How do we beat the forward press?

[Tatu 416]

How is the forward press beaten?

[RalphiusMaximus 6,024]

Clean kicking to targets seems to do the job. Having a good target outside the zone to use as a long option, fast movement of the ball. All of these are helpful. Can you pick which ones we don't do?

[beelzebub 23,313]

Clean kicking to targets seems to do the job. Having a good target outside the zone to use as a long option, fast movement of the ball. All of these are helpful. Can you pick which ones we don't do?

Yep...remarkably simple isnt it.. You kick pver the press. Who's da think.. In a game called footy the answet is to kick the football. Revolutionary stuff

Of course there are several caveats and RM alludes to them.

It can only be done with some modicum of skills. The ball must be delivered to predetermined positions. Players must know and be dedicated to the notion that the ball will drop in teh drop zone and they MUST be there to mark or contest it. No IFS..no BUTS !!

probably beyond us presently

(especially when we go into games with a defeatest stategy )

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

How about....

We add some big marking forwards into the mix? Like real ones i mean that can hold down key positions week after week and perform (ie., not Juice/Petterd lol), take big pack marks (any contested marks will do at this point!) AND kick more goals more often compared to the last 3 years and 9 rounds! The ball goes straight back to The Big Russian & Beamer partnership straight after this...avoiding the press!

~ Presto! Press problem eliminated + more goals = potentially more wins = developing a winning culture = more memberships/bigger crowds/more sponsors/higher sponsor $/more broadcast time/ = more $ for the FD/facilities/Coaching/Training staff & trade options and maybe, just maybe....a crack at the big one in 3 - 5 years!

If only we had those forwards .....and if only it were that simple.

Time to think "trade" peeps!!!

Edited May 29, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[Guest Thomo]

Start by moving the ball on quickly from a kickout. Why Frawley on Friday night slowly walked back with the ball with his back to the play when taking a kickout makes no sense. Melbourne allows the opposition to set up before resuming play. The rest of the Melbourne players also slowly move to position.

Also, practising against a forward press in preseason might have helped.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

"Forward Press" is just another flavour of the month term. Much of it is just teams flooding their defence and opposition defenders follow.

Having players (multiple options) forward of the ball (yes, inside the forward fifty) is crucial. No team is going to leave Liam Jurrah on his own un-marked in the forward fifty.

Have the right structure and the rest becomes much easier. More targets, less chance for skill errors.

From the Melbourne website:

At times, Melbourne went ultra-defensive, pushing back Jack Watts as a loose man in defence, but Bailey said the plan had to been to create more drive out of the defensive half.

The plan had not worked because of the team's volume of turnovers, he said.

The thing is, a lot of turnovers are caused by the plan. Even Judd would have had trouble picking put teammates if all he saw up ahead was Eddie Betts surrounded by three Melbourne defenders. Conversely even Morton and Warnock can hit targets if they have Watts, Jurrah, Petterd, Green, Newton, Bennell, Bate or Maric to kick forward to.

Structure is the key and requires no skill from the players. The beauty is it can be rectified week to week, or even quarter to quarter, however since round 1, 2007 it has been a major issue for Melbourne.

But only now are most people starting to pick up on it.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Its not necessarily speed per se...its timing.

So much about this game of ours is taking on elements from others. We got zoning and presses frombasketball.. backwards kick switches from soccer etc. That i suppose we ca ncontinue to steal parts for explanatory reasons.

My thoughts re the press is you not only need to expect it but you need to work it agaisnt them. In Bball you can actually invite the opposition into your trap by feigning 'indecision' This is done to allow your men time to work themselves into their relative positions and prepare for your real offence.

In footy analogies you might need to wait til enough space exposes itself behind the forward press. Its about nerve. You need to hold it and beleive in your team mates. This is really lacking currently. When the prerequisite targets make position and the opposition feels comfortable in their pressure you act decisely and positively . You make the contest ( down the ground ) your. You make it, you own it. Thats the mindset.

You need to be all at it when you actually execute. When youve done this a number of times you gain the high ground in the mental game that is the REAL game. Much of footy is between teh ears. The team that beleives has the chance to actualise their game. The team that doesnt is doomed to react. We react.

Essentially you are waiting til you sense they are surging you , they come into your 'trap' Opportunites will present as very narrow windows. You need to 'go' and go with belief. The appointed players will peel away from what seem their appointed task but is really their take off positions. Ideally the ball falls somewhere near where teh traiing sessions have it doing so.

at this point hopefully the ball is passed the wall and you have weight of numbers and momentum towards your goal.

