Bate and Dunn

[Red Sox 2]

I though Matt Bate started ok yesterday with his presence but didn't do much more than this yesterday. Deserves at least another week IMO but he is a player that has many limitations in his game. No right foot, no turning circle etc.

Lynden Dunn just frustrates me. His continual want to gob off is painful to watch from a bloke that doesn't hurt the opposition enough and should therefore refrain from this. Some might say he provides an option in the ruck, this is a very flimsy argument and even yesterday, the game was dead when he was playing around in the middle.

Stef Martin I thought was very unlucky despite a bad game and a half and I'd like to see much more time invested in him than the other two. Park him deep forward and get him to crunch packs with the size he now is and get some more assistance to Jamar. Spencer I would also be happy to be given more time.

The forward line must start to function with Jurrah up the ground more often, Watts deep more often, Petterd leading up to the 50 line all day long and snipers like Wonna, Bennell and Sylvia ready to attack and keep the ball in there. Throw a Martin or Spencer deep at times also but the former two, Dunn and Bate IMO are and should be seen as depth and not the first choice.

It was good to see some differences with Jurrah floating further up the ground, Grimes starting in the middle and Watts parked deep inside 50 more. It was great to see Rick P in a Demon jumper rather than a Casey one!

How was he not in the side?

[DemonWA 3,521]

agree on most points, but i think bate is good for our forward line structure. Similar to why Millar gets a game at punt road, i think Bate should keep getting games for us as he is a more mature body who frees up Watts and Jurrah

[Mad_Melbourne 872]

agree on most points, but i think bate is good for our forward line structure. Similar to why Millar gets a game at punt road, i think Bate should keep getting games for us as he is a more mature body who frees up Watts and Jurrah

this is hardly true, they still played rutten on watts for a majority of the game and bate still did diddily squat, apart from that one time he layed a few tackles

personally though i like dunn, i feel that he is a good player, and is far more important to our squad than bate, and he adds a bit of menace to our squad.

[Mousey 47]

Was talking about it yesterday with my brother, agree with your points.

I think by years end its either Bate or Dunn in and even with the downfalls of Bate i would rather him in the side than Dunn.

Something just really irks me about Dunny haha Not sure about yesterday but this year has given away too many silly free kicks.

But yeah its an interesting and looking forward to see the one that steps up in the next week or so

Edited May 9, 2011 by mousey

[Lost Highway 31]

Stef Martin I thought was very unlucky despite a bad game and a half and I'd like to see much more time invested in him than the other two. Park him deep forward and get him to crunch packs with the size he now is and get some more assistance to Jamar. Spencer I would also be happy to be given more time.

Why do some still keep seeing potential in Martin that he hasn't got? Defence and spare ruck is his limited forte, not crashing packs, getting his own ball and turning with it in the forward line. He hasn't shown he can take marks in attack. Dunn, despite his 'frustrations', limitations and inconsistency, can play a role that provides some danger for the opposition defence; in this respect he is a much more menacing player than either Martin or Bate, who has become a one-trick pony. And not a very dazzling trick that is.

[Pates 9,537]

I definitely reckon Bate should get another go and the match committee has actually been give most players a couple of weeks rather than one go to make an impact. And i actually think the intent was there he just didn't have much luck going for him.

As for Dunn, I'm not 100% on what his role is in the side. I'm assuming he's a defensive forward that is meant to prevent run from the opposition running defenders. I think at some stage he will be pushed out of the side, possibly for Ricky P (who I can't work out why he's been out of the side for so long!).

[Geddy Lee 582]

I definitely reckon Bate should get another go and the match committee has actually been give most players a couple of weeks rather than one go to make an impact. And i actually think the intent was there he just didn't have much luck going for him.

Spot on Pates.

[Red Sox 2]

Why do some still keep seeing potential in Martin that he hasn't got? Defence and spare ruck is his limited forte, not crashing packs, getting his own ball and turning with it in the forward line. He hasn't shown he can take marks in attack. Dunn, despite his 'frustrations', limitations and inconsistency, can play a role that provides some danger for the opposition defence; in this respect he is a much more menacing player than either Martin or Bate, who has become a one-trick pony. And not a very dazzling trick that is.

