pressure

* Kicking - can hit a target 55m+, or kick a goal off one or tw steps from outside 50m.

* Leadership - was stiff not to remain in the LG in 2012, but won't sit back and let it happen, will do something about it.

He is a confidence player, like so many Melbourne players. Of the above areas, I don't think there are too many "big holes" in his game. Consistency is the obvious one. Still has things to learn, but considering our coach had a lot to do with getting Swan in to the "star" category, and with Beamer's body shape changing slightly and hopefully his endurance increasing, I can see him adding another B&F to his name in 2012, and firmly planting himself in the top 20 of the competition.

Lutz - can I ask for a reply in regards to these "big holes"? Perhaps the mods can shift these posts in to the Moloney thread?

And Ben-Hur - feast away champ, I'm sure you're going to captivate us with your opinion and extensive knowledge.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

* Pace - mostly in the first 20m that star midfielders have. - Nothing special. In fact I worried having at one time, McLean, Beamer and Jones in the guts. Too many too slow.

* Power - can break takcles, especially when Jamar is on top in the ruck. - Not sure how Jamar in the ruck helps him break tackles. But when Jamar is down Beamer goes missing

* Strength - has very good leg strength, means he keeps his feet, and in return, his tackles stick - Strength should be a benefit particularly against young side but needs to be more accountable for his opponent defensively.

* Awareness - knows when to kick short or long, rarely puts his teammates under pressure - Disagree. Moloney is only beginning to develop the nous as what to do with the ball. Too often he would bomb it long. Still needs to define the art against better oppositions. Many of his disposals in those games do not impact.

* Kicking - can hit a target 55m+, or kick a goal off one or tw steps from outside 50m. - Too often kicks too long and does not kick to the top of square. He has only kicked 34 goals in 130 games. There would be few instances of the long goal happening over his whole career.

* Leadership - was stiff not to remain in the LG in 2012, but won't sit back and let it happen, will do something about it. - Irrelevant given Neeld thinks otherwise and has dumped him from the leadership group. Needs to justify his role in the team.

[Hannibal 5,814]

You obviously have an issue with my view of Moloney.

I have no issues with "opinions". Where have I said otherwise ? I said that we view football differently and we'll "agree to differ".

As I'm not keen on sagas and you're becoming a tad melodramatic I'll leave it there.

[Roost It 1,434]

What our midfield really needs is Scully..........ooops, he's gone hasn't he!

[Roost It 1,434]

Trengove, Grimes, Viney are the makings of a great midfield. We need another dose of serious class to take us to a Premiership threat.

[rhaz 342]

I still have high hopes for Gysberts also.

[rjay 24,940]

I haven't said he can be elite, but I stick by my comments regarding him becomming a star, providing those around him lift. I think Moloney possesses;

* Pace - mostly in the first 20m that star midfielders have.

* Power - can break takcles, especially when Jamar is on top in the ruck.

* Strength - has very good leg strength, means he keeps his feet, and in return, his tackles stick

* Awareness - knows when to kick short or long, rarely puts his teammates under pressure

* Kicking - can hit a target 55m+, or kick a goal off one or tw steps from outside 50m.

* Leadership - was stiff not to remain in the LG in 2012, but won't sit back and let it happen, will do something about it.

He is a confidence player, like so many Melbourne players. Of the above areas, I don't think there are too many "big holes" in his game. Consistency is the obvious one. Still has things to learn, but considering our coach had a lot to do with getting Swan in to the "star" category, and with Beamer's body shape changing slightly and hopefully his endurance increasing, I can see him adding another B&F to his name in 2012, and firmly planting himself in the top 20 of the competition.

Lutz - can I ask for a reply in regards to these "big holes"? Perhaps the mods can shift these posts in to the Moloney thread?

And Ben-Hur - feast away champ, I'm sure you're going to captivate us with your opinion and extensive knowledge.

Awareness is where I see him lacking, he is very focussed on the ball which is great but really struggles with the positioning of his teammates and opponents. Because of this he often wastes possessions and doesn't work to clear space or use better positioned teammates (not on his own here by any means).

