The Tom Scully Saga

[Guest Artie Bucco]

I would just like to see melbourne show a few balls. Come and say 'we want the top 3 picks of the draft if we lose Scully'.

I hate feeling like no-one at the club provides the fans with a voice.

Well that feeling is your own problem to deal with.

You want to know why no one at MFC comes out and says that?

Because what fans like you think they want, and what they really want, are two different things.

You really want Scully to stay, but in the event that he doesn't, for us to get "fair" compensation.

Saying what you think you want the club to say, will not help in that regard - there is a way to go about these things that is clearly beyond you.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

correct me if im wrong... but even if we do get a high draft pick for scully, doesnt that mean that it will be compensation in a year where we are committed to taking Jack Viney... so it doesn't really matter where we get the pick, we have to use our highest pick to get him anyway?

this is obviously in a situation where scully goes, which i still blindly am hoping he still doesn't

You're wrong.

It wouldn't take into account the compensation pick.

And we are not bound to use our highest pick on Viney - we are bound to use our highest pick that falls after the highest pick bidder for him by another club.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Looks to me like a no-win situation.....

He goes and we get insufficient compensation and a player development delay (don't kid yourselves we'll get a good deal)

He stays and gets paid way way over the odds for a 19 yo with the attendant problems this causes

...and I still don't understand why his type of player is what GWS really need to spend big money on

That's assuming the kid is as mercenary as the media and the rumours are portraying.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for him to have decided to put off negotiations with the club til the end of the season, but not try to bleed every last dollar out of us.

I reckon he's just backing himself to perform well, and then will take a fair contract that corresponds with the form he has shown.

It's exactly what I'd do.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Having always believed he would stay I now believe he is gone. Had a long conversation this morning with a friend with several Melbourne and non Melbourne contacts, All roads lead to GWS then back to Victoria as was suggested last night. He doesn't see himself as a Melbourne player, wants out, will take the money and will then return to play for a power club. We'll take the compensation, spread our player payments around the club, recruit Viney and another top draftee.

So now he is a three club player? In a convoluted and messy way, too.

I wonder if these people realise there is a difference between what ol' closed mouth Tom says and the little theories they work out in their heads to help them explain what they think it going on.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Well that feeling is your own problem to deal with.

You want to know why no one at MFC comes out and says that?

Because what fans like you think they want, and what they really want, are two different things.

You really want Scully to stay, but in the event that he doesn't, for us to get "fair" compensation.

Saying what you think you want the club to say, will not help in that regard - there is a way to go about these things that is clearly beyond you.

That is very condescending Artie. Clearly beyond him? Get off your high horse. Fans are emotionally investing in Tom Scully, buying number 31 guernseys for their kids, and quite rightly want to know what is going on.

Jim and Schwabby are good communicators. Time to do some communicating!

[daisycutter 28,709]

That's assuming the kid is as mercenary as the media and the rumours are portraying.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for him to have decided to put off negotiations with the club til the end of the season, but not try to bleed every last dollar out of us.

I reckon he's just backing himself to perform well, and then will take a fair contract that corresponds with the form he has shown.

It's exactly what I'd do.

This is the bit that doesn't compute

He will surely look at 'market' value which will be inflated by GWS (assuming they really are interested in him) then if he wants to stay will accept something between 'fair' and 'market' value No doubt this would still be way over 'fair' value.

You believing he would accept fair value based on form is just fantasy

[sue 8,515]

I don't know if it's true I'm just relaying what 2 seperate people have told me in the last 24 hours. It could just be the latest rumour in the Scully saga. Make of it what you will. It certainly ain't gospel because we still have what Tom said. Sadly for me I've come to believe he's gone.

So, we have lots of inside sources at Melbourne leaking the information that he is gone. If this was true and writ in blood and unchangeable, surely they'd have him playing at Casey. What would there be to lose - a non-finals win or two at most?

Doesn't the fact that he is not at Casey imply either the sources are wrong, playing games, or there is hope he will stay within the higher levels of the club who presumably are more in the know than anyone? Please explain.

[daisycutter 28,709]

So, we have lots of inside sources at Melbourne leaking the information that he is gone. If this was true and writ in blood and unchangeable, surely they'd have him playing at Casey. What would there be to lose - a non-finals win or two at most?

