THE HOUSE THAT DEAN BUILT

[Demonic Ascent 0]

How do you know how well our assistant coaches perform?

Because I watch the team play every week.

[BAMF 3,920]

Because I watch the team play every week.

So do I. So does everyone on this site. Still doesn't give us any insight into who is a good assistant coach and who isn't.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Swallow said on the footy show that if you let Melbourne play on and give them time and space they run all over you, once they tightened the screws, applied pressure, won contested footy it was curtains. Brereton said we have too many players including our captain who offer one effort and then sit on their heels. Darcy said on the coverage that whilst understanding that we were playing with 2 men down, there were no players who were prepared to gut run to spread and provide an option when we have the ball, or to run back and take their position in the zone when we dont have the ball.

This paragraph sums us up pefectly for mine, and this is what must be addressed. These were the questions I had after last week. Had we really turned the corner ar would we fail to run again when pressure was applied by a competent football side.

[Supermercado 2,682]

RENOVATORS DELIGHT

[Demonic Ascent 0]

So do I. So does everyone on this site. Still doesn't give us any insight into who is a good assistant coach and who isn't.

So you've seen us play for the last 3 years and no improvement in the structure of our forward line but you can't tell if Mahoney (who I think has been our forward coach for that entire time) is a good assistant or not?

[Guest 36DD]

So Bailey's the best coach since Norm Smith it's just that the players are too lazy to carry out his infallible plans? Come on. I'll admit there are certain players who should be ashamed of some of the performances they put in but at the end of the day 1) it is the coaches job to ensure the players get the best out of themselves and 2) its easier to replace the coach than to replace 38 players.

you obviously subscribe to the external locus of control theory, that everyone bar yourself is responsible for your success or failure. absolute rubbish, i dont know if Bailey is the best coach since norm smith, what i do know is that when Melbourne are mentally switched on and willing to do the hard things they can challenge anyone in the competition. to quote another melbourne great, the legendary RDB "if its going to be, its up to me".

I'll try just to break it down somewhat, say for example Jack Grimes is doing a three km time trial during the preseason. Grimes obviously has previously set a personal best for the time trial, so Grimes has a choice, does he choose to push through the pain to beat his PB or does he coast, Bailey and no coach for that matter can influence that, it's Grimes' decision to do so, driven by a competitive nature and a want to get better and succeed.

Does that make sense???

Edited May 15, 2011 by 36DD

[felixdacat 459]

THE HOUSE THAT 'DEAN' BUILT

Essendon finally squeezed 53 games out of Dean before they realised there was no more improvement. It certainly wasn't 200 games but then I wish I had just got on the Dees list let alone play one game. So I congratulate Dean on his efforts, he'll look back with some pride.

Dean has some 67 games as Melbourne coach. Yes I believe we have squeezed out of him pretty well all there is. Week in week out we blast players for their inept performance. This week the weakest excuse was injuries. Unfortunately that is only part of the story, the buck most always stop somewhere. And that is Deans desk.

A 70 point turn around yesterday against one of the lowest teams in the league, after a quarter of dominance is absolutely absurd. It says there is something drastically wrong, not on the strength of yesterday's game alone but because flawed patterns appeared once again.

This is the house that Dean built.

Into his fourth year no one else carries as much responsibility as Dean does.

He was given free reign to build a complete list as he chose, from tanking to cutting, this is his list. Very few coaches ever get such a choice.

He cut hard at the top end following a formula that said premiership teams must have players with certain numbers of games in them irrespective of readiness. This philosophy meant that not only did players not quite good enough to get cut but the experienced competent players also went before they were real liabilities. It meant we cut deep into leadership. It overlooked the value and need of a group of leaders to teach the younger brigade. The result is that we are so vulnerable at times that we are inept.

We understand his strength and excitement at time of appointment was his platform that he was a development coach. I still fail to see in what way he develops players any better than any other coach.

We criticise lapses in tackling, hardness etc, but the task of the coach to get into the minds of players so that they perform consistently close to their optimum separates the average coaches from the elite. What an elusive quality, but 67 games has shown us that Dean does not have it.

What is at least as important and I really think more important is the way the game has changed to be a systems game. Team performance is more important than ever. I've never heard anybody – from supporters to media – speak of Dean as having any significant skill in coping at this level. It's not simply developing a game plan, it's about one's ability to constantly read the ever evolving and changing plans of the opposition and counter attack. Sorry Dean, it's just not there.

As I began, this is the team Dean built. He's done a job but the total picture says there is nothing more in the tank. We might squeeze up to 80 games out of him. That will depend on the clubs administration, I doubt they will. I doubt there would be more than a hand full at the club, admin or supporters who would be prepared to entrust this young group to even two more years of Dean. It's too much of a risk. He made choices that really required 7 plus years to see if it would work. He has not made the progress that justifies it. And the club cannot afford the time.