What I'm interested in is how our on ball brigade functions under the new regime, I truly hope Moloney can become what a lot of posters see in him.

[Lutz 76]

Rhino pretty much said it all, but I agree with rjay - awareness and decision-making are his biggest deficiencies.

And being able to kick the ball a long way is very different to hitting targets at that distance.

I think you'll find he often just bombs long or takes the obvious short option.

Finding an option when they're hard to find, is not one of his tricks (few can, but if we're talking about "stars" or the "elite"...)

[Striker475 696]

Moloney: Good ordinary midfielder

Jones: Everyone forgets he's still only 23 - my tip for a big year

Sylvia: Goodness knows if we'll ever see a consistent run of his best form beyond 3 games

Trengove: The lad has class written all over him and will see more and more

Grimes: Every time we've moved him to the midfield he's been hurt dammit!

Morton: If you don't know my views on Morton, let's just say I think Rhino has warned me either twice or three times for my comments on him.

Gysberts: Needs bulk

Taggert: Too soon to call

Bail: Had made it for me before he got injured, our number 1 tagger and is very, very good.

McKenzie: Tackle machine but needs to improve his kicking to the point where he has confidence in his foot skills - he has games where he'll literally have about 20 handballs and one kick

Bate: We will see, I think he's too slow though

Viney: 2 years on a semi-AFL load will help him but he is still at least a year away

Then there's Magner, Couch, Pickles and Nicho who we will see at some point I am sure but I don't know if they're good enough.

I'd say we need two more, or one absolute top-ender.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Striker475

[Biffen 12,943]

In my original post, I said Judd would struggle "at times" even if he played for Melbourne. It would be those games where he needs help breaking those tags, which in his first season at Carlton, he didn't get, just like what happened with Moloney in 2011, and to some degree Flash in 2010. Now, obviosuly he had his injury issues in that first season with Carlton, but you can't blame every poor game that he played on injury. Those games against quality taggers required more assistance from his teammates to block and help shake a tag, but they struggled to do it. Now that they do it, and obviosuly he has his body right, Judd is playing as good as ever, and his teammates are playing better footy as well (mainly because the likes of Murphy and Gibbs are just that bit older, bit bigger).

Moloney is no Judd, I'm not stating that he is, but I honestly believe if he can get that support off the ball, especially when he is heavily tagged, that he will still be our number 1 midfielder for the next few years. Over the next 3 years especially, I think he will be more than the support player. I think he will be joined by Grimes and Trengove as our 2 or 3 gun mids, with support from Jones, McKenzie, maybe Gysberts, Bail, possibly Nicholson (who's a rookie let's not forget).

You obviously have an issue with my view of Moloney. That's fine, as I have an issue with your "I'm a bigger smart arse than you" posts.

Judd is a terrible kick-believe it .

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

A few problems with this post.

The AFL didn't do anything for us -- we "earned" those pick with our win-loss records.

Each of the first 3 picks might look bad, but they were the best options for mids at the stage of those drafts.

The only player of note in 2003 after those named, would be David Mundy, picked around 30-40 and after Freo had already had 2 picks themselves.

Rioli, Dangerfield & Grimes came after Morton, but not much else, and they aren't really mods (yet, at least).

And if you could have foreseen Scully leaving back on draft day, then I'd appreciate next week's tattslotto numbers while you're at it.

that's 5 shots at the top 5 in a 7-year period, 6 including non-midfield Watts. Here is the other 29 top-5 picks from that period:

Adam Cooney

Andrew Walker

Farren Ray

Brett Deledio

Jarryd Roughead

Ryan Griffen

Richard Tambling

Lance Franklin

Marc Murphy

Dale Thomas

Xavier Ellis

Josh Kennedy

Scott Pendlebury

Bryce Gibbs

Scott Gumbleton

Lachlan Hansen

Matthew Leuenberger

Travis Boak

Matthew Kreuzer

Trent Cotchin

Chris Masten

Jarrad Grant

Nic Naitanui

Stephen Hill

Hamish Hartlett

Michael Hurley

Dustin Martin

Anthony Morabito

Ben Cunnington

wouldnt mind trading the McLean, Morton and Scully picks for 3 from that lot

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

It's not all over yet, none of those is a bust ...