Its remarkably similar to beating the flood. Probably because both are similalry based in intent.

One thing for sure is the longer you dick around handball from one pressured player to another then its only a matter of time before the turnover Thats the whole point of the press, to cajole you into a mistake.

Edited May 29, 2011 by belzebub59

[Guest Artie Bucco]

"Forward Press" is just another flavour of the month term. Much of it is just teams flooding their defence and opposition defenders follow.

Having players (multiple options) forward of the ball (yes, inside the forward fifty) is crucial. No team is going to leave Liam Jurrah on his own un-marked in the forward fifty.

Have the right structure and the rest becomes much easier. More targets, less chance for skill errors.

From the Melbourne website:

The thing is, a lot of turnovers are caused by the plan. Even Judd would have had trouble picking put teammates if all he saw up ahead was Eddie Betts surrounded by three Melbourne defenders. Conversely even Morton and Warnock can hit targets if they have Watts, Jurrah, Petterd, Green, Newton, Bennell, Bate or Maric to kick forward to.

Structure is the key and requires no skill from the players. The beauty is it can be rectified week to week, or even quarter to quarter, however since round 1, 2007 it has been a major issue for Melbourne.

But only now are most people starting to pick up on it.

Good post CB.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,778]

"Forward Press" is just another flavour of the month term. Much of it is just teams flooding their defence and opposition defenders follow.

Having players (multiple options) forward of the ball (yes, inside the forward fifty) is crucial. No team is going to leave Liam Jurrah on his own un-marked in the forward fifty.

Have the right structure and the rest becomes much easier. More targets, less chance for skill errors.

From the Melbourne website:

The thing is, a lot of turnovers are caused by the plan. Even Judd would have had trouble picking put teammates if all he saw up ahead was Eddie Betts surrounded by three Melbourne defenders. Conversely even Morton and Warnock can hit targets if they have Watts, Jurrah, Petterd, Green, Newton, Bennell, Bate or Maric to kick forward to.

Structure is the key and requires no skill from the players. The beauty is it can be rectified week to week, or even quarter to quarter, however since round 1, 2007 it has been a major issue for Melbourne.

But only now are most people starting to pick up on it.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ You are so right, Clint.

[Toad33 57]

Beating the forward Press....hmmmm.

Here's a novel idea....Sheperd for the ball carrier. (sorry to those young supporters who might not know what that term means...Google it).

The current 'catch phrase' in football, besides 'forward press', is 'SPREAD from a contest'. I personally like to call it the 'kick it to me'.

In my opinion the best way to beat a zone and/or press is to PROTECT THE BALL CAERIER. That's right, just sheperd or block to allow the guy with the ball the time to make and execute a good decision or to make ground up the field and then execute.

From what I have seen in the last few years of football this basic act has almost been lost to the game.

Imagine a 'high traffic' situation on the half back flank; hand balls flying left and right with the ball eventually ending up in the hands of a player in some space. Let's say it's Aaron Davey. ALL his team mates less than 15m from him now RUN TOWARDS HIM and RUN TO BLOCK AN OPPOSITION PLAYER, instead of 'spreading' (running away) to accept a handball when he ends up uner pressure;. The result would allow him both the time and space to locate a target further up the ground or to 'navigate' his way, by foot, further up the ground.

To me it seems a natural thing. I was always taught to run TO the contest NOT away from it. And to protect the ball carrier too.

Employing this tactic may be akin to what they do in Grid Iron but I am certain it would snuff out the zone/press pretty quickly once teams realise that, if we win the ball, having players spread all over the width of the ground (outliers) is just having players standing around doing nothing while their team mates are grossly out numbered.

Essentially ALL the players without the ball, in it's general vicinity once we have won it would be focused on blocking for the ball carrier NOT running away from the contest calling out 'kick it to me', 'kick it to me' 'kick it to me'.

Go Dees

[Kento80 83]

Agree with most above, but surely one of the first things would be for us to actually learn how to execute it ourselves, like every other team in the comp. We are the only ones to buck the trend and look how it is working out for us.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,024]

Beating the forward Press....hmmmm.

Here's a novel idea....Sheperd for the ball carrier. (sorry to those young supporters who might not know what that term means...Google it).