53 games as a player, 70 odd games as coach. Well done Dean I envy the career you were able to squeeze out of yourself.

Well I don't know about you but I reckon the club should give him 15 more games before they make a decision, after all his record this year is 3W 3L 1D it will be interesting to see how it all pans out at seasons end. So until that happens I prefer to support him wholeheartedly until then.

Also I think you are giving coaches too much credit, yes they are influential but their influence is limited to what they can control and in the end the players are the ones who can directly influence a game.

I also think that the 7 plus year plan is what the club needed at the time he was appointed, he was appointed in 2008 amongst off field drama of debts and CEO resignations and sacking. He is rebuilding the team. When you rebuild a team it takes time for example

Geelong at the end of 1999 appoints Mark Thompson as head coach in 2000 they finish 5th on the ladder but get knocked out by Hawthorn in the finals. 2001 they finish 12th, 2002 finish 9th and 2003 finish 12th. During these 3 years they recruit heavily ( Paul Chapman, Gary Ablett, Jr., Jimmy Bartel, James Kelly and Joel Corey) 2004 finish 4th and 2005 finish 6th 2006 finish 10th 2007 - 2009 they reach the GF and win 2 out of 3.

We are in year 3 of a rebuild that will take time, whether Bailey is hear to see the end result remains to be seen. Interestingly they say what turned a good side Geelong to be an elite side was not the coach but a disgruntled player Paul Chapman who questioned the culture of the player's accountability for each other as a team, this then was backed up by the coach and led to an honest team assessment of themselves as players. The next week Geelong thrashed Richmond by 157 then went on to to win the next 15 games straight.

But from your post I see you have made your mind up on what to do with Bailey I just reckon you maybe pulling the trigger a wee bit early

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Things get pretty bad when your best afield, Chip Frawley says post match that "we gave in". That is quite damning.

Btw, when was the last time you saw a Melbourne player vomiting on the ground or sidelines from having run their guts out???

Chip pushed himself up the ground a lot and tried to take on the responsibility of running the lines and taking risks probably because there were few others willing to do it. A Collingwood supporting mate of mine sitting with me was also able to recognise this.

This is damning in itself. Looking purely at the coach or individual players won't be the answer. Our psyche needs to change in it's entirity. When physical pressure is applied our players lose confidence in themselves and stop backing thier team-mates. At this juncture we are mentally soft and frigid.

[daisycutter 28,727]

to quote another melbourne great, the legendary RDB "if its going to be, its up to me".

Please, if quoting get it right. "If it is to be it is up to me"

10 2-letter words

[Sir Why You Little 35,322]

you obviously subscribe to the external locus of control theory, that everyone bar yourself is responsible for your success or failure. absolute rubbish, i dont know if Bailey is the best coach since norm smith, what i do know is that when Melbourne are mentally switched on and willing to do the hard things they can challenge anyone in the competition. to quote another melbourne great, the legendary RDB "if its going to be, its up to me".

I'll try just to break it down somewhat, say for example Jack Grimes is doing a three km time trial during the preseason. Grimes obviously has previously set a personal best for the time trial, so Grimes has a choice, does he choose to push through the pain to beat his PB or does he coast, Bailey and no coach for that matter can influence that, it's Grimes' decision to do so, driven by a competitive nature and a want to get better and succeed.

Does that make sense???

Good Post. The Players need to take the brunt of responsibility for yesterday. As soon as the pressure was applied we put the white flag up.

No matter what Bailey or the Assistants say to the players, they cannot force a player to go through the pain barrier. That is why Chris Judd (and Luke Ball) can be considered elite, because they push themselves weekly.

Yesterdays game was a mirror of the Hawthorn game, except we got going in the first Q rather than the second. But we completely folded when challenged.

I blame the players for that, they're the guys out there. That is exactly why we need a Captain.

[Guest 36DD]

Please, if quoting get it right. "If it is to be it is up to me"

10 2-letter words

apologies good sir

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

Well I don't know about you but I reckon the club should give him 15 more games before they make a decision, after all his record this year is 3W 3L 1D it will be interesting to see how it all pans out at seasons end. So until that happens I prefer to support him wholeheartedly until then.

Also I think you are giving coaches too much credit, yes they are influential but their influence is limited to what they can control and in the end the players are the ones who can directly influence a game.