You might have said the same about Jamar not so long ago. The change in Martin's body shows me that he is doing more to get himself across the line but we all know the saying, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Hopefully Stef Martin can add this physicality to his game and with the right mentor I think he could add to this team.

I think Dunn's role is more about the most dangerous defender and stopping them as opposed to any perceived danger he can create.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

What is "enough"?

It depends on the role the players are being asked to perform.

I think Bate's form was horrible, but he still performed a role for us and his place in our forward structure was integral to our success yesterday.

He's a limited footballer, with poor agility, no right foot and can't take a mark out in his hands or above his head.

In spite of all that, he's accomplished at the things he can do well, and until Howe or Cook grow and learn to hold his place in our structure, he still has a spot on our list based on yesterday's game.

Dunn has less limitations, but hasn't been performing his role, as Bate did.

Until he does, his spot in the side is shaky. Really, he should own that spot when you look at the alternatives.

[Guest watts04]

Interesting thread.

Perhaps atm they are scraping by but will there best be good enough when we are a good side???

[rpfc 27,633]

They are both at the same stage of their careers - a precarious stage.

We will see how they respond from here.

[PeterJames 46]

When I have listened to Paul Roos, the one thing that stood out to me was when they recruited players from other clubs the one thing he gave his players was a specific role. He had 22 players playing a specific role. I think this has been an issue at our club for a while. We have a lot of players playing various roles. Dunn is one that hassn't had a specific role, I think also why Green has been struggling is that I'm not certain of his role.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Neither have done "enough" so far (harsh on Bate considering he has only played one game), but I still think Dunn is a very important player for us at the moment. He showed in the 2nd half of last season that he can contribute, and hopefully he finds that form sooner rather than later.

However, he doesn't really have anyone at Casey that plays the same role that is putting pressure on his spot. BUT, if J Howe continues to improve, and if Dunn doesn't, I'm tipping that a swap of that nature could be on the cards.

I find it funny how we are crying out for tough/hardend players, and Dunn for mine fots that description well, but now there are question marks over his place in the team!

[timmyo64 44]

as for dunn mouthing off to players....well no one else does it and everyone here complains we don't give the opposition enough s%$t.. some ones gotta do it! it works as well, he has won many free kicks from players retaliating!

[Red Sox 2]

Neither have done "enough" so far (harsh on Bate considering he has only played one game), but I still think Dunn is a very important player for us at the moment. He showed in the 2nd half of last season that he can contribute, and hopefully he finds that form sooner rather than later.

However, he doesn't really have anyone at Casey that plays the same role that is putting pressure on his spot. BUT, if J Howe continues to improve, and if Dunn doesn't, I'm tipping that a swap of that nature could be on the cards.

I find it funny how we are crying out for tough/hardend players, and Dunn for mine fots that description well, but now there are question marks over his place in the team!

as for dunn mouthing off to players....well no one else does it and everyone here complains we don't give the opposition enough s%$t.. some ones gotta do it! it works as well, he has won many free kicks from players retaliating!

Only when your head goes over the ball, consistently, can you give it out as he does. He doesn't put it over the ball at all times. Would rather a Tapscott giving a knowing look after asserting physical contact rather than Dunns efforts.

Maybe I just have it in for him but am not much of a fan.

[Rogue 585]

Artie's post on Bate reflects my thoughts on him. Bate isn't in my best 22.

I find it funny how we are crying out for tough/hardend players, and Dunn for mine fots that description well

I think many Demonlanders disagree with you on this.

[rpfc 27,633]

I find it funny how we are crying out for tough/hardend players, and Dunn for mine fots that description well.

I disagree with you on this.

But seriously, the guy will jumper punch with anyone but I don't see true toughness (look at Trengove's pickup-hit-twirl-handoff in the last) from Dunn.

