The Tom Scully Saga

[hardtack 10,627]

Yes, you may well be right, but what Demitriou said was nothing new or particularly revelatory and nothing that hadn't been discussed in the press and on these forums before in relation to Scully.

[Born to Run 204]

Yes, you may well be right, but what Demitriou said was nothing new or particularly revelatory and nothing that hadn't been discussed in the press and on these forums before in relation to Scully.

No doubt about that!

But I guess it wouldn't be a demons forum if recurring themes were not a constant (i.e. why our players form is up and down every week, why we are not significantly better than we are after seasons of rebuilding, why we continue to disappoint, why we drop games that we think we will win, why why why....)

I also think that this Scully issue cuts closer to the bone than most issues. Its pretty hard to expect that a simple post here and there early in the season can deal with it. People are just trying to make sense of the whole thing when it is just so "un-sensible".

[Face Your Demons 175]

what Demitriou said was a load of rubbish, Jeff wanted to come home. If we are allowed to offer the same money as GWS and Scully still goes then fine, but we are not allowed and that where it is wrong.

[Range Rover 1,935]

The thing that really upsets me about Vlad is the obvious which he chooses to conveniently overlook every time this discussion comes up.

If we lost TS to Richmond or Collingwood at the end of the year through them offering him something he wants more - be it money or opportunity or the perception that their club is better then I would be upset BUT we are on a level playing field as far as cap goes with these clubs. In the end we havent worked hard enough to keep him. As to the Jeff White situation ( which was a "go home" story) - Freo and MFC were competing with the same total amount of money in their pocket to spend.

With GWS and GC17 they are turning up to an auction to buy a house with AFL approval allowing them to spend an inordinate amount than any of the other clubs can spend. In pure dollar terms the AFL has given the new clubs a huge competitive advantage.

And to those who suggested before that GC17 was a lifestyle choice - whilst I agree it has more appeal than GWS and the beaches do sound nice is anyone truly suggesting that if all the players they contracted were offered the same money by their former clubs they would have still gone to GC17 because of the lifestyle ?? spare me.

I understand and share your pain re Vlad's disregard for us but playing devil's advocate for a moment, what choice has he got? Concessions for GWS were always going to inflict some collateral damage and unfortunately we find ourselves standing on the landmine at exactly the wrong time.

GWS, GC17 and national expansion are Vlad's legacy and if making them work means a few thousand Melbourne supporters' noses are put out of joint, so be it as far as he is concerned.

Our challenge is to defuse those landmines or at least minimize the injuries they cause. I actually hope Tom and his family go up there and take a drive around, get a "feel" for Western Sydney, if they haven't already done so. Perhaps the silent sadness of the crappy stadium where he would play out his days might convince him to stick with the Dees.

[Face Your Demons 175]

What would happen if every player chosen by Gold Coast moved to GWS after two years. I'm sure Demitriou would be happy with that.

[QueenC 74]

What would happen if every player chosen by Gold Coast moved to GWS after two years. I'm sure Demitriou would be happy with that.

And this makes his opinion condescending, bias and annoying but ultimately irrelevant.....

[nutbean 8,838]

I understand and share your pain re Vlad's disregard for us but playing devil's advocate for a moment, what choice has he got? Concessions for GWS were always going to inflict some collateral damage and unfortunately we find ourselves standing on the landmine at exactly the wrong time.

GWS, GC17 and national expansion are Vlad's legacy and if making them work means a few thousand Melbourne supporters' noses are put out of joint, so be it as far as he is concerned.

Our challenge is to defuse those landmines or at least minimize the injuries they cause. I actually hope Tom and his family go up there and take a drive around, get a "feel" for Western Sydney, if they haven't already done so. Perhaps the silent sadness of the crappy stadium where he would play out his days might convince him to stick with the Dees.

The clubs formulating the concessions got it sooooo wrong. I can only think that clubs knowing how many early draft picks the new clubs would get, thought they would go after more experienced and mature players.

I did offer the solution printed on the AFL website -

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/108528/default.aspx

Vlad was so concerned about evenness and fair play on free agency but has choosen to completely ignore it when it comes to what is fair in regard to who is available and uncontacted for GWS/GC17 to target.