Doesn't the fact that he is not at Casey imply either the sources are wrong, playing games, or there is hope he will stay within the higher levels of the club who presumably are more in the know than anyone? Please explain.

I think if a club played someone who was obviously capable, in form and fit to play, in the magoos for the suggested reasons, they could be in breach of contract or something under restriction of trade practices. Players also have bonuses based on senior games, B&F votes etc. which would be impacted

Anyway (most) AFL clubs would be unlikely to do this and see it as unethical, IMO

[Akum 2,660]

As I said make of it what you will. It's a reliable source as was this morning's. It strikes me as interesting that 2 different people both with contacts at melbourne told me the same story. Is it true? I think so but in the end only a handful of people know what is really going on.

Roost It, I don't expect you to say whether your friends' "contacts at Melbourne" are contacts in the "inner circle" (for want of a better expression) or on the "fringes' of the club, or in-between. But my problem with this "contact with the club" sort of thing is that if anybody significant in the "inner circle" had reliable information of this importance that we were losing Scully, I'd expect some sort of action to be taken on it, at least internally. Not a press release, we mightn't see anything obvious, but if it was clear to the "inner circle" that Scully's interests and the club's interests had clearly diverged, then the club (and for that matter the team) could not just carry on as before. There would have to be a shift of some sort in the club's attitude & behaviour towards Scully.

If your friends' contacts are not "inner circle", then I'd expect that once you get a certain distance into the fringes of the club there's probably just as much gossip and rumour as there is on Demonland. It's human nature. So if the club continues to put out the same consistent message about Scully as it has all season and before, then he's not gone yet.

[cooko 124]

This is another "friend of a friend" story.. but apparently Scully absolutely loves Stynes.. apparently he is like his hero these days. They said he has a poster of him in his room and also has all of these letters from Jimmy around his room that Jimmy has written for him. The fact that Jimmy sat down with him and asked him face to face and he denied that he has been approached is pretty full on. Scully has a reputation as being loyal, so that is pretty messed up if he still leaves!

on a side note they also said that on Scully's calendar he has every meal planned out for the entire month.. he is a complete health freak as we already know.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,386]

I think if a club played someone who was obviously capable, in form and fit to play, in the magoos for the suggested reasons, they could be in breach of contract or something under restriction of trade practices. Players also have bonuses based on senior games, B&F votes etc. which would be impacted

Anyway (most) AFL clubs would be unlikely to do this and see it as unethical, IMO

Does not a Dockers side decimated by injury not playing a previous Rising Star award winner who had 34 touches in the WAFL last week say something?

[Guest Thomo]

I think if a club played someone who was obviously capable, in form and fit to play, in the magoos for the suggested reasons, they could be in breach of contract or something under restriction of trade practices. Players also have bonuses based on senior games, B&F votes etc. which would be impacted

Anyway (most) AFL clubs would be unlikely to do this and see it as unethical, IMO

It would be no different from clubs playing kids instead of older players who are more capable, but not part of the future plans.

As for those on here saying don't play him until he signs, I guess Casey will look pretty good next week with Scully, Sylvia, Morton, Martin, Gawn and Green running around. And we really should be signing Maric, Newton and Wonna right now.

[daisycutter 28,709]

It would be no different from clubs playing kids instead of older players who are more capable, but not part of the future plans.

As for those on here saying don't play him until he signs, I guess Casey will look pretty good next week with Scully, Sylvia, Morton, Martin, Gawn and Green running around. And we really should be signing Maric, Newton and Wonna right now.

Those situations are probably more arguable ans less obvious. There are also contract considerations that may differ and certain players could be paid for what they miss etc. Without more details its hard to say if it is the same. With Scully we would be talking of more blatant actions. Sculley is also on the more basic draftees contract with big bonuses (comparatively) for games played. Playing all games is worth close to $100K for him.

Anyway I don't think MFC would do this and if they did they would compensate him accordingly to avoid any legal issues.

And BTW NRL clubs have this issue every year, its all out in the open and they play the players.

[Guest Guy Rigoni]

If what Mike Sheahan said today is true and that Melbourne are offering him 2.8 mil over 4 years then i hope he goes, we can't have a 20 year old holding the club to ransom. Trenners will stil be on 100-150k next year and in no way does scully deserve 6 or 7 times what he is earning.