2003 pick 3 Sylvia: he has been improving since he got his body right and could still realise his potential

2003 pick 5 McLean: that's Gysberts now

2007 pick 4 Morton: It's easy to forget he just turned 21 this year

2009 pick 1 Scully: that's 2 unsused compo picks

2009 pick 2 Trengove: Co-captain at 20.

Gysberts... not sold. Can't see him becoming an elite

Morton a toal bust bust for mine

The 2 picks could turn out to be a Jones and a Frawley, but in reality this is pretty unlikely

[Harrisonrules 273]

In the short time I've been on this forum the subject of our midfield and it being the weak link comes up consistently.

I'm not so sure it is the problem that others think, I think the problem at least in part has been due to the way we set up. It may also have to do with some of our senior players working as individuals and not in a team structure, is it the coaching or the player? This year will answer that question.

Let me take the Hawthorn games and mids as an example, their 2 main guys that control the middle are Mitchell and Sewell, they have a bunch of other guys moving through including a couple of handy players in Hodge and Rioli. Neither MItchell or Sewell are overly quick, Mitchell is an accurate kick over short distance but doesn't have a lot of depth, both are strong but I wouldn't think they are any stronger than Moloney, Silvia or Jones. Better footballers, sure seem to be, they work hard for position, to block, clear space and give off to more gifted team mates like Hodge and Birchell with their kicking, Rioli and Smith with their run whilst our guys are trying for the individual glory, ignoring team mates in better position. If lucky they get a bomb forward but more often than not get tackled and loose posession against the Hawthorns of this world. Our younger players just get smashed.

I find it so annoying to hear special comments guys on radio and TV referring to Hawthorns larger bodies when we have been consistently beaten out of the centre whilst Moloney and co were in there, that's just lazy thinking. To me it seemed like personnel (and their ability) along with the way we set up, our coaching. This year we will find out the percentages as I don't believe under Neeld our mids will be allowed to get away with what they have.

I get really frustrated with Moloney, I think he plays as an individual and although many here say he "bleeds red and blue" he often burns his team mates on the ground. Now the quesion is, was it his fault, was he playing under instructions and or were the coaches not up to it. I guess the board say's no on the latter one. It's a big year for him and he will have to change to be assured of a game. From what I've seen at training a lot of work is being done in close to block for and use team mates, if Moloney can come to the party here he will be a huge asset with his strength, he really will become an onfield leader and not just a rah rah man. Is he up to it? that's one of the questions of the year for me.

Col Silvia should be used rarely if ever at centre bounces (and never ever with Moloney) as he doesn't have the reaction time or peripheral vision to get involved in tight, he also plays as an individual but he can be a real weapan if we can use his attributes, strong overhead, burst through, goal kicker.

We have quite a few of our younger players coming into their 3 - 5 years of experience this year who will play though the middle and I'm thinking a few of these will really step up, so I guess with new coaches, some added strengh through recruiting and development of the younger players and a change of strategy we will have a better idea of where we sit as the year progresses.

These are all secondary. When it comes to ball sports, its all in the mind. A fraction of a second can turn a slower person into someone who is always in the right spot. The shorter person reads the flight of the ball quicker than the taller and positions himself more quickly. The qicker the mind the better the anticipation. The more quickly they see the options.. You can put on bulk, you can practice longer than others,and yes it helps you reach you optimum but if you don't have the elite mind you won't climb to the top. Ask the elite batsman or the elite slips fieldsman. Its the mind that turns the good footballer into the great football. Think about it.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Harrisonrules

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Judd is a terrible kick-believe it .

dead right. every time he shanks one the commentators say 'that was un-judd-like'.. I wonder if he does it for one third of his possesions does it become 'judd-like' ?

[Hannibal 5,814]

Gysberts... not sold. Can't see him becoming an elite

Reputations on line. You and me ............/