The current 'catch phrase' in football, besides 'forward press', is 'SPREAD from a contest'. I personally like to call it the 'kick it to me'.

In my opinion the best way to beat a zone and/or press is to PROTECT THE BALL CAERIER. That's right, just sheperd or block to allow the guy with the ball the time to make and execute a good decision or to make ground up the field and then execute.

From what I have seen in the last few years of football this basic act has almost been lost to the game.

Imagine a 'high traffic' situation on the half back flank; hand balls flying left and right with the ball eventually ending up in the hands of a player in some space. Let's say it's Aaron Davey. ALL his team mates less than 15m from him now RUN TOWARDS HIM and RUN TO BLOCK AN OPPOSITION PLAYER, instead of 'spreading' (running away) to accept a handball when he ends up uner pressure;. The result would allow him both the time and space to locate a target further up the ground or to 'navigate' his way, by foot, further up the ground.

To me it seems a natural thing. I was always taught to run TO the contest NOT away from it. And to protect the ball carrier too.

Employing this tactic may be akin to what they do in Grid Iron but I am certain it would snuff out the zone/press pretty quickly once teams realise that, if we win the ball, having players spread all over the width of the ground (outliers) is just having players standing around doing nothing while their team mates are grossly out numbered.

Essentially ALL the players without the ball, in it's general vicinity once we have won it would be focused on blocking for the ball carrier NOT running away from the contest calling out 'kick it to me', 'kick it to me' 'kick it to me'.

Go Dees

I like the concept. My concern is the involvement of the umpires. It takes one careless block for a high contact free to be paid. Hit someone head high or in the chest and it's off to the MRP. I just have a horrible vision of umpires paying soft frees in our defensive 50 because one of our players hit someone high with their back while sheperding.

Of course, in all of this is the notion that you work hard off the ball to help out your team mate, and that's something we have seen very little of this year. So many of our players seem to be prima donnas out there and only put an effort in if they are a realistic chance to get the ball in their hands. How many of the run in to create space for a teammate or buy them another two seconds to get a good pass off? It's all part of the soft culture we seem to have developed.

[Tatu 416]

Beating the forward Press....hmmmm.

Here's a novel idea....Sheperd for the ball carrier. (sorry to those young supporters who might not know what that term means...Google it).

The current 'catch phrase' in football, besides 'forward press', is 'SPREAD from a contest'. I personally like to call it the 'kick it to me'.

In my opinion the best way to beat a zone and/or press is to PROTECT THE BALL CAERIER. That's right, just sheperd or block to allow the guy with the ball the time to make and execute a good decision or to make ground up the field and then execute.

From what I have seen in the last few years of football this basic act has almost been lost to the game.

Imagine a 'high traffic' situation on the half back flank; hand balls flying left and right with the ball eventually ending up in the hands of a player in some space. Let's say it's Aaron Davey. ALL his team mates less than 15m from him now RUN TOWARDS HIM and RUN TO BLOCK AN OPPOSITION PLAYER, instead of 'spreading' (running away) to accept a handball when he ends up uner pressure;. The result would allow him both the time and space to locate a target further up the ground or to 'navigate' his way, by foot, further up the ground.

To me it seems a natural thing. I was always taught to run TO the contest NOT away from it. And to protect the ball carrier too.

Employing this tactic may be akin to what they do in Grid Iron but I am certain it would snuff out the zone/press pretty quickly once teams realise that, if we win the ball, having players spread all over the width of the ground (outliers) is just having players standing around doing nothing while their team mates are grossly out numbered.

Essentially ALL the players without the ball, in it's general vicinity once we have won it would be focused on blocking for the ball carrier NOT running away from the contest calling out 'kick it to me', 'kick it to me' 'kick it to me'.

Go Dees

creating a nest of sheparding players, i like it.......the Nest

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Anyone who comes up with a kick azz solution, whatever you do....don't post it on here!!

Edited May 29, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

The press is pretty simple, up to 18 players zoned in strategic locations crowding space with the aim of forcing you into a turnover. They use the advantage that deep in your back 50 you have to kick it forward. Much like defenders have it easier than forwards because they can go 360 degrees with their possession and don't have to put it between 2 sticks.

So take a few defence measures:

1. Put a ruckman/key postion player leading to 60m out on a boundary.

2. Put a few backmen, generally those with speed and good skills deep in your defence (ie. man up the zone in close). These players are to be used in case of a quick turnover as well as to link up with the short targets. For us this should be Davey, Tapscott, Grimes, Garland, Strauss, Trengove etc. Not Warnock or Bartram.