Just don't see it...

[Sir Why You Little 34,819]

As for Dunn, I'm not 100% on what his role is in the side. I'm assuming he's a defensive forward that is meant to prevent run from the opposition running defenders. I think at some stage he will be pushed out of the side, possibly for Ricky P (who I can't work out why he's been out of the side for so long!).

I am just watching the first Quarter now and there are at least 2 Beautiful kicks Dunn sends to well positioned forwards, who drop easy marks.

If they were taken and goals scored, Dunn would be spoken of in much higher regard...i think both Lynden & Matty Bate should be persevered with at this stage.

[timmyo64 44]

dunn has soem mongrel in him, which i think doesnt necessarily mean you go hard every contest. You just find a way to get into the opps minds, which he does well, anything players can do to put the opp of their game is fine with me! the fact he may not always go as hard yet still mouths off would probably annoy the [censored] out of them even more. most of the time frustrated players = bad game

[The Chazz 4,077]

Artie's post on Bate reflects my thoughts on him. Bate isn't in my best 22.

I think many Demonlanders disagree with you on this.

Happy for people to disagree! My opinion of Dunn is one that I have of Rivers. They would be irritating players to play against, as they always have an opinion on how their opponents are playing. While I agree that the jumper-punching isn't the same toughness like that shown by Trengove in the last(?) quarter, they are the first to jump in to any rough stuff. I think it is important that our team, which does have a lot of kids, know thre is that protection if required.

[dee-luded 2,958]

dunn has soem mongrel in him, which i think doesnt necessarily mean you go hard every contest. You just find a way to get into the opps minds, which he does well, anything players can do to put the opp of their game is fine with me! the fact he may not always go as hard yet still mouths off would probably annoy the [censored] out of them even more. most of the time frustrated players = bad game

Thats not what mongrel is. Redefining what mongrell is, Mongrel is what Rodney Grinter had, what mumbles Bailey gave. Mongrel is flattening someone in the act of playing the game. John and Ted Fidge, they had Mongrel. Earl Spalding and Strawbs O'Dwyer had it. Danny Hughes had it.

Sorry Dunny is a nice boy.

Giving Lip, is definately not mongrel.

[loges 6,225]

agree on most points, but i think bate is good for our forward line structure. Similar to why Millar gets a game at punt road, i think Bate should keep getting games for us as he is a more mature body who frees up Watts and Jurrah

Agree important for structure as long as he's not completely hopeless

[Rogue 585]

Happy for people to disagree! My opinion of Dunn is one that I have of Rivers. They would be irritating players to play against, as they always have an opinion on how their opponents are playing. While I agree that the jumper-punching isn't the same toughness like that shown by Trengove in the last(?) quarter, they are the first to jump in to any rough stuff. I think it is important that our team, which does have a lot of kids, know thre is that protection if required.

I don't think slagging off or jumper punching some guy after the ball has gone out of bounds is tough.

I think putting body on the line in contests and keeping your head up when you think a player might be coming in to spoil your attempted mark is tough.

[DemonoidNumber9 7]

Spot on Pates.

Agree with both of you. The Master played like he hadn't played senior footy in a long time. He lacked confidence. and in the 4th QTR really moved like a truck that had lost his conditioning.

But as most who only read the stats won't know. Bater was hard on the lead all day, and in some cases was 20-30ms in the clear only to have the ball butchered towards him or watched get kicked over his head to a contest.

He showed enough that the Match committee will give him another game!

[timmyo64 44]

Thats not what mongrel is. Redefining what mongrell is, Mongrel is what Rodney Grinter had, what mumbles Bailey gave. Mongrel is flattening someone in the act of playing the game. John and Ted Fidge, they had Mongrel. Earl Spalding and Strawbs O'Dwyer had it. Danny Hughes had it.

Sorry Dunny is a nice boy.

Giving Lip, is definately not mongrel.

better way to describe him would be as pest then? either way a pest is good! my point any players that get into the opps mind in a negative way is a bonus! don't care how they do it