It's not suprising if Scully doesn't feel like a Melbourne player, everyone knows that Melboourne is a party club, from Beamer and Flash down to Watts, they all love getting on the drink, not that there is anything wrong with it. And compound it with the growing resentment towards him from the players over Scully's selfishness.

How would someone like Ricky Petterd feel, absolutely loves the club, got a huge offer from the Gold Coast and re-signed with the Dees half way through last season for alot less pay and yet struggles to get a game because he is played out of position and the coach can't implement a forward structure. Yet Scully who, besides the Bulldogs game last year, has yet to prove himself to the team and for selfish reasons refuses to commit to the Demons despite the huge amount of pressure its putting on himself and the team, is a walk up start every week.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

If what Mike Sheahan said today is true and that Melbourne are offering him 2.8 mil over 4 years then i hope he goes, we can't have a 20 year old holding the club to ransom. Trenners will stil be on 100-150k next year and in no way does scully deserve 6 or 7 times what he is earning.

It's not suprising if Scully doesn't feel like a Melbourne player, everyone knows that Melboourne is a party club, from Beamer and Flash down to Watts, they all love getting on the drink, not that there is anything wrong with it. And compound it with the growing resentment towards him from the players over Scully's selfishness.

How would someone like Ricky Petterd feel, absolutely loves the club, got a huge offer from the Gold Coast and re-signed with the Dees half way through last season for alot less pay and yet struggles to get a game because he is played out of position and the coach can't implement a forward structure. Yet Scully who, besides the Bulldogs game last year, has yet to prove himself to the team and for selfish reasons refuses to commit to the Demons despite the huge amount of pressure its putting on himself and the team, is a walk up start every week.

Yep. This post demonstrates that this thread has become ridiculous and that many have lost their minds because they can't stand not knowing for certain what is happening.

The club will be working diligently on this issue in the background on both sides of the stay or go equation. If these "reliable sources are so good", then name them! Or perhaps they aren't so reliable and are nothing more than normal people like you and me who have absolutely NFI about the situation, but need to act as if they know something for their own self importance.

Until people name these sources so that then their inside information can be put to the test, I suggest the majority round here stop paying them any attention and continuing along the wild and inaccurate speculation ride.

[rpfc 27,662]

If what Mike Sheahan said today is true and that Melbourne are offering him 2.8 mil over 4 years then i hope he goes, we can't have a 20 year old holding the club to ransom. Trenners will stil be on 100-150k next year and in no way does scully deserve 6 or 7 times what he is earning.

It's not suprising if Scully doesn't feel like a Melbourne player, everyone knows that Melboourne is a party club, from Beamer and Flash down to Watts, they all love getting on the drink, not that there is anything wrong with it. And compound it with the growing resentment towards him from the players over Scully's selfishness.

How would someone like Ricky Petterd feel, absolutely loves the club, got a huge offer from the Gold Coast and re-signed with the Dees half way through last season for alot less pay and yet struggles to get a game because he is played out of position and the coach can't implement a forward structure. Yet Scully who, besides the Bulldogs game last year, has yet to prove himself to the team and for selfish reasons refuses to commit to the Demons despite the huge amount of pressure its putting on himself and the team, is a walk up start every week.

It's ironic that your namesake helped Tom move into a place about 6 months ago in the SE suburbs...

This is not a great post...

[dees189227 11,174]

On mmm footy today Danny Frawley said something along the lines of the club saying to Scully in a few weeks have you made a decision and if he says no then tell him he will be playing at Casey because we need to develop a player or play another youngster who will definitely be at the club next year. Which is a good point if we arent playing finals then play a person that wants to be there.

They were also talking about his team mates and how they would have to be talking about it to each other wondering if he is staying or going.

Also who knows what other clubs are going after him. Apparently essendon have a stack of money to recruit.

If he goes then go but I just hope that he didnt look Jimmy in the face and say I havent signed or made up my mind when he already had.

Every week though until the end of the season he is going to be the most talked about player. This wont go away and the more it goes on the more I reckon he will go. I really hope not though.