Then you have 2 options:

1. Load up one area of the ground with players and kick long to it. Generally 60m out on a flank but down the guts is another option.

2. Use the advantage you have, in that your players can run anywhere and in any direction. Make players lead hard into the spaces and kick to them. A couple of well placed kicks even if they are diagonal and you are out to your 50m arc. From there a big long kick might get you over the back of the zone.

The other important way to beat the press is to kick out quickly when a quick behind is scored.

Right now, due to our injuries, I'm more concerned about our lack of forward pressure (which stems from ONE simple thing which is work rate - of the forwards to be chase and tackle, and of the mids to pick up the men dropping back) than our ability to beat a good press.

[Chicken Deelicious 0]

The forward press punishes us because we are so poor at hitting targets. One way NOT to beat the press is to kick it to the same place every time (Friday night, anyone?). So, lots of options. Movement. Hitting targets so marks are uncontested, rather than contested. Having options over the back - and options further up the ground.

It used to be the huddle. That was beaten by the zone. The zone became the rolling zone, this became the 'press'. What next?

In the end, when we dont move, dont hit a target or fail provide multiple options, our kick ins and move out of defense will continue to be the joke of the AFL.

....And when we do somehow manage to get out of defense, we have NOTHING up forward!

[jabberwocky 2,301]

The press is pretty simple, up to 18 players zoned in strategic locations crowding space with the aim of forcing you into a turnover. They use the advantage that deep in your back 50 you have to kick it forward. Much like defenders have it easier than forwards because they can go 360 degrees with their possession and don't have to put it between 2 sticks.

So take a few defence measures:

1. Put a ruckman/key postion player leading to 60m out on a boundary.

2. Put a few backmen, generally those with speed and good skills deep in your defence (ie. man up the zone in close). These players are to be used in case of a quick turnover as well as to link up with the short targets. For us this should be Davey, Tapscott, Grimes, Garland, Strauss, Trengove etc. Not Warnock or Bartram.

Then you have 2 options:

1. Load up one area of the ground with players and kick long to it. Generally 60m out on a flank but down the guts is another option.

2. Use the advantage you have, in that your players can run anywhere and in any direction. Make players lead hard into the spaces and kick to them. A couple of well placed kicks even if they are diagonal and you are out to your 50m arc. From there a big long kick might get you over the back of the zone.

The other important way to beat the press is to kick out quickly when a quick behind is scored.

Right now, due to our injuries, I'm more concerned about our lack of forward pressure (which stems from ONE simple thing which is work rate - of the forwards to be chase and tackle, and of the mids to pick up the men dropping back) than our ability to beat a good press.

Convinced me.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

creating a nest of sheparding players, i like it.......the Nest

I like this as one possible counter method as well. However, one possible problem i see arising is the 5 meter rule where you can't block/shepherd outside of this zone or it could be considered as "charging". Team mates would have to be so precise in their judgment with it, in the end i think the umps would have a field day. Worth looking into though.

One method i believe i've seen the Cats using for some time, but i think it's even more fine tuned now under Scott! (i'm sure the better teams are using it and have in the past for quite a while)...

On taking possession, they wait until the very last second before passing (mostly by hand) to their next option. For want of a better word i'll refer to it as "The Release". Being the Cats, that next option isn't always free of an opponent and in more advantageous (get out) space either. They have faith for obvious reasons.

But by waiting till that last split second and keeping their arms free of the tackler, they create the time/space needed (sometimes) for the next player, hopefully freeing them up a little more from their direct opponent/s, allowing them to transition out of defense more effectively, allowing the receiver to then pass by foot for speed/distance/or even scoring if within range.

I realise the Cats aren't alone here and this "release" method isn't new by any means, but the point i'm making is that i feel they've taken it to another level in terms of how well they're timing is (albeit we're talking marginal percentages but ...every percent helps i would think).

Add to this their willingness/ability to take the tackle if they believe it's a better option, rather than just passing off (or coughing it up as the expression goes) to a 50/50 or potentially to the advantage of an opponent. This is where i see a big hole across many of our playing group atm (not all but many). Just not willing or able to take enough tackles and wear them in tight contested play forcing the next stoppage, provided they haven't had serious prior opportunity of course.