I screamed it then and i will scream it now - GC17 and GWS should have been limited to the access to uncontracted players by a length of service clause.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

I can confirm that Rich has had an offer from GWS but has not yet made his mind up and that neither Morton or Bate have had offers from GWS. That rumour is BS. As far as Scully goes, my contact has no more idea than the rest of us. The MFC is very confident of keeping him but my contact considers the rumour to be too strong not to have some truth. Meaning Scully is most likely gone.

This is not rumour and comes from someone who is involved.

[nutbean 8,838]

I actually hope Tom and his family go up there and take a drive around, get a "feel" for Western Sydney, if they haven't already done so.

I was at origin 2 last night (on my bucket list !) - stayed at Rosehill - and GWS heartland is a futher 15 km west - uggghhhhhh.

Good luck with that ! (incidently - driving infers a vehicle actually moving - I spent 48 hours in Sydney with 98% of it spent at a standstill in traffic)

[H_T 3,049]

The clubs formulating the concessions got it sooooo wrong. I can only think that clubs knowing how many early draft picks the new clubs would get, thought they would go after more experienced and mature players.

I did offer the solution printed on the AFL website -

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/108528/default.aspx

Vlad was so concerned about evenness and fair play on free agency but has choosen to completely ignore it when it comes to what is fair in regard to who is available and uncontacted for GWS/GC17 to target.

I screamed it then and i will scream it now - GC17 and GWS should have been limited to the access to uncontracted players by a length of service clause.

Greg March's spoke of his fury at lack of protection back in March 2010

From the article: -

"We were all led to believe that the new clubs could take uncontracted stars, but we weren't aware their targets would be first- and second-year stars. If you suddenly allow that, then it defeats the whole purpose of the system. I'm not just talking about Dustin Martin. I haven't spoken to Melbourne or West Coast, but I would feel the same way about Jack Trengove, Tom Scully or Jack Watts or Nic Naitanui. As a football person, I don't think it's right.''

Nutbean, Cam Schwab was one of the club representatives who ticked off the concessions for GWS, yet he wasn't so happy about the Dees being drawn into the argument by March:

Read this link from last year

''Gary March does not speak on behalf of our club,'' Schwab said. ''We understand what the rules are and Tim Harrington is working hard to make sure we keep all of our players and we are comfortable with that so I don't need Gary March speaking on behalf of the Melbourne Football Club.

''It's his concept, he can take it forward. We know what the rules are and will work within the rules.''

It also states CEO's from Carlton and Essendon supported Richmond's stance on protecting the recent draftees from GWS...

now we find oursleves in this situation.

[nutbean 8,838]

I can confirm that Rich has had an offer from GWS but has not yet made his mind up and that neither Morton or Bate have had offers from GWS. That rumour is BS. As far as Scully goes, my contact has no more idea than the rest of us. The MFC is very confident of keeping him but my contact considers the rumour to be too strong not to have some truth. Meaning Scully is most likely gone.

This is not rumour and comes from someone who is involved.

ummm...yes..wait...no...what ?

Let me clear that up for those as confused as I was. The contact has no idea if the rumour is true, but the MFC are confident of the rumour not being true but rumour is strong and that is not a rumour. Clear ?

[H_T 3,049]

I can confirm that Rich has had an offer from GWS but has not yet made his mind up and that neither Morton or Bate have had offers from GWS. That rumour is BS. As far as Scully goes, my contact has no more idea than the rest of us. The MFC is very confident of keeping him but my contact considers the rumour to be too strong not to have some truth. Meaning Scully is most likely gone.

This is not rumour and comes from someone who is involved.

Paul Connors confirmed the Rich interest with John Ralph last week....

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

Paul Connors confirmed the Rich interest with John Ralph last week....

Very warm.

[nutbean 8,838]

Greg March's spoke of his fury at lack of protection back in March 2010

From the article: -

Nutbean, Cam Schwab was one of the club representatives who ticked off the concessions for GWS, yet he wasn't so happy about the Dees being drawn into the argument by March:

Read this link from last year

It also states CEO's from Carlton and Essendon supported Richmond's stance on protecting the recent draftees from GWS...

now we find oursleves in this situation.

I read all that and thought at the time that Cam Schwab got it wrong - I understand any CEO not wanting another CEO talking for his club but the essence of March's argument was and is 100% correct.

From a Tiger perspective - I believe that they had to pay through the nose to keep Martin.