I also think that the 7 plus year plan is what the club needed at the time he was appointed, he was appointed in 2008 amongst off field drama of debts and CEO resignations and sacking. He is rebuilding the team. When you rebuild a team it takes time for example

Geelong at the end of 1999 appoints Mark Thompson as head coach in 2000 they finish 5th on the ladder but get knocked out by Hawthorn in the finals. 2001 they finish 12th, 2002 finish 9th and 2003 finish 12th. During these 3 years they recruit heavily ( Paul Chapman, Gary Ablett, Jr., Jimmy Bartel, James Kelly and Joel Corey) 2004 finish 4th and 2005 finish 6th 2006 finish 10th 2007 - 2009 they reach the GF and win 2 out of 3.

We are in year 3 of a rebuild that will take time, whether Bailey is hear to see the end result remains to be seen. Interestingly they say what turned a good side Geelong to be an elite side was not the coach but a disgruntled player Paul Chapman who questioned the culture of the player's accountability for each other as a team, this then was backed up by the coach and led to an honest team assessment of themselves as players. The next week Geelong thrashed Richmond by 157 then went on to to win the next 15 games straight.

But from your post I see you have made your mind up on what to do with Bailey I just reckon you maybe pulling the trigger a wee bit early

Well said.

[Harrisonrules 273]

Weed out the deadwood....remainder of the season will determine who gets shown the door...those who stand up we hang onto...i'll get the ball rolling

Bate and/or Dunn

Whilst I am relatively happy with Bailey thus far he will also have to prove he does not fall into the "deadwood" category.

8 wins for me this season was my pass mark, I never bought into this finals, too early in our development.

8 wins with our draw was a backward movement. Eight wins will put us about 4th bottom. At the beginning of the year it was a gimmie. We were talking about 6th to 8th.

St. K - Etihad ..........?

Car at G ..............?

Ess at G ..............?

Coll at G ............?

Free at G .............?

Rich at G ............win

Dogs at Etihad .......?

Port at Tio ...........Win

Haw at G .............?

Cats at Skill ........Loss

Carl at G ............?

Eagles at Etihad ......?

Rich at G ...........?

Suns at G ...........Win

Port at AAMI ..........Win

That gives us 6.5. I expect a couple more spirited wins. Meaningful progress would be 12.

[Harrisonrules 273]

Just got sledge hammer out there mate!

I was a brickie in a previous life

[daisycutter 28,727]

8 wins with our draw was a backward movement. Eight wins will put us about 4th bottom. At the beginning of the year it was a gimmie. We were talking about 6th to 8th.

St. K - Etihad ..........?

Car at G ..............?

Ess at G ..............?

Coll at G ............?

Free at G .............?

Rich at G ............win

Dogs at Etihad .......?

Port at Tio ...........Win

Haw at G .............?

Cats at Skill ........Loss

Carl at G ............?

Eagles at Etihad ......?

Rich at G ...........?

Suns at G ...........Win

Port at AAMI ..........Win

That gives us 6.5. I expect a couple more spirited wins. Meaningful progress would be 12.

Maths please! 3.5 + 4 = 7.5

[Harrisonrules 273]

Well said.

Its an argument worth considering. I've heard it said before. Yes I've made my considered decision. Harsh as it may seem. If you want to wait for 15 more games and opt for 7 years so be it. You not alone. But neither am I. Whatever I'll be still there in 7 years Edited May 15, 2011 by Harrisonrules

[Guest 36DD]

8 wins with our draw was a backward movement. Eight wins will put us about 4th bottom. At the beginning of the year it was a gimmie. We were talking about 6th to 8th.

St. K - Etihad ..........?

Car at G ..............?

Ess at G ..............?

Coll at G ............?

Free at G .............?

Rich at G ............win

Dogs at Etihad .......?

Port at Tio ...........Win

Haw at G .............?

Cats at Skill ........Loss

Carl at G ............?

Eagles at Etihad ......?

Rich at G ...........?

Suns at G ...........Win

Port at AAMI ..........Win

That gives us 6.5. I expect a couple more spirited wins. Meaningful progress would be 12.

It really all depends on which Melbourne team turns up on the day don't it? Thats why I reckon this year you have Gee and Coll ahead of everyone, then you have the Blues and Hawthorn and you can throw a blanket over the rest down to Brisbane and GCS. I think we are battling with Ess, Syd, WCE, Fre, Rich, Dogs, North, Adel and Saints. If we bring intensity and passion we can beat all those sides, if not we will get rolled.

[BAMF 3,920]

So you've seen us play for the last 3 years and no improvement in the structure of our forward line but you can't tell if Mahoney (who I think has been our forward coach for that entire time) is a good assistant or not?

Look at the players in the forward line. Petterd, Watts, Jurrah, Wonnamerri, Newton, Maric. I doubt there is 200 games between them.