Edited June 18, 2011 by dees189227

[45HG 1,539]

The worst part about this thread is that it isn't even specilating about Scully anymore, it's now speculating about other people's speculations (in some cases, 3rd hand other people's speculations).

[Bang Bang Bang 5,574]

The main thing I took from Sheehan's article is that Velocity Sports have admitted to preliminary talks re. a new contract. Sure, it's suggested it was very much informal and figures weren't discussed, but if (as rumoured) Scully has already packed his bags, then why would these talks be taking place?

I also think that if Sheehan's right, and we're offering him 2.7m over 4 years, then I think Scully would be a madman to turn that down. Which is good and bad. I think it's worth paying him that kind of coin to keep him at the club, but as the article says, it doesn't bode well for someone like Trengove who is just as good as Scully but will be playing for 1/6th of the coin in 2012 and will be looking to negotiate a new deal this time next year.

[MadAsHell 4,089]

The main thing I took from Sheehan's article is that Velocity Sports have admitted to preliminary talks re. a new contract. Sure, it's suggested it was very much informal and figures weren't discussed, but if (as rumoured) Scully has already packed his bags, then why would these talks be taking place?

I also think that if Sheehan's right, and we're offering him 2.7m over 4 years, then I think Scully would be a madman to turn that down. Which is good and bad. I think it's worth paying him that kind of coin to keep him at the club, but as the article says, it doesn't bode well for someone like Trengove who is just as good as Scully but will be playing for 1/6th of the coin in 2012 and will be looking to negotiate a new deal this time next year.

I don't have any issue if the club offers Scully the 2.7 or 2.8 million over 4 years, as long as Scully never expects a wage increase in future contracts with the club unless the salary cap is significantly increased.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

The main thing I took from Sheehan's article is that Velocity Sports have admitted to preliminary talks re. a new contract. Sure, it's suggested it was very much informal and figures weren't discussed, but if (as rumoured) Scully has already packed his bags, then why would these talks be taking place?

I also think that if Sheehan's right, and we're offering him 2.7m over 4 years, then I think Scully would be a madman to turn that down. Which is good and bad. I think it's worth paying him that kind of coin to keep him at the club, but as the article says, it doesn't bode well for someone like Trengove who is just as good as Scully but will be playing for 1/6th of the coin in 2012 and will be looking to negotiate a new deal this time next year.

Your assuming we didnt offer him a juicy pay rise during his third year.... doubt his management would have extended it for 150K a year

[Guest Artie Bucco]

This is the bit that doesn't compute

He will surely look at 'market' value which will be inflated by GWS (assuming they really are interested in him) then if he wants to stay will accept something between 'fair' and 'market' value No doubt this would still be way over 'fair' value.

You believing he would accept fair value based on form is just fantasy

Depends on you perception of what 'fair' is. It's subjective.

Your judgment of what is 'fair' may be pure fantasy.

My judgment of 'fair' is certainly below market value, because market value is whatever GWS are willing to pay, but hardly pure fantasy.

The point I was making, is that it shouldn't be taken for granted that he is trying to bleed every last dollar out of the club.

[daisycutter 28,709]

Depends on you perception of what 'fair' is. It's subjective.

Your judgment of what is 'fair' may be pure fantasy.

My judgment of 'fair' is certainly below market value, because market value is whatever GWS are willing to pay, but hardly pure fantasy.

The point I was making, is that it shouldn't be taken for granted that he is trying to bleed every last dollar out of the club.

Rubbish reply

You originally said he would accept fair based on form. Nothing else, for example what GWS offer.

In other words take GWS out of the equation and he would accept an offer based on his current form only

As I said pure fantasy

[Watt and Howe? 16]

Depends on you perception of what 'fair' is. It's subjective.

Your judgment of what is 'fair' may be pure fantasy.

My judgment of 'fair' is certainly below market value, because market value is whatever GWS are willing to pay, but hardly pure fantasy.

The point I was making, is that it shouldn't be taken for granted that he is trying to bleed every last dollar out of the club.

+1

[jumbo returns 6,598]

Figures are bandied about without any substance - like rumours I suppose.....

If Trengove signed for 100k per year, then he needs to sack his management and get Aker to look after him.

Edited June 18, 2011 by jumbo returns