What I didnt mention in my article - when a player reaches 23-24 (in most cases) you know what you are getting - so do i have a problem with a 24 year old being in the top 3 best paid players at a club - not as much as i do with an unproven 21 year old. It throws the whole system out of whack.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Spot on Rogue. Its a stinker. And MFC are on the wrong side of it. Who represented MFC in those discussions? Schwab? Clearly a young list like ours would have been fertile picking for GC/GWS.

not to mention we don't have any brown paper bags to give us a chance of not getting shafted

[Rogue 585]

we weren't aware their targets would be first- and second-year stars

I lol'd. Pathetic.

It's not 'we weren't aware...', it's 'we didn't consider the ramifications'.

[nutbean 8,838]

Spot on Rogue. Its a stinker. And MFC are on the wrong side of it. Who represented MFC in those discussions? Schwab? Clearly a young list like ours would have been fertile picking for GC/GWS.

I think as Gary March said - no one expected the targeting of first and second year players. A semi reasonable assumption considering the pick of the 17 year old and all the draft concessions given.

[Freak 100]

I think it would be good if the melbourne supporters were informed by the club as to what they were actually doing/saying to the afl about this issue, or are they just sitting back and copping it on the chin. I feel like we have no back bone

[Rogue 585]

I think as Gary March said - no one expected the targeting of first and second year players. A semi reasonable assumption considering the pick of the 17 year old and all the draft concessions given.

First, I think it's pretty pathetic to not even consider the possibility. They never considered 'what if..?'.

Second, Geelong complained about the compensation - and it was changed, wasn't it? - because the compensation was going to be inadequate. Ablett wasn't a first or second-year player.

Did the CEOs think GC and GWS were only going to consider mid-age battlers and pension-seekers?

[H_T 3,049]

Schwab was on the committee that determined the rules.

Surely it wasnt unanimous though? I doubt we'll ever know.

Gubby Allen was also on that committee as Brisbane's representative - reckon he already had an inkling he'd be going to GWS?

I wouldn't trust that bloke as far as I could throw him.

Gubby Allen was on that committee as Brisbane's representative ?

Why is my blood boiling ?

[rpfc 28,779]

I can confirm that Rich has had an offer from GWS but has not yet made his mind up and that neither Morton or Bate have had offers from GWS. That rumour is BS. As far as Scully goes, my contact has no more idea than the rest of us. The MFC is very confident of keeping him but my contact considers the rumour to be too strong not to have some truth. Meaning Scully is most likely gone.

This is not rumour and comes from someone who is involved.

lol

So the guy you know, who is in the know, knows no more about Scully than the rumours we know.

But he would know rumours because he is in the know?

And I've gone cross eyed...

[H_T 3,049]

First, I think it's pretty pathetic to not even consider the possibility. They never considered 'what if..?'.

Second, Geelong complained about the compensation - and it was changed, wasn't it? - because the compensation was going to be inadequate. Ablett wasn't a first or second-year player.

Did the CEOs think GC and GWS were only going to consider mid-age battlers and pension-seekers?

Surely the alarm bells must have been ringing as far back as when they (committee reps - club reps) sat at the table to discuss the concessions and the topic of first/second year players came up ?

I wonder what went through CS's mind when GWS announced Gubby Allen was heading up recruiting. Perhaps it was reminiscing of who was leading the charge of the basis of this type of concession?

[nutbean 8,838]

lol

So the guy you know, who is in the know, knows no more about Scully than the rumours we know.

But he would know rumours because he is in the know?

And I've gone cross eyed...

I know ! I know !

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Surely the alarm bells must have been ringing as far back as when they (committee reps - club reps) sat at the table to discuss the concessions and the topic of first/second year players came up ?

I wonder what went through CS's mind when GWS announced Gubby Allen was heading up recruiting. Perhaps it was reminiscing of who was leading the charge of the basis of this type of concession?

I think Gubby would also have been leading the "small extra concession" of allowing GC & GWS to pre-select players that have previously nominated for the draft.

The ability to then on-trade them, as GC did with Krakouer, would have been largely ignored.

Same with the 4 x 17 year old picks that must be on-traded - that was sold on the concept of it being used to get more mature players as it would be harder the attract them.

I'm willing to bet that GWS secure a handful of future compensation draft picks in these trades, rather than just a host of old players.

[H_T 3,049]

I'm willing to bet that GWS secure a handful of future compensation draft picks in these trades, rather than just a host of old players.

Given that is what GC and Scott Clayton have done (2 or 3 I think), I wouldn't be surprised.