Last years stats show that when we got the ball inside the 50 we scored quite well from our opportunity's.

Besides. I believe its more the quality of the midfield and the delivery provided that is more of an issue.

I'm not saying that Mahoney is a good assistant. I have no idea. But neither do you. I would be surprised if anyone here would be involved in the club enough to know.

[Rogue 585]

Eight wins will put us about 4th bottom. At the beginning of the year it was a gimmie. We were talking about 6th to 8th.

I wasn't, and I was hardly Robinson Crusoe.

[Deeflated 0]

Things are not looking good with some terrible performances but I want to see more before I make judgements on the coach and the FD.

Anyone calling for Bailey's head in the next month are wasting their time. No matter what results we turn up it’s not going to happen. I personally think he'll last the year, if not close to it.

Having said that we're about to enter round 9 and we've put in 1.5 good performances to date(Crows & Swans). 4 years in to the tenure I think we’ve seen enough to start asking questions.

Can I ask anyone have you ever seen a team surrender so meekly like we did in the 3rd & 4th quarter on Saturday? We’ve cut the experienced ‘dead wood’ and put games into kids, meanwhile breeding a culture of failure and excuses.

And some say don’t blame the coach, the players need to be responsible. Well the coach sculpted this list over 4 years so you reap what you sow.

[Striker475 696]

My 'fair and reasonable' expectation was (and still is, although becoming more doubting of it by the day) ten wins.

To put this in perspective, how I notched them up come the start of the season...

Sydney @ G - WIN

Brisbane @ G - WIN

GC @ Gabba - WIN

Adel @ G - WIN

North @ ES - win?

Coll @ G - win? (based off last year + we always turn up vs the Filth)

Freo @ G - win?

Rich @ G - WIN

Port @ TIO - WIN

WCE @ ES - win?

GC @ G - WIN

Port @ AAMI - win?

The caps being expected wins, the lowers being wins that were quite possible but not necessarily expected. Throw in a win somewhere else as a sign of improvement (against, say, Hawthorn, the Dogs etc) for ten wins (assuming half of the possibles + the improvers win got up).

I know it's still possible, but if we keep playing how we are, christ.

[Ned 156]

I really can't get enough of a handle on Bailey to say he must go. We have an inexperienced team and most people would say that tends to result in inconsistent performances. That I guess speaks in Bailey's favour. The problem is, check out Essendon. A basketcase last year and now playing solid football after the introduction of a high quality coaching group.

My suspicion is that this year's going to be a writeoff. I don't think you can reappoint a coach if after four years nothing has really happened. New blood will be needed. I now doubt Malthouse will come to Melbourne. He'll want revenge on Eddie for kicking him out and will take Carlton. It would be a shorter journey getting them up to challenge than it would be with Melbourne. I don't see Paul Roos coaching after just one year out.

Ruling out those two I don't see many options. I reckon Ross Lyon has talent but he's contracted. Eade isn't worth it. Neither is Clarkson. Chocko has had his day and Laidley is a twerp.

The only answer to me is to do what Essendon did -- get Garry Lyon and get someone, perhaps Roos, to act as a senior assistant. Go for a massive funding drive to pay for what is needed. We also need to recruit a couple of champions. Open the cheque book and try to lure a Jimmy Bartel or a Goddard. Someone who can set a gold standard for a young group.

It feels like we're flailing about. I really hope the administration is working hard figuring out the next move. In a way, tanking for draft picks is the easy part. The next move requires something special.

[Kento80 83]

For my point of view, Bailey is gone. I do not think that he is the coach that we need to take us to a premiership. I also do not praise him for last week. I believe the players responded to media and public scrutiny and embarrassment. I also do not blame him for this week entirely. I feel he deserves equal measures of blame to the players. But all of that does not add up to KEEP. We may keep him till the end of next year, or we may keep him till next week. But either way, for mine he is gone, and wins or losses aren't going to change that opinion.

[rpfc 27,692]

And some say don’t blame the coach, the players need to be responsible. Well the coach sculpted this list over 4 years so you reap what you sow.

Another Melbourne supporter letting the players off the hook.

I know we don't want to get stuck into Green, Davey, et al. but they have been pathetic this season.

And I would argue that the players that Bailey has 'brought in' have been a frackload better than the 'senior' players he inherited.

Our list was in worse shape than I imagined, and we are still feeling the repercussions.

If it takes a Malthouse to get consistency from Green, Davey, et al, then fine.

But they do not get to be 'leaders' in that team because they clearly are not.

Edited May 15, 2011 by rpfc

[Dockett 32 1,213]

"Who is responsibile for choosing those players?"

Good question Harrison.

I don't think its the board.