There are times when our preferred method/system to beat the press is going to fall down given the myriad of circumstances that arise during a game. Having this "release" method in close contested footy is a necessity and a critical fall back IMO. Including the ability/willingness to "take the tackle" and force that next stoppage when the situation requires (or you're just beaten/overwhelmed in the contest)!

Mature bods, experience, raw talent and execution skills play a big factor obviously.

We could do worse than learn from our feline foes! Certainly are purrrring right now!!

Edited May 29, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[Toad33 57]

I like the concept. My concern is the involvement of the umpires. It takes one careless block for a high contact free to be paid. Hit someone head high or in the chest and it's off to the MRP. I just have a horrible vision of umpires paying soft frees in our defensive 50 because one of our players hit someone high with their back while sheperding.

Of course, in all of this is the notion that you work hard off the ball to help out your team mate, and that's something we have seen very little of this year. So many of our players seem to be prima donnas out there and only put an effort in if they are a realistic chance to get the ball in their hands. How many of the run in to create space for a teammate or buy them another two seconds to get a good pass off? It's all part of the soft culture we seem to have developed.

I know what you mean but it works for us as well as against us. Simply 'being in the way' instead of trying to 'hip and shoulder' someone into next week can make the other player look like the aggressor and the blocker the victim.

My concept is not a huge change on what all teams try to do by drawing an opposition player and then hand passing just before or during a tackle to put a team mate into some space. The problem with that is, as we have all seen, that all clubs are now so well drilled in reading who the next player in the chain will be that the chain of handballs often breaks down resulting in an easy goal the other way from the turn over. This is simply because the players are running away from the ball carrier.

The simple difference with my concept is that IF the ball is dropped, fubbled or the 'outlet' player isn't hit cleanly, his team mates will NOT be running away from him leaving him to regain the ball, dodge the opposition, find a target and execute under pressure; they will be running to him

to protect him allowing him to regain the ball with enough time to survey the situation and pick the best option with time enough to execute.

Of course the other HUGE advantage is that his team mates will also be surveying the situation and can talk him through the situation. ie. when you get it, kick it long down the line, or no targets long, run it or switch it.

The only real risk with such a concept is that same one facing teams that 'huddle' for a kick in against a team that is zoning. That is IF they don't get possession of the ball the opposition only has to kick it across the ground to where they know they have the advantage in player numbers.

Go Dees

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

it is clean disposal, doesnt matter what you do as long as you move it cleanly, which is hard with the pressure, but effectively if you can keep the ball in your hands then you can get through the forward press.

this can be done through

- chipping the ball to leading players, only 15-20m away, carlton did it against our poor press on the weekend, collingwood do this, hawthorn did this this week aswell.

- going around the zone, with switches, as these presses in play usually bloke 1/4 or 1/3 of the field, thus when in posession switching is often the result, which melbourne tried to do, but we went well too wide.

- when switching then splitting the zone up the middle, as the zone will move across the field there will form gaps through the centre of play, it is often a riskier kick but most good kicks can hit them, suckling from hawthorn is my personal favourite, but most teams have these offensive/defensive players. there were several times when melbourne could have done it this week i thought, but we were trying to avoid goals from turnovers and just pushed wider and wider.

- running it, riskiest play, but breaks the press the cleanest, geelong style play, where in, handball and quick movement creates the space.

hard running is also vital to push into the spaces.

[Toad33 57]

it is clean disposal, doesnt matter what you do as long as you move it cleanly, which is hard with the pressure, but effectively if you can keep the ball in your hands then you can get through the forward press.

this can be done through

- chipping the ball to leading players, only 15-20m away, carlton did it against our poor press on the weekend, collingwood do this, hawthorn did this this week aswell.

- going around the zone, with switches, as these presses in play usually bloke 1/4 or 1/3 of the field, thus when in posession switching is often the result, which melbourne tried to do, but we went well too wide.

- when switching then splitting the zone up the middle, as the zone will move across the field there will form gaps through the centre of play, it is often a riskier kick but most good kicks can hit them, suckling from hawthorn is my personal favourite, but most teams have these offensive/defensive players. there were several times when melbourne could have done it this week i thought, but we were trying to avoid goals from turnovers and just pushed wider and wider.

- running it, riskiest play, but breaks the press the cleanest, geelong style play, where in, handball and quick movement creates the space.

hard running is also vital to push into the spaces.

What you have described is exactly what we are trying to do, and what other teams do too. (I call it HIGH POSSESION HIGH TURNOVER FOOTBALL)

My problem with it is that for every disposal (dinky kicks to 15-20m away) there is the potential for A. a poor disposal B. a fumble. That's TWO opportunities to stuff it up for every movement of the ball.

Simply get the ball into the hands of a player in a bit of space and PROTECT THAT PLAYER.

If the opposition 'spread' to set up a zone it will play into our hands as we will have more players around the ball. If they 'rush' the ball carrier and his support it will open up space behind the rushing opposition players for our players further up the ground to lead into.

It's not Rocket Science, just minimal possesion for maximum gain.

Go Dees

[Bhima 0]

Michael Evans - in his interview with Brent Moloney - mentioned that the Dees had been working on getting the ball out of the defensive fifty at training. Due to a number of costly turnovers against the Saints, the Dees were coming up with a strategy to beat the press.

Not sure if anyone noticed, but that strategy seemed a fairly straightforward one, and explains why Melbourne players weren't kicking the ball out quickly. The method was to wait for the ruckman/tall players (Martin, Rivers, Newton etc) to drift towards the boundary line outside the fifty, kick the ball to them and let the tall players knock the ball out of play. This, in theory, forces both teams to man up as it is now a ruck throw in 60-65 metres from goal and the press is 'beaten'. Of course, you really need to get the ball up to the true wing position before you can get a proper forward structure set up, but it is one way of slowing things down and ensuring you're not turning the ball over inside fifty, and have a legitimate chance of winning the clearance from the throw in.

To me, this is actually a good strategy when all else has failed. As is it is near the boundary line and designed to take the opposition out of the contest, and is safer than any kick inside the field of play in which the ball can be turned over to the opposition - as once that happens they have free players everywhere inside 50.

For it to be the Demons answer to the press is concerning - as it so conservative and poses little threat to the opposition, setting a very defensive tone. However, considering how poorly we were kicking the ball on Friday night (somewhere around 50% efficiency in the first quarter), it was certainly the safest option.

As others have noted - one way of beating the press is with skillful kicking to players in set positions. That option would have been death for the Dees in greasy conditions and a back line with a number of blokes who can't be trusted to pinpoint passes under great pressure.

Warnock Macdonald Rivers

Frawley Bennell Jones

Watts was taking some of the kick-ins, which I liked to see as he looked confident - but Frawley was the designated kicker and he went long and wide most of the night.

Once we get some players back with decent kicking skills we might see a more attacking approach.

I did think on Friday night how much the Dees were a shadow of the team that was so entertaining last year. For us to get a coveted friday night game and play such conservative tactics was understanding from a coaching perspective (stay close enough for long enough and you never know). It was, however, from a viewing perspective very disappointing and I hated it all weekend when everyone I knew or heard on the radio kepp saying they turned the game off at half time it was so boring.

Should we play in an entertaining style, go up the guts and give Jurrah a chance one-out and potentially get blown away, or should we play safe, lose by 47 and be so boring that people don't even want to watch the game?

I'm not saying what should have happened, but this Friday I would much prefer to see us attack and suffer the potential consequences (some of which might be positive) that than not attack at all.

Cheers

[Craig Drinker 179]

"Forward Press" is just another flavour of the month term. Much of it is just teams flooding their defence and opposition defenders follow.

Having players (multiple options) forward of the ball (yes, inside the forward fifty) is crucial. No team is going to leave Liam Jurrah on his own un-marked in the forward fifty.

Have the right structure and the rest becomes much easier. More targets, less chance for skill errors.

From the Melbourne website:

The thing is, a lot of turnovers are caused by the plan. Even Judd would have had trouble picking put teammates if all he saw up ahead was Eddie Betts surrounded by three Melbourne defenders. Conversely even Morton and Warnock can hit targets if they have Watts, Jurrah, Petterd, Green, Newton, Bennell, Bate or Maric to kick forward to.

Structure is the key and requires no skill from the players. The beauty is it can be rectified week to week, or even quarter to quarter, however since round 1, 2007 it has been a major issue for Melbourne.

But only now are most people starting to pick up on it.

Agree! Over possessing the football on a night of slippery conditions is a formula for disaster! In regards to "beating the press" 1. Keep some forwards in the forward line.2.Move the ball quickly to a couple of your best kicking options around the half back area. 3.Kick the ball over the press and back your forward to beat his opponent.

Bailey seems to be a very stubborn coach and I personally believe his days are numbered as MFC coach.I belive he has done a good job in developing the group but is not a great match day coach.I'm nor sure what influence the assistant coaches have but they must also shoulder some of the blame.

I would hate to be a forward playing for MFC at the moment!

[Akum 2,660]

Great thread, lots of constructive suggestions which have a few things in common:

* Running off the ball, whether towards the ball carrier, into spaces, or in predetermined patterns

* Minimising handling of the ball - most teams that beat the press kick far more than they handball. The flood was beaten by teams like the Bulldogs who had a number of midfielders with good disposal, especially by foot, and who would run hard all night. The forward press requires a similar set of skills, but from defenders rather than mids. On the other hand, once you get out past the forward press, a goal is pretty much wide open, so the rewards of beating the press are high.

* Being prepared to kick to a contest if necessary, because it has been predetermined what the players in the contest will do (hit it either over the boundary or out the back to runners if the kick is down the guts - we actually have players who can do this well).

* Above all, some sort of team structure (preferably a number of options) where there are designated targets and the kicker knows who they are and where they're going to be, without having to first look for them and find them, and the designated targets know where they need to make position. Th best example of this is Collingwood taking the ball around the boundary on the "fat" side in a chain - each player knows there is a team-mate running into the next space, so as long as they keep the ball moving, they know exactly the space they need to kick to and can do it without having to look up. In other words, the time taken for decision-making - to look for team-mates, decide upon a target and try to get it to them - is taken out of the equation.

It means that the emphasis is on team play, team structures, and thus minimising decision-making. This is why it takes time to get it right (and IMHO we made a bad strategic mistake by choosing for so long not to focus on team structures for the sake of "player development", while everybody else was spending off-season time perfecting their team structures). If bad decisions & turnovers are being made repeatedly and by different players, it means the team plans either aren't in place or aren't working because they don't know what they have to do.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

What you have described is exactly what we are trying to do, and what other teams do too. (I call it HIGH POSSESION HIGH TURNOVER FOOTBALL)

My problem with it is that for every disposal (dinky kicks to 15-20m away) there is the potential for A. a poor disposal B. a fumble. That's TWO opportunities to stuff it up for every movement of the ball.

Simply get the ball into the hands of a player in a bit of space and PROTECT THAT PLAYER.

If the opposition 'spread' to set up a zone it will play into our hands as we will have more players around the ball. If they 'rush' the ball carrier and his support it will open up space behind the rushing opposition players for our players further up the ground to lead into.

It's not Rocket Science, just minimal possesion for maximum gain.

Go Dees

understandable, and yes i have just stated how the successful teams get through the oppositions forward presses, and their style of play, but that is how they are winning their matches.

run and carry is a viable option, but you need to get into the space, which is constricted by the forward press, and thus the "dinky kicks", handballs, and the switches create this space, if you run into the forward press you turn the ball over, and that is why the possesion football is used, to slowly drag players out of position and then to take advantage of the space.

WHY WE HAVE NOT BROKE THE ZONE:

-Laziness, not all players are wanting to do the hard work to get into space.

-Bate, Jurrah, Newton, Maric, Petterd, Morton, are all decent players, but like to run half hearted leads with their hands in the air. run at the ball carrier hard and fast, turn around and do it again, this is how the space is also created, at the moment i think our players just want the reward without the effort, and this is why Jack Watts is slowly becoming my favourite player, he continually runs at the ball carrier, whether or not they pass it to him, and then he runs just as hard to repeat the lead, we are seriously lacking this.

-[censored] poor disposal, hitting targets is the key, mind you we are missing several key disposal players, yet at an afl level nearly every 15-20m kick should hit a target, this is seen especially through, collingwood, geelong, hawthorn, they rarely miss the short kick, gaining meterage, until all that is left is the long option.

KICK OUTS ON THE WEEKEND:

-stoppage creating, which is all well and good, but seeing as carlton are the best stoppage team in the league (and if they arent, they are top 2-3) it lead to a bit of trouble, but it also meant that we had less goals kicked on us off the turnover from kickouts, and it was a more man on man play from there, having said that it was predictable, and resulted in a sydney esque style of game.

-mind you, we were missing, tapscott, grimes, davey, garland, all who took kick outs while playing meaning we had to try something different.